Lsdmeasap

Can't wait to try those BIOS out, shoot em my way - thanks! My set runs great at the 2200 limit , even on older BIOSes! So I'm sure now that this is corrected they might even be able to show up my BFR's 9-10-10-24-1T @ 1.51V

Nice to know! I wondered why you had to send them your kit anyway? I thought surely Samsung would be willing to send them a kit, or since they are so cheap they could easily buy a set, but I guess maybe it's not that easy to find in HK/Taiwan? In the mod version I will leave at tWCL, unless you guys all think I should change it back to defaults so it matches the BIOS? Or were you more asking Dino if they planned to change the BIOS to say tWCL since that is what it is? (Suggested!) Haha, sorry man! There I go again assuming you are everywhere at once, I'll try to cut back on that! I just thought since you frequent XS so often that you'd have ran across that thread more than a few times by now, but I guess not. Anyway, ya that thread will show them what's possible with these kits, then hopefully they can figure out why GBT boards are holding them back / limiting them to the 2200 divider. Hope they can figure it out, as that would make MANY people happy!! I personally only grabbed a set because of how cheap they were, so I could test things when helping others since so many users purchased these due to that XS thread and the huge one at OCN here. Otherwise I'll normally be running BBSE or PSC at 2400+ anyway as that's no problem and they sticks look much better than the naked Sammy's

Thanks Stelaras!! I don't think modifying a single side SPD for dual side is going to work, since the dual side ones we need use different IC's. The single use Hynix and the dual use Samsung, that's why the dual side SPD is needed to try and attempt using it with the Sammy's I'm not sure on the dual sided C11 Ripjawsz, do you know if those are Samsung IC? What about the Team SPD, do you know if that is double sided Samsung kit? That's all I can do with the Sammy's too on Z77/X79, 2200 or so. Easy booting there, but dead stop at anything past that no matter what you do, even setting CAS 11-12, super loose timings for everything else, voltages 1.8-1.9, ect. Nothing works, and these work fine and proper at 2400-2600+ on other boards as you mention, and the IC's are used on many other kits that don't have issue going above 2200. Thanks for the confirmation on tWL!! The reason we are discussing it is because I changed the blue version of Mem Tweakit's lable from tWL like the BIOS to tWCL (Red version shows tWL), so that's how we got started talking about this. These are Samsungs we have issues with, both links have good shots of the IC's and ram info http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Samsung/MV-3V4G3/3.html http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/memory/samsung_green_8gb_vlp_1600mhz_kit_review/2 See this thread also, I'm sure you've been here a time or two http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?277635-Ultra-low-profile-1.35v-30nm-DDR3-capable-of-2400MHz.-Perfect-for-SFF-builds./page28 The BIOS team should already have a set for testing because Sin0822 sent them a set, and I know they've used them to already correct the 1.35/1.5 auto voltage issue.

Honest, I never ignore anyone!! I really missed it, sorry bud! Anyway, I wanted to show you this, seems Franck thinks the same as I did on his new CPU-Tweaker http://www.tweakers.fr/download/CPU-Tweaker.rar Hopefully Dino will see these concerns and let us know what's really what! Either tWL=tWCL or they are both currently locked to the same values, as both reflect changes in the BIOS to tWL. They should be adjustable separately I believe. Anyway, if tWL does not = tWCL in GBT BIOS then they need to add tWCL into the BIOS for us, as it's very important for memory overclocking sometimes! That might even be the key issue or at least part of the issues with the cheap Samsungs! Don't change in windows with either app, it'll crash ya out! At least it does me at my current settings, up or down causes crash even if I raise first in the BIOS and try to lower back to original value in windows. I also just noticed a few days ago, you can change CAS on the fly with MemTweakit, very cool! Hopefully Franck can make CPU-Tweaker like that!

