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New HWBOT Team Ranking


der8auer

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It's a strange example. But let me ask a question. Why are so many users inactive all year but suddenly join Team- and Country-Cup while they are not motivated to bench for the Team-Ranking?

It's a clear message to me that the people are still interested in the bot and like to bench (especially in a team) but not for the team-ranking.

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It's a strange example. But let me ask a question. Why are so many users inactive all year but suddenly join Team- and Country-Cup while they are not motivated to bench for the Team-Ranking?

It's a clear message to me that the people are still interested in the bot and like to bench (especially in a team) but not for the team-ranking.

Maybe they bench for profit because they thought there were prizes involved.

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It's a strange example. But let me ask a question. Why are so many users inactive all year but suddenly join Team- and Country-Cup while they are not motivated to bench for the Team-Ranking?

It's a clear message to me that the people are still interested in the bot and like to bench (especially in a team) but not for the team-ranking.

 

There is a lot of guys on my team that rarely buy new hardware, so these guys already ran all the benchmarks on the hardware that they already own and then they stay "inactive" for a while, then in Team/Country Cup there is a stage that they can use this hardware, so there is, these members are now "active". :)

 

These guys enjoy to bench for the team and competitions, but they simple doesn't have new hardware to do this more often.

 

 

Ah, sorry my poor english. :/

Edited by NoMS
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This aspect of HWBoint is the only area left where anyone on a team can make a difference so why not leave it the way it is and those teams that find it not their concepts op out and those teams that want to play recruit a grinder or encourage a diverse hardware selection. Seems more in line with a team effort than putting it in the hands of the hardware fortunate.

 

Judging by the interest my grandkids have in my benching( Maybe a little bubble & mist in pot might help) and as hardware trends are going overclocking as we know it is a dinosaur with a meteor in its future and for the faithful the biggest pile of bones wins.

Edited by Aleslammer
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This aspect of HWBoint is the only area left where anyone on a team can make a difference so why not leave it the way it is and those teams that find it not their concepts op out and those teams that want to play recruit a grinder or encourage a diverse hardware selection. Seems more in line with a team effort than putting it in the hands of the hardware fortunate.

 

Judging by the interest my grandkids have in my benching( Maybe a little bubble & mist in pot might help) and as hardware trends are going overclocking as we know it is a dinosaur with a meteor in its future and for the faithful the biggest pile of bones wins.

 

 

Let me highlight this:

 

...We can only do something like this alongside the current format. The goal is to make it more appealing to be part of the team again, something which is working well for some teams, but for a lot of teams it's not. ...

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Let me highlight this:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massman View Post

...We can only do something like this alongside the current format. The goal is to make it more appealing to be part of the team again, something which is working well for some teams, but for a lot of teams it's not. ...

 

How?

You can't have it both ways.

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Maybe there should be a time limit on inactivity before team points are stripped. Eg. after say a year of inactivity, team points from the inactive members are stripped from said teams.

 

That's actually not a bad idea!

 

It would give Team Captains an extra incentive to keep in touch with the entire community, would also increase the importance of the team member, and stops promoting large, inactive teams.

 

:celebration:

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Regarding the effective removing of inactive users I really like that and it will shake up the top 3 teams massively I'm sure, regarding the team cup thing I have personally spoke to those who have a lot more interest in focusing on the cup than the rankings as simply put it is more important to them.

 

To put it into sport terms, it is much more important for them to win the world cup than it is for them to be top 5 all year round and door poorly in the world cup.

 

Best kinda analogy I could come up with.

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That's actually not a bad idea!

 

It would give Team Captains an extra incentive to keep in touch with the entire community, would also increase the importance of the team member, and stops promoting large, inactive teams.

Example: one of teammates like knopflerbruce, who contribute 30k TPP to his team stops his activity for one year. Team points lost. Suddenly he back again and he's useless. What happens next? Tons of backups posted? Or all of his submissions should be really rebenched? Does his old result affect his new result in points and rankings in each category?

I predict fake (not really gained by this member) submissions for such accounts from team captains just to keep points.

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That's actually not a bad idea!

 

It would give Team Captains an extra incentive to keep in touch with the entire community, would also increase the importance of the team member, and stops promoting large, inactive teams.

 

:celebration:

 

Yea kinda. It's more like a punishment tho and not a motivation. Everything stays the same.

I guess the people who are already not happy with the current concept will just be pissed off and completely stop.

Edited by der8auer
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Why are so many users inactive all year but suddenly join Team- and Country-Cup while they are not motivated to bench for the Team-Ranking?

I took a part in OSIBS contest benching s370 in 3Dmark01 - just because I like the platform. I would never bench 01 otherwise with s370 in 2015. Actually team cups / country cups are quite specific and allow experiments you would never run (ram frequency with chipset that will not let you get top performance or top clocks etc). So it is better not associate your way to "enhance" team rankings and cups we already had here.

To make it short - hwbot cups are made for fun, your approach will ruin any fun.

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I have just read through all of this and I dont see how changing the team points scoring system which will chop some of the smaller teams off at the knees is going to promote Team collaboration it is just going to piss teams off that have been working hard for their team ranking.

