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Leeghoofd

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  1. Introduction It's high time get more familiar with the newest Intel HEDT platform - LGA 2066 and X299 chipset. To be honest I hoped that some other overclockers, who were benching ROG X299 platform more often than I was able to or got access to more models of CPUs than I had, would share their extra knowledge so I could learn something extra to avoid rookie mistakes, but it's already 3 months from the launch and meanwhile I learned some tricks. Maybe they will learn something from me instead Rampage VI Apex The hero of this guide is Asus Rampage VI Apex edition motherboard which continues legacy of Apex line originating from Z270. Looks like from now on the highest model even in HEDT segment in naming/pricing is no longer the best option for LN2. Please remember that Rampage VI Extreme has only 8PIN EPS + 4PIN in contradiction to Rampage VI Apex (2x 8PIN EPS) and Extreme version doesn't support Kabylake-X CPUs, it means that some components from VRM are removed. Moreover Extreme has 8 DIMM design which is less effective for high memory overclocking. The main difference between SKLX and KBLX CPUs in terms of power design is of course FIVR, which motherboard vendors love and XOC community hates. Why there are two totally different points of view? It dates back to LGA 1150 times, vendors claimed from their point of view FIVR is great - easier to design a board, cheaper to produce and lower RMA rates cause FIVR doesn't stress VRM that much. Extreme overclockers hate it cause of two major things: ColdBootBug and ColdBug. I say it's life, we just have to adapt to less easy-going benching. So this time we have CB/CBB free KBLX CPUs and CB/CBB crippled SKLX CPUs on the same platform. In my honest opinion, in those times, sadly I have to say ColdBug is the only thing which might save XOC for a bit longer - eliminates Liquid Helium from the picture of rankings, which slowly is killing XOC for mainstream sockets and what is more important, is just the epic waste of rare resources of Mother Earth for a such simple hobby as XOC Sadly HWBOT or Intel are deaf for XOC ocers requests just to create separate LHE ranking not affecting point system. Photos This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. Sadly despite the current pricing policy, we won't find any useful accessories like OC Panel or even OC Socket! The more expensive boards are, the more RGB LEDs are soldered on the board, the less we are getting in terms of accessories The only extra OC tools are DMI pins posted below which will be analysed in the next chapter. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1187x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. XA edition board, when I retire and quit XOC it might be worth a small fortune This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. Legendary fixed (added fins) VRM Heatsink for which board was delayed in production for a few weeks. Good that final product works. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. Code poster with LN2 mode and Slow Mode, Pause switches, RSVD1 and RSVD2 for KBLX CBB options. We have also 4 dip switch for PCIE slots. We can also see voltage measurement points which are sometimes very useful. Sadly there are no memory DIMM channel dip switches, which were available in early ES boards. In some case pretty useful feature, but well we can live without it. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. CPU VRM looks strong - real 8 phase IOR Driver MOSFET This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. Under the back of the board, after removing heatsinks we have POS capacitors filtering and stabilizing voltage and capacitors which close signals for IOR Driver MOSFETs. Board looks like typical Apex-like ROG board. Design overall is very good, 4 DIMMs for the highest memory OC and 2x PS2 ports which I adore especially in legacy OS. Some love the "X" look, some can't see the "X" in this shape, some just don't care. Personally for me board can be even painted in Hello Kitty theme until it does it's job. Basic knowledge All basic knowledge, basic LN2 OC steps and functions, including instruction of soldering DMI pin are included in elmor's ROG Rampage VI Apex thread. You will also find software and bioses there. All pieces of information in this topic are just a supplement of basic knowledge. Binning boards The most inconvenient part for motherboard vendors. I have touched few pieces of R6A boards, earlier ES (so called by uncle Mad Tse - legendary TL's edition) and retail PCB, some of them seriously didn't like me (remember, wrong touch hurts for the whole life!). Basically easy to distinguish good OC sample from a bad one: a) using KBLX CPU + B DIE memories both AIR (note that you need decent IMC CPU + decent B DIE) If board boots Dual Channel 2x8 GB 4133 12-11-11 1T with manual settings in BIOS 49/50 6-4-64 RTLs/IOLs it means it's a good board. I played with one board which couldn't boot even on LN2 4133 12-11-11 settings. b) using SKLX CPU + B DIE memories both AIR (note you need decent IMC CPU + decent B DIE) If board boots Quad Channel 4x8 GB 4000 12-12-12 1T c) using KBLX CPU on LN2 if when going cold at some point of cooling down you will get 08 Code Post (means - no memory/channel detected) all the time you can try to clean LGA socket and memory DIMMs with aceton and dry board really well. If after his the next session you get also 08 problems - it means that or BGA soldering under the socket or traces inside PCB are cracked and during change of temperature (during cooling down) when materials, especially metals shrink, signals are lost. d) using SKLX CPU on LN2 if you are losing some memory channels it means the same - try to clean LGA socket and memory DIMMs with aceton and dry board really well. If after his the next session you get also 08 problems - it means that or BGA soldering under the socket or traces inside PCB are cracked and during change of temperature (during cooling down) when materials, especially metals shrink, signals are lost. Though you have to remember that even a good brand new sample can be easily degraded after even one LN2 session which I with other overclockers sadly experienced during Computex time. Though my home retail sample is very strong, so many