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Christian Ney

Cooling: What can we do, what do you want?

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So, I'll ask again. Cheating....or not? According to your post, it is. Do you expect this guy to warm his water up? You're out of your mind.

 

but if a guy lives where it snows and benches outside (madness) what does that classify as?

*for me its impossible here..

 

from my perspective as a rookie, subzero is a killer on scores in the competitons..

i mainly use air and aio ,, soon water , next 3months dice..

 

because take like 3dmark , a guy that clock on dice/ln2 will beat living daylights out of me with the same graphics card..

 

let take e8600&8800gt ..

air &water = ill do avg scores

subzero = will be double mine if im very unlucky....

 

but end of the day, it make it more challenging for me ..

u must learn tricks of the trade somehow..

 

ps: sorry for the bad english here..

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but if a guy lives where it snows and benches outside (madness) what does that classify as?

*for me its impossible here..

 

from my perspective as a rookie, subzero is a killer on scores in the competitons..

i mainly use air and aio ,, soon water , next 3months dice..

 

because take like 3dmark , a guy that clock on dice/ln2 will beat living daylights out of me with the same graphics card..

 

let take e8600&8800gt ..

air &water = ill do avg scores

subzero = will be double mine if im very unlucky....

 

but end of the day, it make it more challenging for me ..

u must learn tricks of the trade somehow..

 

ps: sorry for the bad english here..

 

Nothing stopping you from ice water man. Ice is available even in Africa. Have at it. ;)

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"Enhanced" water cooling could be used in Enthusiasts as long as it doesn't require additionnal electrical source.

So Peltier, chiller, nop.

 

Ice, salt, alcohol, yes, only powered by mother nature & chemical science.

 

But always based on honesty, which can be NEVER verified. Even if we talk about it for centuries.

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So, I'll ask again. Cheating....or not? According to your post, it is. Do you expect this guy to warm his water up? You're out of your mind.

No, but he should not compete in the same league as people using normal room temperature to cool there CPU/gpu. I do not consider running tap water normal cooling. Again I state that the problem is lack of separation clarification between the leagues, not people breaking the rules.

 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

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No, but he should not compete in the same league as people using normal room temperature to cool there CPU/gpu. I do not consider running tap water normal cooling. Again I state that the problem is lack of separation clarification between the leagues, not people breaking the rules.

 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

 

Tap to drain cooling is usually everybody's first water benching attempt.

You cannot have separation clarification without something to verify actual temp. THAT, is the problem.

You're the one that brought up cheating. It's not cheating until you can prove that somebody is breaking the rules.......and you can't make rules that you can't prove are being broken.

See the problem here?

 

When temp can be proven indisputably, I have no problem with separation by cooling method.

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Usually ice/chiller is needed to enthusiast from equator/tropical region (with 22-38 Celcius all the time no matter what season with 70-100% humidity) who is competing with much more cooler region. My country is one case that Ice is needed, even with ice is hard to get 20 Celcius idle on my oced G3258. This is maybe the case when chiller or ice is needed.

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Guest george.kokovinis

 

When temp can be proven indisputably, I have no problem with separation by cooling method.

 

My friend and Team Captain summarized everything.

Technically, there are things that simply can't be done.

 

In the court of law, it must be proven BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT

that the accused is guilty.

Otherwise he is innocent.

 

Can anyone REALLY believe that there is technically a remote way of

verifying this ?

 

NO.

 

What are we talking about ?

It is a dead end.

Massman knows it, Christian Ney knows it, everyone knows it.

Even this thread is a nice cover-up of the truth.

 

Nothing can be done.

 

The huge mistake is elsewhere.

Not in Team Leagues.

Not on Overclockers Leagues.

 

The mistake is in competitions, where money and significant prizes

are given.

 

The first rule of FBI.

Follow the money.

In normal benching for points, maybe the vast majority would not even consider the possibility of diving a quadruple radiator in a huge bucket of

ice with salt and antifreeze.

Not even a radiator is needed.

Two meters of tube in this bucket with a Laing pump that does not break on cold and you are done.

 

So what are you trying to sort out.

If I personally decide to do it, in two days I will have 1500 globals and all

extreme and Elite players will shout that I am a cheater.

 

Prove it.

 

Folks, it is not up to us to restructure the Leagues or the competitions.

This is the responsibility of others.

 

Two angles of viewing our participation here.

 

1) Fun and learning

2) Money and prizes.

 

Take your pick and do what you want.

No one will be ever able to tell you - " You are guilty "

HE CANT PROVE IT.