Instead of changing the point system as it stands leave it be and people that primarily bench for team points can continue to do so without their team being dropped in the rankings.

I am sure that we can all agree that the Road to Pro series is a roaring success but its every man for himself so why not next year you run 3 competitions just like the Teams Cup in parallel or staggered with the Road to Pro series and the points gained from each stage would be added to the team points instead of to the individual overclockers or the overclockers could get points too.

Lets face it there is nothing like a Competition to get everyone active and if there is Team Based Competitions for most of the year there will be Team Collaboration.

Because at the moment there is only 1 competition in the year that is team based and thats the Team Cup the Country Cup is not really team based I bench for an American team and I am an Australian but if there is something I can do for Australia in the Country Cup I will be benching it.

All in all if you want more team collaboration you will get it with more team based competitions.

 

Now if I have got this right I am thinking of investing in Skylake next week and 2 people on my team have already got them so if I get a less than great chip and I submit slower scores than my teammates I am only going to hurt the team average correct.

So why would I submit with it at all if its not a great chip.

In fact it makes me even wonder if its worth getting it.

Is that the Team Collaboration we are all after.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Edited by macsbeach98
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It's a strange example. But let me ask a question. Why are so many users inactive all year but suddenly join Team- and Country-Cup while they are not motivated to bench for the Team-Ranking?

It's a clear message to me that the people are still interested in the bot and like to bench (especially in a team) but not for the team-ranking.

 

You may be correct, but it could also be just a case of a casual interest. Personally, and maybe you as well, can't understand a casual interest, but there may be people that will only get motivated to put together a bench session if there is a competition among your mates to do it. A year long ranking system just doesn't have the same sense of urgency.

 

Also, as others have said, the Team Cup/ Country Cup is very casual friendly. The stages are usually pretty cheap to enter and may use hardware stored in closets and garages. I think its a pretty good indication that those competition formats work well.

 

Your chart helped out a lot with the explanation. I actually rather like the idea but also can see some problems. A team with only 1 member that only uses very high end hardware would have a large advantage, since its a average of unique hardware. This artificial team would not be bogged down by scores on older platforms. Also teams that did not use newer hardware may end up with incredibly artificially low scores (imagine a team stuck in 2005 at Socket 775).

 

I suspect the large backlash against the concept is because it seems counter intuitive. The Top 3 teams are in the position they are in (with the exception of Knopflerbruce) mostly because of the way the HWBOT focuses so heavily on newest generation. I would suggest they are there by accident, not by any desire from their members to increase their team ranking. I think this is confirmed by the fact that none of the Top-3 teams even bother to participate in the Team Cup, which sees a great deal of participation from other members.

 

By setting up a system that focuses on Globals and by extension then, newest generation hardware it seems to be catering to the very members/teams that don't have more than a passing interest in the Team Rankings.

 

I like the concept of this ranking system by why not use hardware points instead? I'll make a radical assumption but I suspect that most of the guys interested in Team Ranking grind out the hardware side of it compared to the globals. It doesn't work as cleanly as globals because there is already a set amount of benchmarks that use globals, but a picked set of benchmarks and the most popular (or all) sockets/GPU series average score. Each socket/series added like you proposed to give a team ranking.

 

At any rate, since your system would run alongside the actual Team Rankings, I think it might be interesting to see what happens since its quite the grand departure from the traditional rankings. My only fear that focusing on newest generation hardware may actually alienate the guys that actually do care about the Team Rankings.

 

Sidenote: Since we are talking ways to shake up the Team Rankings, why doesn't the 2015 Team Cup as a prize hand out Competition Points to the Teams that ranked highly. These points are only good until next Team Cup then they expire. A temporary boost for this year's winners in the ranking.

 

Example (just throwing out values):

 

1st - ClassicPlatforms - 10000 Team Pt

2nd - Overclock.net - 20000 Team Pt

3rd - AwardFabrik - 5000 Team Pt

4th - Overclockers.com - 2500 team Pt

 

etc...

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I knew it.

That's bunnyextraction.

You effectively kill my team with that change. See post #21.

 

we have killed your team every generation of change :) you guys always find a way to come back ;)

 

 

anyways any activity on hwbot is good activity for hwbot and the community so try not to trash the guys that bench old old gear. I see the der8auer way as making older not old old hw more important. IE for 32m you'd need the last 20 top 32m CPUs and that could take some creativity and spur some people to try different things, say running the cheaper chips from the most current generations which could help with costs for newbies.

Edited by Splave
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Your chart helped out a lot with the explanation. I actually rather like the idea but also can see some problems. A team with only 1 member that only uses very high end hardware would have a large advantage, since its a average of unique hardware. This artificial team would not be bogged down by scores on older platforms. Also teams that did not use newer hardware may end up with incredibly artificially low scores (imagine a team stuck in 2005 at Socket 775).

