sergiorb Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I am not an active member, but will tell soms important things to consider. About rbuass case. The question is? And if rbuass didn't get the score???... and every hard overclocker knows its usual... because hardware cannot reach the same, or not working or any thing? Now rbuass has been called as cheater or liar...and it wouldn't be happen. About Gunslinger I think the best way is to go the next score, because is quite obvious. Then, for my recommendation is, There are no sense to keep 1 place per country, simply because qualifier shoud be to select the best overclockers. If there are only a Global qualifier, we will see much more scores, much more disputes and much more nice event. If MSI turn as mandatory a video, it will prevent also all kind of issues. No more problem with countries No more problem with hardware sharing No more problem with scores that don't have official validation Looks easier that to confront again and again this kind of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnidaol Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Just by curiosity what would be the rule if there wasn't a fourth country participating? Would it be only three spots in the end? Anyway let's wait the staff to consider everything while checking all scores and validations to get the final positions. I would like to end up with the 4th place. Although all issues I had I would be relieved that even with all effort maybe not being enough to get me the top spot in my country rank, in the end it could have given me the 3rd best PI 32m and 4th 3d03 and so the 4th place at the AM Qualifiers. Congrats again to the winners! let's see how msi will decide the 4th AM spot at the finals, hope it will be in a wise way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Okay guys, we saw the video and all is good. I cleaned up the thread a bit too. Back to other topics -> So bro, how many places should be there for China + India + Pakistan + Indonesia??? 20? Of course we don't go by general population, but by OC population measured at HWBOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) Maybe it's by sales. Should be no Romanians then hahaha I kid I kid Well then I guess Asia would still have 20 places and AM 3, right? To bad Europeans won these championships so many times, right? =)) Of course we don't go by general population, but by OC population measured at HWBOT Statistics, pie-charts, etc....let's see the numbers per region (AM, EMEA, APAC). Edited August 2, 2014 by Monstru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Posted in the general thread Numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Region man...region... EMEA is not Germany and France and Italy, it is Europe, Middle East (Western Asia ) and Africa... and AM is not just USA. I am really curious. The population by continent in 2013 look like this: Rank Continent Population 2013 — World 7,162,119,000 1 Asia 4,298,723,000 2 Africa 1,110,635,000 3 Americas 972,005,000 4 Europe 742,452,000 5 Oceania 38,304,000 Middle east accounts for >200MIL inhabitants It would be interesting to make a study compared to the general population (as in how much population a region has and what percentage of that population is active on HWbot). You can also correlate that with GDP by region in 2013 Rank Country GDP (trillions of $) Year World 73.98 2013 1 Asia 24.4 2013 2 North America 20.3 2013 3 Europe 18.5 2013 4 South America 4.2 2013 5 Africa 2.6 2013 6 Oceania 1.8 2013 7 Antarctica N/A 2013 The only problem is that in the case of population it is easy to substract Middle East numbers from Asia but it is more complicated to separate it from a GDP point of view (you do have Saudi Arabia, Israel and other productive countries in that area). I think North America or Europe might have the highest density of overclockers per general population numbers. However, this still does not mean that any country in this world should be treated differently but that's a different story (it does not matter how much money you make when you go to world cup football or anything like that, you still have a team per country if you qualified). But right now I am curious about statistics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) My statistic, as far as performance is concerned goes like this. If we take into consideration real WW competition where everybody had a chance to participate and it was not a money game (eg bring your own hardware or pay your trip) and the qualifiers were TRULY world wide (just like a normal sport)... the results per regions are pretty simple: MOA 2008 - Indonesia MOA 2009 - Sweden MOA 2010 - Sweden MOA 2011 - Romania MOA 2012 - Korea MOA 2013 - Ukraine GOOC 2008 - Sweden GOOC 2009 - USA GOOC 2010 - Romania So you have Europe 6 times, APAC 2 times and AM one time... Ok, if you also take into consideration ronaldo's freestyle win in MOA you have AM 2 (one NA one SA)... Inside Europe, you have western Europe winning 3 times and Eastern Europe winning 3 times). So much for population, GDP and sales... And Romania shouldn't even be considered sales wise (right Allen) Of course you can also look at HWB Country Cup which even if it is not a live event it is still truly worldwide and nation based with tons of people participating... And then it gets even more funnier... 