No problems here with BBSE and 2500k/Z77 at the timing/speed you mentioned, email in route with more info Quick and dirty settings, and testing = no tweaks & voltage guesses Sorry, I missed this previously! Ya know, I thought that, so I changed it so I wouldn't get lost... but now I see this might not be the case! Dino will have to confirm for us, or I'll try to ask the BIOS guys soon. I don't think tWL is the same as tWCL, related but not the same and we really need tWCL in the BIOS so hopefully they will add it soon if they've not just simply named tWCL to tWL (Unlikely, but ya never know?)

Sorry Dino, didn't meant to poke on ya like that! And really, I was more wondering why you hadn't commented anywhere about the Samsung HYKO above 2133/2200 issue You can use spdtool .63 on X58 boards, and P67 I think, not sure about Z68 - but I know it doesn't work on Z77, at least not for reading from the installed memory but you can open and read SPD's with it on Z77. Whenever I need to flash a SPD I do it on X58 just because it's easier that way for me since I know that chipset works, that way I'm not spending time trying with 5 other boards until I find a working one As for the initial issue mentioned here, I don't see it as a board/BIOS issue from what I can tell, I mean it looks like tRRD is setting correctly in auto for many speeds I tested and posted about previously.

It's just a case of "Review samples (And some early retail) Vs. current and 95% of what's out there" - from what I see anyway. This applies to the $100 kit mainly, some of the more expensive kits have always been better (Better IC / or Better Binned, Dual sided, ect) and have not changed IC or dual to single like the $100 kit has. Just tested a single stick tonight, but only for about 10 minutes as it was easy to see the outcome no matter what. Fine up to 2200 even at 1.55-1.6, no go at 2400 no matter how loose you set anything or how high you set the voltages (Tested up to 1.86). There is a hidden setting we can't adjust causing this, or a relevant/required setting missing from the BIOS, no way they could work at 2133-2200 so easily and then just stop dead in their tracks when trying 2400

Yes, hopefully they get things ironed out soon! Thanks, I wish I could figure out how to remove the green corners! Yes, that's what I meant, well at least for some of the early double sided samples anyway. Most are single sided now so it's not really a good comparison I suppose. I did notice they've been working on the 1.35/1.5 issue, but that doesn't really help/affect the ability to use them above 2133MHz. As for PSC, yes I do set 2nd/3rd timings myself, but auto works fine for me too most of the time (Just performance is not as good). What's the full IC model number of the ones you had issues with? XDY....A3G-A and XDZ....A3G-A work fine for me, I have a few other sets with similar IC's but I'm not 100% sure of hand what those model #'s are. But ya, in general you are right I do set those timings myself at higher speeds, but I start booting with auto and only adjust for better performance - not for stability or to make them bootable, ect. Someone please share double-sided G.Skill Trident X 2400 XMP/SPD!! Thanks!

Ya, I sent in a report a long time ago too, about the Sammy's and BFR's, the BFR issues have been corrected shortly after my report (I think, haven't tested with them much since sending in the report so can't be 100% sure on that) but nothing done with Sammy's yet. Surely this is just one or two settings they aren't giving us access too? I posted an image here earlier showing all the settings currently in the BIOS, some of which we cannot set because they are hidden so it could be those, or could be a setting they've not added at all yet? Seems like it should be an easy fix, not sure what the hold up is? I don't have any G.Skills, nor any contacts there to check about getting a set for testing, and I've been super short on cash lately so I can't afford to pickup a set just for testing. It's the same IC's (At least for those w/ double sided samsung based kits anyway), and the G.Skills work, so not sure what's going on? I know you say it's XMP, but that shouldn't matter really once you set things manually. In any event, if it is a XMP issue, then flashing a XMP into those cheaper ones should work and it doesn't from what others say, so that says to me right there XMP present or not isn't the issue. Still waiting for someone to share a XMP with me so I can test!! PSC has not been a problem for me at all, what issues are you seeing or hearing about with PSC? I can push mine to 2600, and can run good settings at 2400 all day long, with several different PSC kits. Is there a known issue with those I've missed out on hearing about? If so let me know, maybe I know the key and should be sharing it but didn't know others were having problems? I'm mainly using F8g right now, since that's what I started my review testing with, but I have flashed in plenty of the more recent betas each time one comes out and then I play/test for a bit and see if anything's changed in regards to certain things. No luck with Sammy's on any of them though. I'll try the single stick sometime and see if I can see what's stopping dual from working at above 2133, might be something silly like you mentioned, but I'm leaning more towards something missing in the BIOS or something hidden we can't adjust, otherwise they'd probably have fixed it by now. Dino, why you so quiet on this issue? Hahahah! As for your last comment about XMP, I never set it and don't have problems (With kits that work that is). And yes, I've tested setting it on Z77 and don't really see any difference, except when at stock ram speeds XMP vs auto is obviously different, but at 2400Mhz on a 1600Mhz kit I don't see how a 1600MHz XMP profile is going to help anything anyway? Yes, sorry for the late reply! Here's the updated MOD Version @ Blacker black, darker blue, and added back in tREFIX9 for Z77 (sorry Leeghoofd, looks like I missed that on the previous upload I posted for you, uploaded wrong MOD version) http://www.mediafire.com/?vh56pp6z7l6zp77