 

The point of the system is that you have to have a certain amount of scores to be listet at the top. Take a look at my drawing again and check the part where you can see "SuperPi32m Team Ranking". You can see Team C has a better average than the rest but is ranked lower because it only has 8 instead of 10 scores which count to the average. So even if a team would have 6 insane scores with the latest hardware a team with 7 very slow and old scores would still be ranked higher.

 

 

I like the concept of this ranking system by why not use hardware points instead? I'll make a radical assumption but I suspect that most of the guys interested in Team Ranking grind out the hardware side of it compared to the globals. It doesn't work as cleanly as globals because there is already a set amount of benchmarks that use globals, but a picked set of benchmarks and the most popular (or all) sockets/GPU series average score. Each socket/series added like you proposed to give a team ranking.

 

At any rate, since your system would run alongside the actual Team Rankings, I think it might be interesting to see what happens since its quite the grand departure from the traditional rankings. My only fear that focusing on newest generation hardware may actually alienate the guys that actually do care about the Team Rankings.

 

Exactly. At least testing the ranking alongside the normal Team Ranking wouldn't harm anyone but we could see what happens.

 

The global focus will become smaller depending on the amount of scores we require for the team-average and if there are any additional limiting factors. For example 50 different CPUs would move the focus away from recent hardware. Another approach could be to limit the amount of CPUs per generation. A split in hardware and global ranking would also be possible. E. g. everything from Sandy Bridge and newer would count to global and everything below to hardware.

Edited by der8auer
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Maybe there should be a time limit on inactivity before team points are stripped. Eg. after say a year of inactivity, team points from the inactive members are stripped from said teams.

 

It is very, very bad idea. And here's why. At the time, the person was respected, earned a millions of points, but he grew up, family, children. Why should we forget his contribution to the Team? And if in its place are you going? After 5 to 7 years. So completely lost motivation. Knowing that all your achievements will be forgotten in the future, why bother to do something now? It would be better to direct energy to the prize pool for all OC-Esports competition.

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Bench impossible to make a man, if he does not have time for this, and opportunities.

Everyone decides for itself - how much and for which he Bench.

Someone for its rating, someone to team rankings, someone to help the team in tournaments ...

It is not necessary to present all the same.

Everyone is different with different motives.

I just love and fun - this is my hobby)))

And I'm helping my team.

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Example (just throwing out values):

 

1st - ClassicPlatforms - 10000 Team Pt

2nd - Overclock.net - 20000 Team Pt

3rd - AwardFabrik - 5000 Team Pt

4th - Overclockers.com - 2500 team Pt

 

etc...

 

I see what you did there. :D

 

we have killed your team every generation of change :) you guys always find a way to come back ;)

 

 

That's how you know we're interested. ;)

We will always try to find a way.

Classicplatforms is the Antichrist of competitive benching. It's not the norm to be such a small team on mostly 3+ generation old hardware and still be ranked in the top 5. The guys put in quite a bit of effort to maintain that.

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It's a strange example. But let me ask a question. Why are so many users inactive all year but suddenly join Team- and Country-Cup while they are not motivated to bench for the Team-Ranking?

It's a clear message to me that the people are still interested in the bot and like to bench (especially in a team) but not for the team-ranking.

 

I feel like I'm in a decent position to respond to this query. My team, Hardware Canucks, has had what I would describe as a passing interest in overclocking. There was once a time when we had guys like 3oh6 and Eldonko on staff, and yet they still benched for different teams. So competitive overclocking never really became part of our culture.

 

Following a moderately successful Country Cup 2012 in which Canada placed seventh, myself and another team member attempted to keep the momentum going at HWC with regular intra-team competitions in the style of OCN. Initial response was very encouraging, but interest and participation waned with each successive comp. In the first comp, we generated 15 submissions (including Rasparthe, because he's an animal), but by the sixth comp, mine was the only submission. There was no seventh comp. And yet when County Cup 2013 came rolling around, the team got excited again.

 

Bandwagoneering is what it's all about. I'll use the Toronto Blue Jays as an example - during the dog days of summer, only the diehards pay much attention, but during a pennant race, everybody is Superfan No. 1.

 

And that's what events like the Team Cup and Country Cup do - they give team captains something to work with in terms of motivating their members in a way they simply can't during the rest of the year no matter how much time and effort they put in.

 

edit - And I don't mean to suggest that we need more large-scale team-based events throughout the year. Not at all! Doing something like that would only take away from the uniqueness of the Team and Country Cups, make them less special. We need them to stay special. However, ongoing minor team events (like OSIBS, for example) might yet prove effective in encouraging participation from teams such as mine. We just haven't seen it yet.

Edited by Dead Things
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Example: one of teammates like knopflerbruce, who contribute 30k TPP to his team stops his activity for one year. Team points lost. Suddenly he back again and he's useless. What happens next? Tons of backups posted? Or all of his submissions should be really rebenched? Does his old result affect his new result in points and rankings in each category?

I predict fake (not really gained by this member) submissions for such accounts from team captains just to keep points.

 

I guess it doesn't matter if it's Knobblerbrute or whoever, whatever team we talk about there's always the possibility of some funny stuff going on.

 

Hopefully the respective captains of each team will help keep things straight.

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