2009 - Romania (EMEA) 2010 - Romania (EMEA) 2011 - Indonesia (APAC) 2012 - Greece (EMEA) 2013 - Australia (APAC) It's pretty funny that when it comes to contest where money are not involved, a bunnyextractionty small part of the world like Eastern Europe (294 mil population and a bunnyextractionty GDP) won WW live finals 3 times and country cup 3 times. And 4 of those 6 times it was a small banana republic which really does not matter (right Allen?), with a population a little under 20 mil and a GDP smaller than what an arab seic spends on private jets and lambos in a year... Yes sir...funny... but hey, it does not matter, as someone told me in Computex, that was a long time ago Edited August 2, 2014 by Monstru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 So you are saying emea should have 9 Asia 1 USA 1 based on those stats. Nice bro lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.nfraR.ed Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) No, he's saying no country should have advantage. I didn't see the great amount of US oc'ers competing for MOA places anyway. Edited August 2, 2014 by I.nfraR.ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikecdm Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The graph shows it. It doesn't take into account the quality or skill of the overclockers. It does however, show there are more overclockers in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) I believe we are talking about QUALITY and not QUANTITY. According the league we can see: http://hwbot.org/country/league Russia - 117530 / 1024 = 114.8 points/overclocker Italy - 101616.1 / 934 = 108.8 points / overclocker Brazil - 42698.2 / 908 = 47.0 points / overclocker Taiwan - 10881.3 / 89 = 122.3 points / overclocker Indonesia - 20453.9 / 557 = 36.7 points / overclocker As you can see, there are more dispute in other countries then in the USA. Its "SURE" the numbers do not show the real "hard overclockers environment"... but how is that environment NOW? Who is the guys in the USA, able to get a place (better written... with more chance)... USA - Splave, Gunslinger, Redmax, Mike and???? Brazil - Rbuass, Gnidaol (4 x MOA), Joe90Br (1 x MOA Vegas)... and we can see Schenckel Bros, acshenck, Guerreiro215, Nom$, PXHX, Darkvenom, NeverSleep... and more a couple of guys We know that the USA had GREAT HARD overclockers... Chew, Fugger, Zeneffect, Gautam, Mikeguawa, Zeneffect and even more... but according the last years, they are not going to "competition".... what I mean, they are not active to try MOA nowadays. So.. I see no reason... and non sense... One more fact that can be clear about this... If we have ONLY one place per country... We will cut best overclockers, bringing a local (country dispute), instead to select the best 15, 16 or even 20 spots... We see: Ryba x Xtreme Addict Smoke x 12 (or Slamms) Benchbros x Moose83 x Dancop Phil x Aristidis x Sofos Hazzan x Alba And many more hard disputes...(sorry, but fast post make me forget more people... and even top guys like hipro, stummer, me4me and other top dogs that can be raising suddenly to the spots... the same in ALL the world). I know it will not change to 2014, but they need to think about this for the next time. IMHO The competition "QUALIFIER" reason is to select the best overclockers to the competition spots. The way they use for today, the competitors will be SO FAR the guys that reaches the best scores, but the guys will "complete" the spots. Don't need to be too much smart to check EMEA competition... and Americas competition... regardless I live in America, I know the EMEA competition is hardest than america... and MORE.... Class B can be the hardest ever. Thats a Global competition... Then... its pretty sure the best 15, 16 or 20 scored guys worth that places to the finals...But.... why they do not do this way???? The only reason I heard... or I noticed... or I can imagine... is because there prevent HARDWARE SHARING... OMG guys... hardware sharing is a "non sense" rule, according my point of view... I can show several reasons 1- Because the guys can share the hardware same way... by Fedex, in 2 or 3 days??? 2- Because if I borrow my hardware my friend can get my place with better score than me??? 3- Because who worth more the score????.... if I share my hardware with a guy and he get better score than me???? 4- Because will be MANY more disputes and will be many more competitive this way??? So... is only my point of view... I know that will be many people that agree... and the same... many people disagree... According the actual issue... who will be the Gunslinger replacer... is just one more proof that instead to get the best scored, they can only "complete" a spot... because there are "missing" one overclocker. All the best for you Edited August 2, 2014 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Yes rule with 1 OCer per Country sucks In germany for example Dancop, Bench Bros and me but only 1 can go better would be Top 6 overall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I think emea should get 8 and Brazil 2 and that's it don't you guys agree? Nice to know a countries quality of skill is measured in moa wins which as we all know is 80% luck of hardware 15% preparation 5% skill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) I agree 8 to Europe, more 8 to USA, because there are much more people there... then can split 4 for the rest of the world. P.S. nobody told the measure of "country quality of skill" is MOA... Just YOU told the "measure" should be by number of people... that also isn't right. BUT... if there are a "qualifier", for sure... quality is much more important to quantity (or no?)