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Booj

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    MOA 2013 Discussion

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted

    Well done everyone.. great competition this year on the first day with everything coming down to the last submits.

     

    Proud of our Aussie boys JJJC and SniperOZ to finish where they did despite weaker CPUs.

     

    Crazy effort by T0lsty, Rbuass, Lucky N00b, Vivi and everyone.. bring on MOA 2014!

    Computex 2013: Who Is Going? These are the OC events!

    in Offtopic

    Posted

    We will see Dino, we will see!

    As for right now, only party/event im sure of attending, is F1 with Borandi 10th 2AM.

     

    I'm in. Have you got a venue in mind?

     

    2am race start is late, but I can ask the Tavern Sports Bar if they are willing to stay open. They will need a few bums on seats to stay open until 4 or 5am though.

    R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

    in HWBOT Rev.5

    Posted

     

    I'm very happy that you finally found 47 people that care about the Pro OC League, even though very few of the peope I see in that list previously communicated or talked about the League and a couple even said in public (and private) that they don't care about the League. As said, this is very useful information to be used in the first real evaluation of the Pro OC Cup.

     

    I think Splave's meme is a very good tool to understand this chart. 47 people have accepted a system where they will forever be defeated and never come out on top. Honestly speaking, I think that's a very sad evolution as it means that people have given up on trying to be number one. If we talk about the "great olden days" with KP, Hipro, Macci at the top but where "everyone had a chance to compete" is because at least people had the ambition to be number one. People had the ambition and desire to beat the top guys. In the league, there's just acceptance. And that is the death of overclocking!

     

    Death of overclocking.. thats a bit melodramatic.. Why the obsession with being number one? In this hobby, is it not enough to do the best you can with limited resources, like time as well as hardware? I wont ever play golf again with my mates because I can never beat Tiger Woods..

     

    I'd like to be number one, but I will never beat Andre, Vince etc.. I say, good luck to those guys.

     

    It is an inherent weakness of competitive overclocking that maybe wasn't present back then. It wouldn't be any different in a cup format if the big hitters got involved.

    R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

    in HWBOT Rev.5

    Posted

    Unless you use ES hardware.

     

    Not that my personal issues really make a difference as far as overall HWBot changes go, but I cannot go back to OC-league because I use ES CPUs (and GPUs; though they can't be detected, I won't try and hide that). I see no reason at all to replace them with retail versions just to be able to be ranked in the OC league. I'm not that heavily into competing but still enjoy trying to get what I can out of what I've got to see where the scores fall. Surely others feel the same way and I think that's what pro was getting at - they use ES like I do so our individual ranking will just be....nothing.

     

    This is obviously not going to change, so don't consider this a complaint to try and change anything. Just trying to help flesh out the answer to pro's question.

     

    EDIT - Also, yes, I know the choice not to purchase retail replacements for ES chips/GPUs is a choice. It's not much of one because I couldn't afford to do it TBH, but it is a choice nonetheless. Doesn't mean I like having to make the choice. :P

     

    ...and so my trip into the Ether begins.

     

    Same situation for me.. The cup is of no interest to me at all, and I use ES so i will join you in the ether!

    R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

    in HWBOT Rev.5

    Posted

    massman is pretty sharp guy imo...so I would only assume he is trying to help and benefit the community with his decisions and grow his website and the OC market. and on that note, just let me know what the new rules are and when we start :P

     

    Yeah I agree, I've got nothing against Massman whatsoever, hes a top bloke. I'm no keyboard warrior. I am happy to see overclocking grow and evolve, as long as the impact on the current enthusiasts is not too high which is what I fear will be the case. I am happy to be proven wrong for the good of the sport.

     

    With so many considerations.. shifting towards mobile, global economic problems, significant barriers to entry, overclocking faces challenges going ahead and it's important to minimize the impact on the core as much as possible.

    R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

    in HWBOT Rev.5

    Posted

    It is becoming clearer that generating external interest is the main goal here. I am sorry, I just do not see how thousands of non overclockers will suddenly be compelled to follow extreme overclocking. It is too abstract a concept and too far removed from the 24/7 users, the gamers and those who see it as nothing more than a curiosity. A last 5 min backup reveal situation is not compelling viewing unlike pro gaming where viewers can follow it blow by blow like any sport.

     

    I do not believe that 99% of competitors don't care about the pro league. If they did not care, they would not submit anything.

     

    Using the team.au example, soon the scores themselves will disappear from the public consciousness. What remains is the #4 rank. The league rank is what HWbot was built upon, and getting rid of it seemingly invalidates all the effort put in. HWbot functions as a database as well.. a cumulative record of all overclocking done by everyone relative to everyone else. Many of these long time guys will seemingly have their work invalidated by this change. HWbot gained success by using an algorithm to assign a cumulative effort.. The change seems largely arbitrary and doesn't sit well with many.