sessions and runs smoothly! Seems like retail boards have very good quality. KBLX OVERCLOCKING Sadly looks like retail KBLX processors in shops are not scaling good on LN2. Note that all ES CPUs which have records are L633xxxx batches. Even earlier production week than only good LN2 scaling retails KBL LGA 1151 7700K L637xxxx-L640xxxx). The earliest 7740X retails CPUs are L652xxxx if I recollect correctly. Now I have bunch of retail L7xxxxxx batches which are not good in terms of IMC neither in terms of clocks, though I haven't checked that many. IMC Good 7740X IMC will be capable of doing 4133 12-11-11 supertight Copy Waza stable on AIR in Dual Channel (at SA/VCCIO up to 1.45v).Though in contrary to LGA 1151 platform, we can bin B DIE sticks in single channel (note that on Z270 single stick won't boot 4133 12-11-11, but in dual might even pass SPI32M). So that's a very good news, cause helps us to max out and bin our sticks one by one, even on LN2. At the current moment, KBLX is the best choice to bin B DIE. On good IMC in single channel using fully aircooled platform we can reach around 4200 12-11-11 supertight Copy Waza stable. For more we need to use LN2 on CPU. DMI PIN Why LGA 1151 CPU has DMI pad and why LGA 2066 CPU (almost two times more!) doesn't have DMI pad? The background story is that both platforms (LGA 1151 and LGA 2066) were at early development (when the most crucial decisions are made) close to each other. In the beginning of SKL LGA 1151 as we remember only top Asus ROG boards had DMI voltage control. Normally DMI voltage is (which is responsible for linking bus of PCIE) is linked to VCCIO, and that's how it is in official Intel's spec (similar situation to PLL Termination and Standby voltage), which all other vendors followed. ROG R&D managed to make separate lines for each voltage, which helped LN2 OC, especially for 3D (stability of PCIE) and eliminated ColdBootBug. When there was time for finishing pinout for the final version of KBLX LGA 2066 CPUs (at early stage of development), Intel R&D was asking mobo vendors what they can add/remove, what is crucial for their motherboards designs, ROG R&D decided to stay quiet about DMI pad being afraid that their secret might be somehow hijacked by other competitors if they say they need it. So finally Intel removed it from final specification of KBLX LGA 2066 CPU. After the fact when Intel learned the hard way that XOC needs this DMI voltage, it was too late to change the design, but Intel R&D showed the resistor on the back of the CPU which is responsible for DMI Voltage, so Asus created DMI pin which works just like simple trimpot mod - changes resistance. I love it and I hate it. I love the idea - it's seriously brilliant. I hate it cause it's very easy to damage DMI resistor on the back of the CPU. In order to avoid damaging your CPU try to mount it very carefully, pressing it at the angle to the edge of socket which is far away from DMI pin and then slowly lean back CPU into the socket. Sadly DMI pin has to give high pressure to the resistor, cause when going LN2, metals shrinks and with more soft pin there were issues of contact. If vendors were more sharing knowledge, we wouldn't have this problem. That's why we have to share our XOC tricks! Do I need DMI pin? With installed DMI pin you can control DMI voltage - and use RSVD2, which will eliminate CBB. So you need DMI pin to have no CBB. For 3D it's just enough to use high VCCIO (1.5-1.6v) on most CPUs. Without DMI pin average CBB will be around -160*C on R6A and on some CPUs there might be issues with 3D. What if I damage this DMI resistor on the back of CPU? Your CPU will show magical 00 on Code Poster, so some overclockers can be confused and thinking that they killed their CPU forever. When you change LN2 mode jumper to Enabled, then CPU should boot easy. LN2 mode changes much more things, than just unlocks higher voltages ranges in BIOS. There is some special Peter/Jon's/TL's magic behind it. It changes some autorules, signals, disables some parts of CPU like IGP and so on. So if CPU boots with LN2 mode but doesn't boot with normal settings, then just it's high time to resolder DMI resistor on CPU. I already did it few times and it's not so easy, but is possible. Don't forget to protect golden pads from tin to avoid shorts. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1440. LN2 TIPS FOR KBLX 1. Direct DIE (no IHS) seems to help a bit. 2. 4/8 threads max stable voltage for multithreaded benchmarks will be around 1.83v. 3. 2D like SuperPI or Pifast - around 1.925v. 4. Keep PLL Termination 1.65v or close to it. Cache frequency scales sadly with high PLL Termination voltage (1.7-1.8v even) but it's very easy way to damage CPU and degrade it hard. 5. If you have shutdowns (without restarts) during benchmark - it means Cache frequency is too high. 6. DMI voltage around 1.6v is fine (lower than on LGA 1151). 7. KBLX has more issues with thermalpaste cracking than normal KBL. 8. Running full out platform, without any heatsink on the board even with KPC Inferno backplate is fine. 9. KBLX ES CPUs tend to degrade a bit, just like KBL. SKLX OVERCLOCKING IMC Most CPUs will do 4000 12-12-12 Quad Channel on AIR. The problem is you need very strong B DIE. Pretty much any voltage over 1.90v is unstable for SKLX and Quad Channel. So actually you need 4x good sticks, which are stable 4000 12-12-12 around 1.85v for Geekbench 3/4. From my B DIE collection, where each stick on KBL/KBLX can run 4133 12-12-12 CopyWaza air, only few are able to do 4000 12-12-12 Geekbench in Quad Channel. Just use 4000 12-12-12 profile from BIOS pretests. It's pretty efficient. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. For AIR leave Transmitter and Receivers at AUTO, it will set around 1.35-1.45v values for 4000 divider and it's fully fine. Though good IMC CPU will do it with Transmitters around 1.2v. AUTO rule will raise it each time changing to higher frequency. Actually you can even lower Receivers up to 0.7v, it doesn't matter. But I tend to change all Transmitters and Receivers at the same time. For LN2 you will have to finetune it because of CBB issues. With auto rule values around 1.2-1.45v Transmitters on most CPUs CBB will be around -30-50*C which is easy to notice with strange codes on the poster: like 00, 67->AE, bd and so on, and strange sequence of booting. After changing Transmitters to 0.7v even at 4000 MHz on most CPU will work, and then instead of -30*C ColdBootBug we have around -90*C up to -100*C, close to ColdBug of CPU With cold IMC gets much stronger and so far all CPUs tested by me (around 10x SKLX cpus) were working great at 4000 MHz 12-12-12 with all Transmitters and Receivers at 0.7v at LN2. Of course you can try 1.0v, 1.1v and so on. Only one 7800X couldn't do more than 3400 MHz at any combination of all voltages on AIR and LN2. To go to the settings firstly go to Extreme Tweaker -> Dram Timing Control -> IO Control and go down in the tab. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. SKLX NEW VOLTAGES Most of the voltages are pretty standard well known from FIVR CPUs or described in elmor's guide. But we have special AUX and AUX2 options. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. Those are "throttle" voltages. AUX is the actual voltage, AUX2 is booting voltage. For booting those don't do anything. On LN2 we can use up to 3.1V. AUTO value on LN2 depends from BIOS, on older versions I have seen 2.7-3.0v set by AUTO. The higher voltage, the less throttling in theory. That is very tricky part. In theory setting voltages very low should help you gain extra MHz but with the cost of bad efficiency. I noticed small influence of voltages for ColdBug and stability, though I haven't encountered throttling issues. For me best values were around 1.5-2.2v. I think it's worth playing with. Another new voltage is PLL reference voltage which is actually just a "boost" line for all FIVR rails. Some CPUs might have for instance problem to boot with +500 uncore voltage offset but will boot with +400 uncore voltage with +100 PLL reference "boost" which will be pretty much same as +500 uncore voltage. Note that PLL reference voltage boosts all rails together - vcore, vcache and so on. SKLX DELID, THERMAL PASTE, IHS VS DIRECT DIE Do we need to delid CPUs? Yes, some CPUs have better stock paste, some CPUs have worse factory contact. The more cores - the higher boost in frequency comparing to not delidded CPUs. On 7800X there is actually no gain or almost no gain, on 7820X around 30-40 MHz, on 7900X around 50 MHz. It's also much more reliable and stable. The problem is that paste, even KPC, Grizzly sometimes crack with -11x*C on those CPUs, especially when benchmark crashes (difference of temperatures). It's easy to check if paste is fine or not via Core Temp. For 7900X at temp. around -80*C-85*C with clocks 5.6/5.7 GHz @ 1.5v during Cinebench R15 all sensors should show -5*C, if some cores are getting readings -2, -1 it means our paste "half cracked", it lowered it's efficiency a lot. We will notice in such case higher CB. It goes in steps like that first boot, first bench - CB -105*C, reboot, and CB will be -109*C or -112*C, moving CB means crack of paste. If you use Grizzly, it will half crack easier than KPC on SKLX, but will regain most of efficiency when warm up to around -20*C. With KPC paste you should warm up much more in order to regain some efficiency, but from my experience KPC paste will crack after few runs, when Grizzly cracks mostly after 1-2 runs. By runs I mean crashed runs, when platform fails, so there is big differences between load and idle and thermal interface cracks. That's why many unexperienced OCers had sometimes lower clocks with delidded SKLX than stock factory paste and IHS. Is Direct DIE better or same or worse? For both, small DIE (up to 10 cores) and big DIE (up to 18 cores) we should use direct die without IHS. To protect DIE from dying, we should use a shim. The difference in clocks is not that very big (just few extra MHz), but temperature control is much better. With IHS it's normal to go around 5-10*C below Cold Bug during heavy benchmarks like Cinebench, then we can easily got CB in idle if we don't warm up on time. With Direct Die temperature control range is much easier. Moreover from my tests Direct DIE is the only case when I can bench for hours the same frequency with the same Cold Bug limit without issues of Thermal Paste cracking or "half cracking". Though the key is of course special - proper mounting + the thermal paste itself. Each batch of thermal paste is different. I suggest to experiment and think outside of the box. I had some interesting results with some experiments, including LM and I am still gathering the data. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1365x1024. Memory Frequency versus efficiency Pretty much on Asus with build in 4000 profile we have good efficiency. It's scaling really well at each frequency without extra effort. Tests based on AIDA64 READ. All timings like below: 3200 MHz DDR4 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1080. 3400 MHz DDR4 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1080. 3466 MHz DDR4 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1080. 3600 MHz DDR4 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1080. 3733 MHz DDR4 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1080. 4000 MHz DDR4 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1080. RTLs/IOLs Basically so far each time I failed to set IOLs and RTLs by hand, each combination at once CC error on Code Post, maybe Intel's Management Engine is still a bit immature or CPU microcode. On KBLX it works, on SKLX doesn't. Examples for 4000 12-12-12 settings. The only thing we can control is DRAM IO Comp, we can loose it or tighten it. Note that Value by hand will always boot one step lower than manual value, so if we want to get 17 -> we input 18, if 18 -> we input 19 and so on. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. We can stabilize booting RTLs by manual RTL initial, it will mostly lower per 1 (from 51 to 50) and some IOLs from 11 to 8 and from 8 to 6. But it's pretty much it. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. Do we really need that? Not really, some small differences will be mostly visible in Geekbench, which is the only benchmark for X299 scaling with 4000 memories. For all other 3600 is enough. Ofc SPI and AIDA64 will show big differences, but this platform is not for legacy benchmarks, more like 3D tank LN2 TIPS FOR SKLX 1. Remember to set proper Transmitters in order to eliminate nasty CBB by AUTO rule for high frequency memories. 