You had me going there for a minute, thought I was missing out on a setting again! Here ya go! http://www.mediafire.com/?pr8qa5zad6csc02

OK, I just looked in UD5H BIOS S4 see below, and there is no TRWDR so it's the same as UD3H It would be nice if we could access all of the memory settings though, might get those Sammy's going or something?!!

Very nice testing results! Sorry, I didn't look back at my notes when commenting on performance above, and must have been confused on which settings exactly gave best performance increases, but I know I'm happy to see all the new tertiary timings as it's a great move in the right direction for DDR3! Looks like you are correct about the performance gains and TRSSR Where are you seeing tRWDR in the BIOS? Does UD5H have this and UD3H not? In Memtweakit, on UD3H anyway, TRWDR is TRWDRDD that is why I changed the name of the setting. Haha, I just read your last comment!! I'm lost too, are you seeing TRWDR in the BIOS or not? It's not in UD3H BIOS at all, and TRWDRDD directly changes to anything I set it at in Memtweakit, so I'm certain that is what it is. I think we are both referring to the same setting, only you are saying what Memtweakit calls it, and I'm saying what the BIOS name for that setting is... Right?

I looked into the tRRD thing a little bit, haven't played with 2600 with your info in mind yet so not sure how much if any that will help me there, but here's what I'm seeing so far. I am not using XMP, all manual/or auto, expert mode Turbo or Extreme (Both = same on this). At 2133 tRDD Auto = 7 actual (Reflected in MIT status and windows) At 2400 tRDD Auto = 8 actual (Reflected in MIT status and windows) So I'd expect 2600 tRRD Auto = Maybe 8 / Probably 9 or above, no way is it going to auto set 4. What you see on the left of the BIOS is never the actual used setting, it never has been from what I've seen in any Gigabyte BIOS. Maybe it's correct/actual sometimes if you use XMP not really sure on that as I never use it, but I've always told users to ignore the left side values as they're never actual but only what the board used previously at some time in the past or sometimes what auto thinks might work (But also never uses anyway) So that 4 you are seeing on the left for auto is not actually what the BIOS is attempting to use at 2600 or above, I can assure you of that. Great to hear setting 7 is working for you though, 8+ might help even more too now that I've looked at those auto setting for that value, depending on your kits and other settings, voltages, ect. But you can use tRRD 4 at 2400, I know that for sure as that's what I used for 2400 in my review (tRRD 4 / tFAW 16-20, they are connected so this also might be a factor for you when setting tRRD). Not sure how low you can take it at 2600 though, my CPU is iffy there on water, and I don't have any Z77 XMP kits (Or any memory meant for Z77 so this may be part of the issue too?). Anyway I've only been able to play with that a little bit for now, until I have some time to get my CPU frozen or better memory, not sure if this CPU will be able to bench there or not. Hope that helps some!!