     

    I don't see whats so complicated about keeping both the cup and league. Those in the league understand the algorithm. Some guys do only 3d, others only 2d, others only the really tweakable ones like pcm05, spi32 and 3d01. How many guys really compete to be no. 1 in the current pro league? Does every one in the league submit results in all categories and bust their guts to max every setup in every benchmark? besides a few, I think not.. So the argument about not being able to compete in the current pro league is largely irrelevant to all but a very small number of users. I think the competitiveness argument comes from a guy attempting to compete with a 1 in 1000 CPU, the change, even if successful, will not fix that.

     

    IIRC one of the reasons for the pro league was to separate those who have backing, as well as employees, reviewers etc from the pay their own way enthusiasts. Not everyone is trying to be number one. To force this type of user into a pro cup is not going to be successful. Guys like rbuass deserve credit for being hardcore enough to really compete with these factory backed guys. Now he faces a situation where he has to bench hardware he has no interest in, in a benchmark he has no interest in, all out of his own pocket... not going to happen...

     

    A lot of people have a problem being, cough cough dictated what bench to run. That means many of their favorite varied benches will be irrelevant in the future which does not sit well.

     

    Why does there need to be a winner? Don't we have MOA and GOOC for that? Russia, Andre, team,au, Vince etc are at the top because they consistently bench to a very high standard.. they are already the winners so to speak.

     

    At the end of the day, you are alienating a big chunk of the hardcore overclockers who want no part of a comp.. is there a prize? find $10k to give to a cup winner and maybe they will be interested. Otherwise, the hobby itself is being screwed with. That's what it is for most.. a hobby. Some will end up not submitting anything on the bot at all.. I don't think HWbot wants a situation where world records consistently do not show up on this site, but in local forums and in PR from manufacturers.. its a kind of ridiculous leap i know.. but that's the slippery slope towards irrelevancy.

     

    Going back to myself.. its a get with the program or shipout situation. HWbot, as a database and cumulative result of my scores over 5 or 6 years gets thrown out the window. So what if i have the 50th fastest 680 in 05 and 200 other results.. the points calculation is the cumulative result of that, and if thats gone, then whats the point of submitting anything?

     

    longest.

    post.

    ever.

    R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

    in HWBOT Rev.5

    Posted

    Currently, the stage list is configured as follows (95% certain it will be like this):

    • CPU-Z CPU Frequency
    • SuperPI 32M
    • Wprime 1024M
    • 3DMark Fire Strike Single GPU
    • 3DMark11 Full Out

    Fyi, for the first season we'll allow older scores to be used for the stages. This allows Pro OC members to re-use some of the big scores they set in the past couple of months. After a couple of Pro OC Cups, we'll have a Pro OC Ranking based on the performance in the X last cups similar to how the ATP Tennis Rankings work.

     

    I don't really understand your complaints. I mean ... I do, but I don't think the complaints are significantly different from how it is now or are inherently insuperable. The inability to bin 100s of CPUs does not change, whether it's a League or Cup. Not having access to 4 graphics cards will not change whether you're in a League or a Cup. You can still bench whatever you want - it just won't reflect your personal ranking. Looking at the exposure from Team.AU last weekend, I see all the focus is on the benchmark results and none (except for my news post) is on the League position. If that is the freestyle both Dino and yourself are talking about, it doesn't change either.

     

    What changes is that you can now easily team up with some friends, put the available together and bench for a couple of specific targets. You can try to get in contact with possible hardware sponsors (vendors, shops, distributors, ...) and points them to a competition that has an end date; just like a competition should have. You will, after a couple of cups, be able to point to your Pro OC history (we will keep track of wins, stage wins, etc) and show how you did in past editions.

     

    You work for MSI, apparently. My advice? Set up a team featuring a couple of enthusiastic/promising overclockers from a forum, invite them to the office and see if you can do something with the gear you do have available. If you don't win, so what ... it's just for fun, right?

     

    I started writing a big wall of text but its better to discuss it in person heh.. I'm coming to Taipei at the end of next week. We'll have to catch up for a beer and chat :) by that time it will be up and running and people can see it in action.

    R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

    in HWBOT Rev.5

    Posted

    couple of maggot bags and dead horse? :D

     

    Add a Farmers Union Iced Coffee and you have everything a growing (outwards) man needs :D

     

    I am interested to see how this plays out. Like Dino, I am disappointed that there is no place for freestyle benchers from the current pro league.. I fear the fun and hobby factor will be lost among many of the really passionate (not to mention long term) guys who bench what they want, when they want, with whatever hardware they choose.

     

    Not everyone in the current pro league has 100(0) CPUs to bin, cannot get 4 free VGAs at a time.. it is asking too much of these users.. I cannot go back to the OC league because I work for MSI, so unless I have missed something.. I am out.. casualty of change I guess..

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