2. Avoid Input Voltage at 2.4v - for me it was just an instant death of a CPU in 5 minutes Those CPUs are much more fragile than X99 "tanks" (I have never killed any X99 CPU, seriously, unbelievable I know considering my reputation ). 3. For optimal memory frequency use 1.45v SA/VCCIO. 4. Follow thermal paste/direct DIE tips. 5. If efficiency is bad - try higher INPUT voltage, I encountered many times throttling because of too low INPUT voltage. 6. If benchmark shuts down in the middle it means - it's too hot. 7. Up to 10 core CPU (I haven't tried BIG DIE SKLX on R6A) naked VRM is fine, but better put a fan on it. Considering how VRM is hot overall, with SKLX I wouldn't recommend using KPC Inferno (especially that, temperature around -110*C is not that hard for motherboard). 8. If you get shutdown during benchmark - mesh is too high/too low vcache. 9. If you have worse efficiency with higher mesh - too low vcache or input or too hot. 10. Some CPUs froze in OS during setting high clocks, my 7800X couldn't have set 59 multi by OS software at all, I tried like 30 times, but I could boot at 5.9 GHz to OS and run directly Cinebench R15 with good efficiency. If you don't want to keep temperature control, just use Slow Mode. But pretty much it's very easy for those CPUs to boot 5.9-6 GHz directly to OS. 13. Don't forget about pretested, good B DIE for SKLX. I noticed that some sticks don't like SKLX at all. 14. You can play with AUX voltage in terms of throttling. But sometimes at the total limit, it will throttle because of unstable CPU and at some point we have to stop pushing for more. LN2 score on my not bad 7820X with pretty good efficiency in R15, showing that board looks pretty solid This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1920x1080. For now it's all. I might update the topic in the future with some more data or more scores. I hope for those enthusiasts who plan to push SKLX on LN2, some information here might be useful. Enjoy
  2. Hi guys, with this Guide you will be able to use your usb3.0 card, or the integrated card 3.1 AsMedia on your Board! First of all, what you need: Z170AsMedia.zip or Z270 Asmedia Drivers ASMedia_xHCI_Host_Controller_Driver_v1.16.38.1.zip beim Filehorst - filehorst.de (Thanks nachtfalke) TODRIVERS.zip Usb 2.0 4port Hub Insert these file inside one ssd drive that later you will attach to the pc with xp already installed, (extract these zip file in these ssd!); Enable in BIOS AsMedia USB 3.0 3.1 Controller; Install your copy of WindowsXP by following the guide that you can find on this forum; When XP is installed, you can use only mouse and keyboard on usb BLACK ports(perhaps in the blue too, but it doesnt matter); Copy the file USBD.SYS that you find inside d:\TODRIVERS folder inside C:\Windows\System32\Drivers (this file is an original file of Windows XP, that is installed by Os in automatic when XP finds an USB 2.0 Port......but in Skylake this doesnt happen, so this is the FIX); Now we are ready to install the driver AsMedia, first of install driver is better attach now the USB HUB to the RED USB PORT(this it will be the only port that it will work after the next restart); Install the driver from Device Manager like that picture, Asmedia is the first Usb Controller; Choose the folder d:\Asmedia when driverupdate ask where is the driver; Continue to install the driver for USB ROOT HUB from the same location; Do the same for the GENERIC USB HUB; Before restart, attach the usb keyboard/mouse and one usbdrive to the hub usb, and check if they work......if they work, u will reboot and remember to remove the secondary SSD! Check if usb HUB is Working! DONE!!!! ------------------------- For use another controller usb3.0 pcie instead integrated AsMedia, you need only to FIX the file USBD.SYS....... so copy this file inside c:\windows\system32\drivers and install USB driver from device manager or with the exefile of the driver! DONE Video https://www.facebook.com/BarboneNet/...9593608491519/ P.S. this guide works on ASROCK OC Formula and MSI aswell! Two Z270 versions of XP OS…….use the old tutorial for the fine tuning after restoring! Download Xp 32bit for SuperPi32m Download XP 64bit for 3DMark01SE Enjoy Barebonenet
  3. As i was playing with the Maximus VIII Gene and tweaking ram i came to notice how things work regarding training and having the right RTL/IO depending on frequency and CAS latency. It is important to understand that having properly set RTL/IO will also gain stability versus non optimized training and of course give you that small amount of performance needed to beat damn bullant's 32M run Having said that i tested the following method on basically all memory IC's on the market and found out that it works good . What have i done here ? Basically i found how to set the proper RTL/IO combination that fits given frequency/cas timings. First of all,Skylake is a much more nicer platform then X99 on DDR4 so if you are a memory fanatic this suits you perfectly.There are enough secondary and tertiary and also RTL variables to make you spend days tweaking and discovering new scenaries . Asus did a good job with Maximus VIII Gene as always and the motherboard behaviour in memory fiddling is great. Hardware used: Core i7 6700K Retail,nothing extraordinary Maximus VIII Gene 0004 Bios Kingston 3466C16 ES Kit(AFR) The reason of using AFR was that besides being my best memory it accomodates a larger range of CAS/Frequency,especially the ones that we are interested of,meaning tight CL of 11,12,13 Now what is this topic really about.In the RTL IOL CONTROL you will find beside the usual RTL/IOL settings also two new areas : IO Latency OFFSET IO Latency RFR Delay. Ofc with 2 tabs used for the 2 memory channels. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. How does this work: Say you plug your good old Hynix MFR and aim for DDR4-3000 C11. All set and go the usual RTL/IOL for this will be 44/45/6/6 In order to keep this values and avoid bad training you might want to set RTL Initial Value to lowest value that can boot and you will be good. If you are not happy you can improve this.How ? Move from standard IO Latency offset of 21/21 one value higher.Apply and reboot.You will notice tighter RTL/IO.Repeat this until you fail to POST.Go back one step and you have the tightets RTL/IOL combination that your system can handle at this scenario.In my case : 43/44/1/1 . Now all you have to do is type manually the values and you are good to bench. Test Scenarios : CAS 11 : DDR4-3000 C11 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 44/45/6/6 DDR4-3000 C11 IO latency= 24==>44/45/2/2 DDR4-3000 C11 IO Latency =25==>43/44/1/1 DDR4-3200 C11 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 45/56/3/13 (Bad training this is the case when stability fails because of missed training) DDR4-3200 C11 IO latency 24==> 45/46/2/2 DDR4-3333 C11 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 54/47/15/6 (again missed training) DDR4-3333 C11 Auto set RTL/IOL = 46/47/7/6 Standard settings DDR4-3333 C11 IO Lantecy 23 = 46/47/4/3 CAS 12 : DDR4-3333 C12 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 48/49/7/6 DDR4-3333 C12 IO Latency 23 = 48/49/4/3 DDR4-3466 C12 Auto set RTL/IOL = 48/51/6/8 DDR4-3466 C12 IO Latency = 48/49/3/3 DDR4-3600 C12 Auto set RTL/IOL = 53/50/11/6 DDR4-3600 C12 IO Latency 23 = 49/50/5/4 CAS 13 : DDR4-3333 C13 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 49/53/6/8 DDR4-3333 C13 IO Latency 23 = 50/51/4/3 DDR4-3466 C13 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 50/51/6/6 DDR4-3466 C13 IO Latency 23 = 50/51/3/3 DDR4-3600 C13 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 51/54/7/8 DDR4-3600 C13 IO Latency 23 = 51/52/5/4 DDR4-3733 C13 Auto Set RTL/IOL = 51/53/6/7 DDR4-3733 C13 IO Latency 23 = 51/53/4/6 I used AIDA64 as a quick performance measure to see the gains however you should feel small boost in the memory dependent benchmarks such as XTU,S-pi 32M,Maxmemm,Geekbench,etc. Please note that you can adjust IO latency separate on each channel altough they have to stay 1 value close to each other so for example if you found that 23/23 works you should try 24/23 or 23/24 as ultimate tuning. Also you can try tweaking IO Latency RFR Delay also,there are scenarios when if you are on edge you can try going higher with this as well and it will have the same effecto of training lower RTL/IOL. By doing this guide i wanted to help people having a starting base for basic tuning of memory aspects in DDR4 early times using Asus Motherboards based on Z170 . Have fun playing with your DDR4 ! This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1431x1057. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1499x826. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1493x829. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1441x973. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1527x951. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. 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  4. Hi overclockers! This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. I wanted to share some of my experiences with Skylake. I have to say, that this might only work for Asus boards, although I’ve tried full pot also on GBT, which seemed to work as well! Many of us know the Ice-Ball crack. Therefore, I’ve tested a hell lot of pastes, whereas FRESH Grizzly turned out to be the best! Read it here (in the meanwhile I’ve tested around 15 more pastes!): Test of Thermal pastes for the DIE on Skylake - Or the ICE-BALL Challenge After I knew, that grizzly is the best, I’ve tried some things and found one preparation/setting combo, that works on more 60 chips on cold! None of these chips had any CB nor a crack within the first hour of benching. This is what I want to share… You’ll notify three parts 1. Preparation 2. Bios 3. Handling Boards I used: Maximus VIII Extreme, Hero, Gene and Impact (You’ll see the differences in the BIOS section) Let’s start… 1. Preparation Everybody knows, a delidded CPU is obviously a must for Skylake-LN2 overclocking. Changing the original Intel TIM to the TIM you want to use – again, Grizzly seems to be the best in terms of cracking and temperature behavior! This is just my personal experience. When you look at the original Intel TIM after you delidded the chip, you’ll recognize a very thin layer of TIM. This is what you have to change now! Furthermore - after delidding, DO NOT EAREASE THE GLUE!!! Here you can see one of my chips cleaned after the last session (for me it is A MUST TO CLEAN IT EACH SESSION!) : This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. After the cleaning part, you should use at least as much TIM as I’ve used here: This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. Now you have to apply the TIM on the die, but now you’ll see an example how you shouldn’t do it – THIS CAUSES CRACKS! : This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. The following foto shows HOW TO APPLY THE TIM! Try to “enlarge” the die to each direction about 2-3mm. The TIM besides the die should almost have the same height like the die itself: This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. Now put the chip into the socket: This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. Use the little PCB frame from Asus to fix the chip in the socket: This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. When you dissemble everything, the core should look like this for 4-core: And here 2-core: This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1631x1080. This is the most important part, as the bios settings might differ a bit from chip to chip, although the BIOS settings I’ll show you, work for 98% of the chips. Except the very golden ones, they don’t like pll termination – more now… 2. Bios settings The most important thing here are not the voltages – it is the PCIe setting in the advanced menu! DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING HERE!!!! Leave everything on auto! Even with a bclk of 164, I can run PCIe 3.0 with the settings on auto. If you change them to 1.1, you should probably get a freeze at around -170 degrees. Let’s move on with the voltages. One thing before the important settings – If I don’t see a certain setting, it is not touched, so still on AUTO. Always disable SVID support. Furthermore, set everything to the max in DIGI+ control – EXCEPT THE FREQUENCIES – I always leave them on auto. In Tweakers Paradise you find some more voltages. But I only adjust these three voltages: DMI: 1.5V Core PLL: 2.4V PLL-Bandwidth: Level 6 I’ve tried several Bandwidths and 6 turned out to be the most useful. Core PLL obviously helps a lot for the cold bug. But you can try to lower it at fullpot in the OS! Then boot with this setting afterwards…but be careful – sometimes the core pll needs to be