There isn't a TRWDR setting that I can see (UD3H), or am I missing it? And I think it's not, which is what gave me the idea to edit the name in Memtweakit once I noticed what it really was. I only left the TRWDR in Memtweakit like that so I would remember where it was in case I needed to add back later for some reason. If you set TRWDRDD to 8 or above, then you will see poor bandwidth, then lower in windows one at a time and you'll see bandwidth go up dramatically as you get lower. That's why I said leave and don't hide, it's kinda like tRD on old platforms. Finally Z77 has brought actual memory tweaking performance to DDR3, other settings have good impact as well, unlike many of the DDR3 platforms before Z77. I have not looked for the exact correlation in Memtweakit for TWRDRDD, not sure if it's even there (Or maybe I looked already and it wasn't, so I didn't change CR)? If it is and you know which it is, I can change the wording for ya if you want, let me know. Also, if you want a copy of my edited version let me know, I only edited the Z77 timing description, it will still show whatever names are default for other chipsets. I don't have any G.Skills myself, I've been testing with 8GB kit's of BFR's, and 4GB kits of PSC/BBSE mainly. Would love to push on my Sammy's, but have yet to see anyone post a G.Skill profile so I can try it myself. Someone please post, like Stelaras, please share! Thanks! I'd love to try myself! If anyone shares please be sure it's from a double sided Samsung kit. Stelaras, was the SPD you tested from a double sided samsung kit, were you positive on that? Just wondering Also, my comments above about tWCL were discovered on PSC (XDZ.... A3G-A), and that's mainly what I've played with it on so far (Just discovered). But I'm pretty sure with it auto setting incorrectly at times that would affect any kit, unsure if XMP enable would change that behavior or not, don't have any Z77 XMP memory to test with. I'll be testing your tRRD finding shortly, thanks a lot! That's one setting I probably never thought auto would set too low, so I'm sure it's probably been a big part of memory hassles for me at times too. *Edit* Also see above for my edits, after looking back at my notes I see I previously worded the above a little incorrectly. I also think Gigabyte needs to remove IDE detection from the BIOS routines, A0 shouldn't be normal for the debug code while in windows. Of course it's going to stop there at initialize IDE since there is no IDE, so it should be removed. What do other Z77 debug coders show in windows? I know I could be wrong as Z77 might be different, but I'd expect for Gigabyte that's the ONLY reason it stalls there. That could also be holding us back on other things, who knows!?!? I plan to inquire about that myself, just trying to wrap up too many reviews at once right now so I haven't had a chance yet, but I will shortly!

tRWDRDD has a major impact on performance, and should NOT/Never be removed or set auto by the BIOS and then hidden/non-user adjustable!! You can adjust this setting yourself, then it's depending on the ram kit if it's going to boot or not, too low and it'll fail of course. You can see what auto sets for that on your board/mem by using Memtweakit, note in my image I have edited the program to correctly show which value this is on Z77 I've actually found tWCL to be the culprit of no boot at 2600 for me, more than a few times on a few sets of memory. It should be CL -1, but there is times where that fails or the BIOS will set CL -2 (or sometimes it sets -1 but you need -2, ect), so sometimes you need to set manually, and sometimes you need to set this to CL = tWCL or manually set tWCL to CL -1, -2, ect *Edit* Sometimes you may also need to set tWCL manually to less than expected, for example, sometimes for me even at CAS 10 if I set tWCL to -1 (9) it'll fail and give 51 post code, same for CAS 11. In those instances usually when I set tWCL to 7 or 8 it would then boot and work, 8 usually works the best for me. So there is something funky going on at certain CAS levels in Z77, or the BIOS itself, not sure which but I know this setting needs to be set manually most of the time and it's not often what you'd expect to have to set or what you'd expect should/should not work. * Thanks for the tRRD tip too, I'll see if that helps on any of the kits I've been playing with. Someone needs to share some of those 2400-2600 G.Skill SPD's, so Samsung users can have a proper XMP to try and work with (Still impossible to set above 2200 for everyone that last I've seen)!!