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Two angles of viewing our participation here.

 

1) Fun and learning

2) Money and prizes

This! Thats why its not good too long live in Enthusiast League & Competing in competition doing many wins and still in Enthusiast. Thats why HWBot must doing something like winning 1, 2 or 3 times in Enthusiast League will automatically going to Apprentice League or like after 1 year in Enthusiast League and will automatically move to Apprentice League. Because i like Fun & Learning but many people doing it to get money & prizes. This is what i dont like because overclocking from beginning is for fun.

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This is exactly what I proposed lately, either you move up to apprentice after a certain amount of prozes you won at a competition season or you are blocked from comps for prizes. It is inaccepatable that at a hobby league people spend more money for binning, hardware and cooling than some elite ocers do and "we" partly finance this, this is a league for hobby ocers and people who enjoy it - you want to do a pro effort, level up... I am tired of hwbot organized competitions financing camouflaged Pros, nothing personal, but this is a perversion of the system. No idea if this will be implemented, but I would approve this strongly. The problem that some people cannot get LN2 is still valid, but when I look at last year, this is not applying to nearly all leading el ocers...

Edited by websmile

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Guest george.kokovinis
This is exactly what I proposed lately, either you move up to apprentice after a certain amount of prozes you won at a competition season or you are blocked from comps for prizes. It is inaccepatable that at a hobby league people spend more money for binning, hardware and cooling than some elite ocers do and "we" partly finance this, this is a league for hobby ocers and people who enjoy it - you want to do a pro effort, level up... I am tired of hwbot organized competitions financing camouflaged Pros, nothing personal, but this is a perversion of the system. No idea if this will be implemented, but I would approve this strongly. The problem that some people cannot get LN2 is still valid, but when I look at last year, this is not applying to nearly all leading el ocers...

 

Agreed, only thing Michael is that you are telling these to the wrong audience.

We, do not make the rules.

We do not cover-up camouflaged pros.

 

The existing system does.

We bench under the rules ( vague rules ) that are implemented.

 

 

Best,

 

 

George:)

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This is the right audience, George - I proposed this as a discussion base a while ago, but this directly influences enthusiast benching in the future if we implement this, I see no reason to do this in the dark. We need feedback to see if the idea make sense to the benchers which will be touched by this change if it is done and what you all think about it

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Thanks for the feedback, I will take this thread with me on my flight to Canada next Wednesday and try to come up with something.

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I think people that can afford binning, chiller, etc, they can afford LN2 too. Because i can't afford binning but i trying to afford LN2, first buy Pot, now i buy dewar. Avaibility is pretty good too! Because i live in small city in Indonesia and LN2 is avaible ;)

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Guest george.kokovinis

If you did not notice, Mr.Ney ( Chris ), thanked us very kindly for our feedback, which he will take into serious consideration for his decisions.

 

I personally have huge respect and trust in Chris.

So, I think that any further discussion is for us only ( rather useless ).

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Hello Everybody. :)

 

What do I want from the competition rules? Fairness.

I've studied this subject from the very beginning of me on HWBOT. I'm competing for over a year.

 

Firts thing: I was tuning 2x E5-2696v4 four days to get the Global Record in HWBOT265... and few more days for other benchmarks.WAter Cooling and Air Cooling.

This is information about speed a normal or professional user can get.

Guys from Elite got i9-7960X, for free, ES.

I've lost 100 points. Well now 200...

Elite: can do OC with extreme coolants , are given ES & QS chips.

How to compete with something like that? Does anyone think it's fair?

How can You give global points for something that is strictly unfair. Or this all forum is all about promotion of product...

Promotion that is not giving any true information - There were no test with Air nor water cooling.

 

Elite: They should be getting other points. Of course those WR should be listed, but not without mark that this is an Elite score, done by paid or otherly rewarded specialist with totally different cooling approach.

 

Second thing |: You have to be a bad or unexperienced OCer, or totally loose silicon lottery to get worse score on LN2 than with H20, AIO or AIR.

But we compete in Global Points between Leagues.... well, not everybody wan't to use LN2, LH or other impractical cooling solutions. Why? Beacasue for instance it doesn't matter for 99,9% of PC/WS users.

 

Those two things are that kills the competition spirit - in theory everyone has the same chances. But nope. We don't have same chances now.

 

My proposition: Make 2 Groups depending on the cooling, and for those 2 groups Global point are dependent from a Group of cooling. The table of scores would be able to be sorted by score or by points

Not much to do: just another descriptor.