adjusted after 2 hours, that’s why I always use 2.4V. Now DMI on M8E for 2d (option1 – in handling part needed) – just keep it at 1.5V and use the GPU in the last slot. DMI on M8I for 2D/3D and M8E 3D (option 2) – boot with 1.5V and pour your pot down to -160 degrees. Now adjust 1.85V- 1.9V. You need to figure out, how strong the combination between CPU and board is. My gem chip for example needs 1.88V on extreme and 1.9V on impact. WHILE ADJUSTING….POOOOOUUUUURRRRRR! up to fullpot. You can get a blackscreen very shortly, but screen comes back for 99%! Besides the tweakers paradise, we have the normal voltages. CPU: What U need DRAM: What U need Pll Termination: 1.65V Standby: 1.35V /1.65V on hero, cause there's no pll termination, they are linked. You miss VCCIO and VCSSA? See the first sentence in this part Sometimes for heavy 3D benchmarks and very high clocked GPUs, a VCCiO around 1,45V helps stabilizing the GPU. Regarding CBB, you can test the original CBB of the cpu at stock settings. Leave all at default and try the lowest CBB. Cause if you adjust 1.65V pll termination, your CBB might be much worse than before. If you normal CBB is around 140 and you try to boot with 1.65V pll termination and your CBB changed to -100, then try to boot with 1.5V pll termination and raise it in the OS afterwards. 3. Handling Here are some important things for the handling, while fullpot benching. There’s a reset CBB on those chips – not all have it, but let’s say 80% of them. That means, when you are at fullpot, and press reset, you’ll see 25 postcode. Same with crashes for sure. So, if you have a BSOD, then torch the pot up to -173 and you can reset it very easy. Now let’s talk about the ultimate handling. When you have prepared the CPU properly and found your bios settings, then you can boot at around minus 80. I always boot with the above settings and 5G on core and cache and 1.5V on the cpu. Once you are in the OS, you can go fullpot. Then set Vcore, pll termination multipliers and have fun! The most important thing for option 2 has already been explained. Here again – on Impact, ALWAYS OPTION 2 IS A MUST! Once you hit fullpot, you can play until it crashes for sure – try to keep the temperature ALWAYS BELOW -135. If you’ve reached -100 once, some CPU love to crack then! So…NEVER EVER GO HIGHER THAN -135. Don’t try to boot with 1.8V DMI – you’ll always get 25 postcode. Don’t try to boot with 1.75 pll termination – you’ll sometimes loose you SATA Last but not least – DON’T PLAY WITH MINUS 100 TO 130, JUST TO SEE WHAT YOUR CPU DOES! DIRECTLY GO FULLPOT AND TEST THE CAPABILITIES THEN! If you have any question, fell free to ask! BTW - I'm not responsible for any dead chips! Do it on your own risk! Many thanks to Seasonic, Asus, T-Grizzly, Der8auer - you guys made this possible Keep pushing guys!
  5. In this thread we maintain a list of helpful overclocking guides for overclocking Z170 and Skylake CPUs. The list consists of English and international languages, written and video, general and detailed overclocking stuff. Feel free to post a message with links to other guides! English Guides - General Skylake Overclocking ROG Maximus VIII Series Guide by Coolice: ROG Maximus VIII & http://www.mediafire.com/view/s1d3wt...guide0722c.pdf Xtremesystems Official ASRock z170 OC Formula guide by Splave: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ion-FTW-ETC*** Skylake Overclocking Power Consumption and Voltage Scaling by Overclocking.guide: http://overclocking.guide/skylake-ov...ltage-scaling/ Skylake Overclocking Guide at Overclock.net: http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/s...ith-statistics Intel SkyLake Overclocking Guide by Myce.com: http://club.myce.com/f184/intel-skyl...-guide-339700/ Overclocking Support Thread for MSI Z170A XPOWER GAMING TE: [Overclocking Support Thread] MSI Z170A XPOWER GAMING TE TweakTown's Ultimate Intel Skylake Overclocking Guide: http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/7481...ide/index.html English Guides - Specific and Advanced Overclocking Advanced Skylake Overclocking: Tune DDR4 Memory RTL/IO on Maximus VIII by Alex@ro: HOW TO ! Properly Adjust RTL/IO on Maximus VIII Series ! MSI Z170A Xpower Titanium Cold Hynix by Strat: MSI Z170A Xpower Titanium : Cold Hynix International Guides [Guide] Intel Skylake Overclocking Anleitung 6600K 6700K by Der8auer (Germany): http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/ov...00k-6700k.html Intel Skylake Basic Overclocking Guide Part 2: Intel HD Graphics 530 OC by JagatOC (Indonesian): http://www.jagatoc.com/2015/09/intel...aphics-530-oc/ Video Guides LinusTechTips (Vessel): https://www.vessel.com/videos/OjS4Bp5kU
  6. ROG Maximus IX

    ROG Maximus IX series Disclamer: This is not an official support thread and tools/software is provided as is. Use at your own risk. Obviously most of you here will want our new ROG Maximus IX Apex board, which is targeted directly to high performance users. Memory OC is great as expected and highest we've seen so far is 4220 12-11-28-1T running 32M Waza. Coolest new overclocking feature is the RSVD switch which allows you to bench CBB free with most CPUs See the OC guide for details. It's written for M9A but applies to all boards except for certain missing features. Latest beta bioses Maximus IX Apex 0023 0801 with USB over-current detection disabled. 0801 Use in most scenarios. 0701 This bios has i3-7350K ratio adjustment fixed for TurboV Core & ROG Connect Plus. 0026 Similar to 0701 but slightly older, seems to work well for a lot of people. 0013 Like 0026 but half as good. 0091 Like 0088 but with support for Core i3-7350K. 0088 Might fix CBB issues with RSVD switch on some CPUs. Note that this BIOS behaves differently during POST with B-die + high voltage. Do not use this bios for Core i3-7350K as it's not updated for it. Maximus IX Extreme Use official BIOS Maximus IX Formula 0801 0701 Maximus IX Code 0801 0701 Maximus IX Hero 0801 0701 Other collaterals M9A OC Guide v1.1 TurboV Core 1.01.15 TurboV Core 1.01.14 This version fixes BCLK sticking after reset MemTweakIt V2.02.30 ROG Connect Plus 1.00.36 Z270 Firmware for OC Panel I/II Z270 Firahelper (XP install) Z270 AHCI drivers Z270 Chipset drivers Z270 MEI driver Z270 USB3 driver ROG wallpaper Update log 2017-01-23 Added additional bioses for M9A. Added ROG wallpaper. OC guide updated to v1.1.