No 570 here either, or I'd try to beat you, sorry!

Man, you stole my WR!!! J/K, nice CPU!! You should let me borrow it and see how high I can take it!

Sorry for the late reply, but as mentioned above the kit info is there It's 998679 (BBSE)

Thanks man!! Yes, I do believe it's all the luck of the CPU mainly, and I almost didn't even test Bclk with this 920 CPU too! I've now tested two W3250's/DO's since 1366 came out, and neither were any better or worse than any C0/C1's I have, ES or retail they all seemed to have their own respective advantages or disadvantages. It really just all seemed to me to be how lucky or unlucky I was with each CPU itself, rather than if it was a new stepping, ES/Retail, or better batch, ect. or anything like that.

Just tried a W3520 D0 on phase and could only get 260 or so, maybe 265 would be possible on dice with that CPU not sure. So CPU itself matters more than I had ever thought! Thanks!!!!

Hehe, thanks man! It's tough work, but someone's gotta do it

Thanks man, I'm super excited as it's my first world record! No, I don't have any D0 CPU's, I only have C0/C1 920 and 965 as far as quads go. I have a 980X I used to think would be the best because it could boot 246 on water, but I could only get it up to about 251 or so frozen, so it turned out it wasn't so great for Bclk.

Gigabyte X58A-OC Takes X58 Bclk World Record @ 276.42 Bclk!! Hi guys and gals! After my recent Bclk adventures on phase, I knew it was time to get this setup under some colder temps and try to secure a world record. Yesterday the board was frozen, and the world record at HWBot for Bclk was mine This is my first world record, I'm so excited!!! So, all you Ln2 users with a X58A-OC board, please let me enjoy the limelight for a little while - thanks! J/K, keep on pushing guys! This only took me about 10 minutes after booting from the settings I used on phase, tried for more for an hour or two, but this was the limit of this CPU on dice temps. Needless to say I had plenty of dry ice left over haha! I also just realized I had the Uncore set higher than I thought and that may have actually been what stopped me instead of the actual Bclk being the limiting factor. I had it set to x16 and meant to have it on 12-13, so I may be able to take this further with less uncore, we'll see next time around or shortly on phase Hardware used: GIGABYTE GA-X58A-OC Motherboard BIOS F5b (What a beast!) Intel 920 C0/C1 CPU Mushkin Ridgeback 998826 (4GB) Memory Crucial RealSSD C300 128GB SSD PNY FX 5500 - 128MB PCI Graphics card NZXT Hale90 750W PSU Dry Ice W/ Acetone @ BartX Custom Dice Pot The voltages and settings I used can for the most part be seen in the 272 SuperPI 1MB screenshot below, except a little less IOH and a little more PCIE (1.36V / 125.8) for the 276.42 Bclk, if you'd like to know more feel free to ask - enjoy! SuperPI 1MB 272 Bclk!! (Could have possibly done it higher, forgot to go back and try ) Click to enlarge And finally the world record!! Here is the top 20 current HWBot standings for X58 Reference Clock Hardware news, Overclocking Competitions, Reviews 276.42 Bclk 4c/8t CPU-z Validation Link - 276.42 Bclk Hardware news, Overclocking Competitions, Reviews I was also able to achieve 263.5 Bclk using x19 multiplier, this CPU isn't able to reach much above 5Ghz though, maybe only about 5.2GHz or so. So that, and the fact that higher voltages and temps mean lower Bclk, this was all I could get using the x19 multi during my short attempts on that multi. 263.5 Bclk @ X19 Multi 4c/8t CPU-z Validation Link - 263.5 Bclk Also, here's a video of booting at 260 Bclk, then going up to 276 in windows, for anyone thinking these are from the Bclk bugging out Huge thanks to everyone @ GIGABYTE for all of their continued support!!

Thanks XC, can't wait to freeze it all!

Thanks guys! Haha, I may not be able to get this setup close to what SB can do, but I'm sure I'll be able to beat my x53 max 2500K once I freeze this setup