 

1. Extreme--------------------- 2. Conventional

LN2,DICE,LH ----------------- Air, H20, AIO, Glikol, alkohol etc.

 

Extreme is defined by something which we do not normally have at home.

Conventional is defined by something standard, that we do normally have or could have at home or do by ourselves, would not have to investigate it more often than in 7 days for instance (maybe months..).

 

Extreme Cooling Group - Elite, Extreme, Apprentice (Extreme Novice)

Conventional Cooling Group - Rookie, Novice, Enthusiast

 

The Global Points are different fo ES/QS/Unreleased/TBS CPUs (or GPUs) - those are Elite points - and they 're not getting into standard ranking

or ES submission are never getting any points or they're not getting any points until those chips are available on the second hand market and allowed to be used by public.

Still Intel or AMD will give the best to Elite, and so it's still a bit unfair but much more fair than now.

 

There should be option to tick - Elite Record - and You get Elite Points and it's not getting into World Record nor Global nor HW Points.

 

The competition would be much tighter and much more intense for sure.

Much more in this competion would be depending from money, much more from the best settings & precise regulation.

 

Also I would choose the colors for those Groups - Elite - like it is. Extreme - red, Conventional - blue.

 

What do You think about that kind of an idea?

Edited by ADVenturePO

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I think you're a little misinformed, and I think you're about to be flamed by a few hundred people at least.

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So just curious . is dice still in apprentice and ln2 in different category? nice one...

 

heres an idea lets remove points on the benches that i need to run the old hardware i bought and lump sub Zero cooling with water ..

oh wait .. you did that last year ...

 

never mind. ..

 

just like fantastic 4.. Flame on ;>

 

* edit .. i respect current admin and I'm happy to follow any rules decided by them. peace.

Edited by sunset1

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Gentlemen,

 

Mr Scott : You're joking?

sunset 1: Read again and try to understand.

 

1st : This is in HWBOT Competition - for all submitters.

2nd: This is about cooling.

3rd: Sunset1: Who does use dice for 24/7 or 16/7 or even 8/7 ? Same with LN2...

4th: Mr. Scott. I don't mind being flamed, burned, offended even - that is the human nature - You're defending Your points, understandable.

"Normal" I'd say.

 

Who said Thank You to both replies:

 

Scott - Apprentice

Gunslinger - Extreme

GtiJason - Extreme

Samsarulz - Extreme

zeropluszero - Elite

wiLLius - Extreme

suzuki - Enthusiast (traitor :) )

 

Mr.Scott, please be so kind and enlighten me with the wrongfulness of my statement as I'm unable to do so by myself. As it is my statement and I'm truly into it....

 

This wasn't a discussion it was a cut. If You could please get a bit more involved.... I'd be thankful.

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I'm actually trying NOT to get involved, as this subject has been beaten to death here already.

The misinformation:

Very, very, few Elites, or anybody else for that matter, get anything for free.

Most of the people that do, actually work in the industry for manufacturers. Testing/benching is part of their job. Hardware samples is one of their perks. Don't tell me that you get no perks at your job, because everybody does one way or another.

 

Extreme is defined by something which we do not normally have at home.

Not necessarily true.

You have ice at home right?

What if my home was in Siberia? I'd have access to -50 degree air, and sub zero water.

Edited by Mr.Scott

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I'll throw in - Yes I'm in the apprentice league yet the vast majority of what I've been doing is still on water with plenty of subs to back that up including all of my recent subs.

In fact I don't believe I've benched with DICE for awhile now.

 

I also don't have the "Northern Advantage" working for any benefit yet I have and still manage to beat subs done on all forms of cooling from air to LN2 while benching my hardware on water.

I'll just say it - You're looking to score E-Z points and they're not coming your way.

 

Just get over it already.

 

Although I do wish maybe one day I could give LN2 a try ain't happening anytime soon for me and frankly I LOVE being able to beat guys with more extreme forms of cooling. I know I can't speak for anyone else but as for myself - I do enjoy the challenge of it. It forces me to do better, improve and to keep pushing things to the limit.... And that's not a bad thing.

 

Whether you like it or not the site isn't here to comform to your personal expectations of.... Anything.

Either accept the fact we're all lumped into the same boat or bail.

Edited by Bones

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Cannot find the leagues rules on hwbot. If i submit with dice cooling,i will be moved in apprentice or extreme ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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remind me to sign up an account with Antarctica as my country, claim air cooling on all my submissions.

You'll be fine. No possible way to prove/disprove temps. :D

Edited by Mr.Scott

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