  7. Time for a new guide. After some long tweaking and binning of B DIE memories I found out some tweaks in order to make B DIE fly on ROG boards It works for Maximus VIII Extreme, Maximus VIII Impact, Maximus VIII Gene (all tested by me), no idea if Hero/Ranger have same options in BIOS cause sadly I don't own those boards. Influence on M8E/M8G: - good boards will be able to boot and bench 2x8 GB 4000 CL12 1T TIGHT 2Ds like XTU and 3Ds, inside OS with BCLK raising we can even get more, though SPI32M CW will be very hard (I managed to do 4000 CL12 1T TIGHT only in single channel), and 3866 4x8 GB Influence on M8I: - good board will be able to do 4133+ SPI32M COPY WAZA Ground rules: BIN MOTHERBOARD! I binned overall 10x M8E and with Uncle Mad around 15x M8I. Board matters, believe me even though IMC is inside CPU. IT WAS SAME WITH MANY VENDORS AND MANY GENERATIONS. JUST ESPECIALLY NOW IT'S MORE VISIBLE AND CLEAR THAT WE HAVE TO BIN BOARDS. It's not possible to get exactly same motherboard PCB, each PCB differs inside, copper layers which produce signals and so on. Those are very small and subtle differences, but influence OC potential a lot. Note that mostly after LN2 benching, many motherboards degrade. Sadly but small sockets (BGA balls and traces under the socket) are very sensitive for full pot, especially fast temperature changes. That's why in Asus Shamino's/Elmor's Z170 guide we can find tips to slowly cool down CPU in order to preserve socket. Some motherboards are "RAMBO" edition, some sadly will degrade. For degraded boards you can try to clean socket + DIMMs with aceton and dry motherboard for a very long time. How to determine if I have a good or a bad board? 1. Check both Channels (A & B). On M8I mostly Channel B (2nd slot) is weak/degrades, especially with 1T. On M8E/M8G vice versa, mostly Channel A degrades. 2. If both Channels boot same frequency (e.g. 4000 CL12) than try dual channel. If your board mostly produces 41 code on settings which should work easy, worked on other ROG board, you have a bad sample and you have to bin more boards If you are getting 41 codes too often, setting signals manually on a "weak" board might make it work like average/good board. If board stucks at 55 code post especially in Dual, it's not issue of motherboard, we just need to have a) better memories, b) tweak settings c) retry to boot, please remember RETRY button is the best friend of OCer^^ especially with very tight settings and high frequency sometimes it's worth to try retry button 3-5 times, we should try booting few times when we already had same booting in the past, finally it should work. Please note that on cold, when slots are getting frozen or socket area, our booting frequency will go down a lot when platform is tired or memories too cold. B DIE like to be warm and dry. Retry button/safe mode @ M8I For safe mode - just use Power on/off button (red one under code poster), press it and keep until boards shutdowns and power it on again to boot in safe mode. Retry button is not on the board, so the best option is just to turn off PSU and turn it on and power on the board again. CPU IMC To be honest most people say they have a limit of IMC, I think it's more board/memories or wrong settings. I tried 4133 12-11-11 CW with 5x CPUs (6500+ HWBOT PRIME from my own binning) and all could do that with 1.25-1.30v (depends from BIOS) VCCSA/VCCIO. I mean of course I am aware that potato CPUs might not do that. BIOSES: For M8I I don't see big difference between 0014-0019, though 0019 seems to be slightly more stable in booting, also we don't need LN2 MODE Enabled in order to set more than 2.0 VMEM. Retail newest BIOS also works really well. M8E: for me 0015 was the best one, but newest retails are not bad at all either MAGIC SETTINGS/BOOTING SETTINGS RTLs/IOLs This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. ROG boards don't have issues with tightening settings by hand, we don't have to perform special rituals or dances. Especially on M8I we can put everything by hand and it will work (sometimes we have to retry 1-2 times). M8E/M8G can't run that tight RTLs as M8I and it's harder to lock settings by hand, but it also works, but in fact for 2D/3D which are not XTU or SPI32M, I would just leave AUTO settings. It won't effect our efficiency in other programs, even if board boots 50/52 instead of 50/51. SIGNALS - "SLOPES" This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. The most important are those 5: Clk Rising Slope Clk Rising Slope Offset Data Falling Slope Data Falling Slope Offset Cmd Falling Slope You can try different values of course. Each board is different and needs special attention. Personally I always change all "Slopes" at once, the most universal settings for M8I is "15-1" combination as you can see in the screenshots. For M8E/M8G mostly the best for me is "7-1". But as I said - try by yourself. I am just giving the most universal settings which worked best for me and the biggest amount of boards. ODT settings This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. This worked the best for me on M8I board (1 sample only). You can try and also finetune by yourself. On most ROG