... or in your way of view, there are more dispute in the USA then in other countries? In no one place I told about Brazil, but in "all countries", and just Brazil is includded... and even "Romania", where are Monstru and Matose, for example... for a high level dispute. Don't mistake the fact that "don't need to compete MOA" to be a great overclocker... with... don't need to be good to win MOA.... or even... don't be better to qualifier the best scores. Edited August 2, 2014 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) Yes, yes, let the hate flow through you. Dig up all that unused hatred. USA sucks and everybody hates them. 3rd world economies can just go blunny themselves because of sales. Ronaldo is a cheater... I hate splave or ronaldo just because.... THIS is the spirit boys, hate each other, point fingers, go wild... OR....maybe this is NOT what I was trying to say? No...actually, taking into consideration how difficult it is to make some fair rules, the guys who divided the world into EMEA, APAC and AM and said x places for each region did a pretty good hell of a job...And I am NOT kidding because it it not easy... The only thing I questioned was USA getting special treatment (which should not happen for no country ever - what, are you more special than anybody else?!?!?!?!). And I am really curious to see the numbers I requested NOT because I want to say "HA....I was right" But because I am really curious...And please admit that you guys are also... The place allocation is fine as it is. Seriously... I think it is fair and it reflects the overclocking business as it is now. The other post of mine was an answer to Splave who made fun of my country... Well, you can make as much fun as you wish, this does not change the fact we won 4x more times important championships as americans did... Nobody cares you have more ocers if they don't do nothing in REAL competitions and nobody cares about competitions with 6 people... Another thing... there are two type of challenges... WR and HWBot rankings, which are up to manufacturers employees, seeded people and people who have a lot of money and can bin sift.... And live events where it is also about luck (like in anything) but also about the skill to make the best of what you have. And that was the only place people from the 3rd world country like me and other ever had a chance. What, it takes no skill? Really??? I loled so much. That's why people who DIDN'T have the best CPU or VGA always win.... Get your facts straight if you don't know. THAT is not skill and taking down numbers with selected hardware is.... Funny... Keep believing that... The truth is that this was a hobby for friends, who really respect each other and trusted each other. We did this for fun and we were willing to help each other even in live events. Now it changed. That is why this discussion happened. If it changed for good or bad you boys decide. I am just telling you that being respected by 200 ppl and 2 manufacturers means shift in the real world. If you want to be a legend and you want people to respect you please have the proper behavior. Benching binned hardware means shift for the bigger base of customers and spectators. Understand that ...fast... or you will end up wondering why nobody cares about real oc (LN2) anymore. Edited August 2, 2014 by Monstru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex@ro Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Msi sucks hard,just make one damn online qualification for everyone,20 seats,with retail available everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) For what? For binners ? Make it as it used to be with country qualifiers and finals, not bunnyextraction online cheap creap... Nice stuff when manufacturers invest 10 times less money and then brag about WW event because the community allows them to.... Edited August 2, 2014 by Monstru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzolio Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 we need A and B class but yes ww qualifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Top 3 of 5 teams are usa/Canada based so what's wrong with us getting 2 spots. And yes best hw wins all the time show me when it hasn't. I hate no-one bro, seems you are trolling allot lately i'm not the only one to notice..what's wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I am not trolling man... I am sad to see where this sport is going and I am seeing it from a very good position in order to understand what will happen in 5 years... I just said no point in having special rules for a country. Northern America has 23 countries, in case you didn't notice. You can divide americas in North and South if you wish, and have separate qualifiers - sounds cool to me. You can have more spots ( I have no problem with 5 spots for NA and 5 for 5 for SA) - still cool if you ask me. Not cool however to have special rules for one country in an international event - only thing I said I repeat - the rest of my comments were directed to you because of the fun you made regarding sales. If you can make fun about the sales in my country I see no problem if I make fun about the numbers of wins my country had. Fair enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 And another hing... i'm not the only one to notice..what's wrong? When some 2nd tier oc'er start telling me in person in Computex that what we did is a thing of the past and the times changed and what we did does not matter anymore, excuse me if I get pissed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Of course you can say whatever you like man I have no problem. I didn't make fun of sales just stated maybe that's how they decided that's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) I didn't take your comment in a mean way, I just answered the same... Jesus Christ when did you EVER got into a fight with me? Or me with you? You're one of the nicest people I know Edited August 2, 2014 by Monstru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Not fighting we are just speaking our sides it's healthy bro Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Well...if AM qualifier started so many discussion I am really worried what will happen to EMEA qualifier ...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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