boards I leave that setting on AUTO, but some boards are much more stable with manual touch. On ASUS playing with ODT values doesn't influence efficiency. EXTRA STABILITY SETTINGS DRAM REF VOLTAGE CONTROL This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1024x768. On some B DIE this section can help booting in Dual, also improve stability and remove "79 SLOW BOOT BUG" with B DIE, when memories are on the edge (especially with 12-11-11 setting). Try 0.50000 - 0.52000 with 35-40 settings. Note that you have to change all lower settings same down to the end (really a lot of positions) cause with different values or half by hand half by AUTO board will not boot. MRC FAST BOOT DISABLED This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1005x376. For me Disabled is mostly better. Also keep in mind when setting TWR timing to set manually TWRPRE in order to avoid 41 code. B DIE VOLTAGE-VTT SETTINGS a) most B DIE (especially in Dual Channel) prefer lower VTT, 0.8-0.83v in order to avoid 55 code post b) 12-11-11 mostly needs higher VTT than 12-12-12 c) with proper VTT setting we can avoid 79 code post "SLOW BOOT BUG" - stability issue RESULTS My good M8I (sadly the best one died, my new one is really strong too, but I can't do 4133 49/50 RTLs as on my old board. I present bunch of results with my 3x strongest B DIE memory kits (Galax ES, Retails & G.skill Retails). 1. OLD M8I 49/50 RTLs 4133 12-11-11 on Galax ES memories This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 963x990. 2. Galax HOF OC LAB Special Edition 001/100 4133 12-11-11 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1418x1150. 3. Trying to run 4220 12-11-11 CW on my Galax retails This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1070x884. 4. SPI1M 4220 12-11-11 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1316x1133. 5. SPI 32M 4220 12-12-12 CW easy as piece of cake This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1313x1148. 6. SPI 1M 4310 12-12-12 booting is easy and running SPI1M This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1380x1163. 7. G.skill retails 3600C16 4133 12-11-11 This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1441x1146.
  8. KABY Updates BIOS http://picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/as...17MOCF721B.rar AFD http://picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/as...v3.0.92.2).rar ASRock Offical Website ASRock > Z170M OC Formula NEWEGG ASRock Z170M Extreme4 LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com TOOLZ http://picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/as...ol20160421.rar BIOS http://picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/as...17MOCF121B.rar picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/asrock/Z17MOCF131.zip ::Cold Bug Killer Settings 1.6 VCORE 1.4 VCCIO 1.4 VCCSA 1.65 CPU PLL Voltage 1.4 VCCPLL 2.22vColdBugKillerVolt 1.5 DMI Voltage ^These settings work for %90 of CPUs IF you still have CB then raise VCCPLL to 1.5 then raise Cold Bug Killer Volt to 2.4. Some CPUs need up to 1.8 DMI Voltage for any issues with PCIE Gen 3 but try lower first. FIDINGS ::Setting RTL manually by hand is easy type in what you want. B-die 4000mhz C12 tCWL9 try 49/50/6/6 or 50/50/7/6 or 50/51/7/7 or 51/51/8/7 Troubleshooting ::Post codes 00 Cold boot bug, needs warmer -Seems most around -100c to -120c for CBB 00 RTL failed -AC Off and Clear CMOS 00 CPU dead -Buy a new one 19 RTL/Mem failure -Try different RTL / timing or different vdimm or VCCSA 23 RTL/Mem failure -Try different RTL / timing or different vdimm or VCCSA 32 RTL/Mem failure -Try different RTL / timing or different vdimm or VCCSA 35 RTL/Mem failure -Try different RTL / timing or different vdimm or VCCSA 55 RTL/Mem failure -Try different RTL / timing or different vdimm or VCCSA b2 RTL/Mem failure -Try different RTL / timing or different vdimm or VCCSA 78 RTL too tight or tRCD too tight on b-die -try looser memory or RTL ab After saving settings in bios -Just wait will take up to 10 seconds sometimes :: Dual Core Locked CPU Benching -Use Micro Code 2D or 74 in CPU Settings page -Boot BCLK as high as you can, you are limited by the amount you can raise in the OS -Best option is to save a profile around 130 bclk and apply it and go back to bios. Then cool down cpu in bios and apply your higher voltage and bclk only dont touch anything that will cause a full cold boot. When it fails pull the 24 pin and warm up to you CBB setting then plug 24 pin back in and go into bios. Load your 130bclk profile again apply and go back into bios and pull cpu back down again.
  9. BIOS 0030 Updated LN2 profiles for LCC and HCC CPUs. Added Vccin Tracker option under Tweaker's paradise, enabled means "phantom throttling" is on. 0026 Latest BIOS, based on official 0802. Supports Windows XP with Kaby Lake-X. No throttling due to Vccin. 0038 Supports Windows XP with Kaby Lake-X. No throttling due to Vccin. Other collaterals ROGConnectPlus 1.00.39 Supports over 16C TurboV Core 1.02.02 Supports up to 18C R6OCPack0815 TurboV Core 1.01.24, MemTweakIt, ROG Connect Plus 1.00.38, OCPanel I/II firmware R6A XOC Guide v1.1
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