Good morning

 

hope this will be the right place

 

I recently buyed an HD6950 to partecipate at the Team Cup and, looking around about benchmark results, I notified that several benckmark are made with a "supposed" HD6950 with 1536 shaders (HD6970 bios, effective HD6950 has 1408 shaders).

 

Is it acceptable? Is it valid?

 

Thank You for Your attention and sorry for my poor english

i hope not !

in 3dmark 06 ranking first 5 only 2 use real 6950

same shit like gtx 260 192\216-spend days reporting people-and i dont like to do that

As someone who has an unlockable but not yet unlocked 6950 I'd be interested to hear what the official answer on this is - and similarly for athlons unlocked into B-series Phenoms.

I made a request, what is most funny is that leader at 3dm06 uses a native 6970 when I look a device ID...

any news?

Shader unlock to 6970 is a common mod on a 6950. Totally acceptable. Per HWB rules, you still sub as the original piece of hardware.

Mr Scott is right, but this makes problems at 6970 category now because we have a lot of unlocked 6950s there at checking - plus we have 6970 at 6950 category which hints for people being very confused or cheating^^

Shader unlock to 6970 is a common mod on a 6950. Totally acceptable. Per HWB rules, you still sub as the original piece of hardware.

 

Mr Scott is right, but this makes problems at 6970 category now because we have a lot of unlocked 6950s there at checking - plus we have 6970 at 6950 category which hints for people being very confused or cheating^^

 

"Common mod", I don't agree. IMHO obviously

 

I had some R9 290 and some 290X; as we all know some of 290 were unlockable to 290X; I used to sub 290X as 290X, 290@290X as 290X and 290 as 290

 

A 6950 unlocked to 6970 is a 6970, at all. I suppose.

 

By the way, I hope for the team cup 6950 will be 6950, 6970 will be 6970.

Do 6950@6970 will be 6950?

The 6950 unlocked will count as 6950 for team cup as well. This is a very old rule, that came with 6800 NV iirc, seems to be still valid. Christian Ney works on making this more safe though, we will ask for picture of card and label most likely.

The model of a card is determined by device ID, especially on amd this is very hard if we do not go after this because they give a xxxx about this and rebrand day and niight^^

Ok, so it's acceptable flash @6970 and still sub as a HD6950.

Yes - but it cannot be submitted at 6970 after flash - it is only way to find a pattern that deals with card ID, thanks btw for raising the topic

Ok.

 

So, if e.g. I have an HD6970 I have to sub always as a 6970; I don't have to flash to 6950 or 6930 to sub also as be a 6950 or 6930, correct?

 

For my knowledge: where do I can found the rule about that we are discussing?

 

Thank You in advance

General rules, 3.2 paragraph D - I wanted to make sure this also covers this case like I thought, and it is indeed still valid

Read.

 

Just an ethic point of view: if, due to unlock shader, my result submission is best respect a non-unlock, do I can partecipate on the same stage/benchmark?

Please keep the hardware at its original place, it is hard enough for us to keep track even now. Even if your unlock 6950 beats best 6970, keep it at 6950. I hope I understood your question correctly, if not feel free to explain again

I think You understood my question

 

About me I'm just training with my 6950, still no flash or something more

 

My question was about ethic, I'll made an example:

 

Unigine Heaven Extreme with original HD6950, e.g. 925/1300 (quite average frequencies, I guess); result 1300 (just for example)

 

After that I unlock the vga and, at same frequencies, the result will be better than the previous one. It is valid and admitted, but, imho, not legit

I guess the logic is that it's about seeing how far you can take hardware from what you buy at retail to the most tuned - with OS tuning, power limit mods, voltage mods and cooling mods - and unlocking shaders is just another part of that. You don't call a 6950 a 6970 because of unlocked cores any more than you call a 7970 a 280X because of a small overclock. Plus it solves the problem of what to do if someone unlocks one of the two disabled CUs on a Fury.

 

D – Hardware Unlocking

 

Again this is a subject where we have to trust on the honesty of the submitter; if you have a CPU with unlocked multiplier, please only submit results under the hardware category of its original model. Don’t emulate other models to gain HWboints, if you are caught you will get penalized or even banned. The same goes for video cards which are modified either with a flashed BIOS or modded software, post your scores in the category of the original hardware.

 

It is allowed to unlock extra cores and cache if your processor allows that. Again, you do have to submit your result to the category of the original hardware.

 

BRB unlocking my athlon X3 and rerunning all the multicore benchmarks.

 

Also, I actually ended up using google to find HWBOT General Rules and Guidelines - is there a link somewhere obvious that I'm missing? (yes, i went 2 and a half months without having read the global rules, bad rookie - having read them now I'm sure all my subs are fine, hooray for common sense and asking noob questions on /r/overclocking)

exactly same setting result of hd 6950 with & without extra shaders unlocked.

 

g3258@4700, mem 1498mhz(2996). gain is around 6% by unlocking from hd 6950 to hd 6970. gpu clocks 953/1382.

 

ksateaaa23`s Unigine Heaven - Xtreme Preset score: 1523.03 DX11 Marks with a Radeon HD 6950

 

 

ksateaaa23`s Unigine Heaven - Xtreme Preset score: 1612.22 DX11 Marks with a Radeon HD 6950

 

but it is a proper hd 6950 which has dual bios swith(sapphire brand)

Edited July 22, 20169 yr by ksateaaa23

Too complicated to make extra category for this, and when AMD decides to sell hardware this way, we cannot influence this. When we force 6950 unlocked to 6970, people will ask "why" as well, because standard clocks of 6970 are a lot higher than 6950. So we take the old solution that worked long years, for me this is no questions of ethics, if we discuss this way what do we say about voltmodding and epower then? You are forced to destroy a card more or less to be successful... If one does, all others have to do as well, and this moves on to cooling, binning etc. Hardware is the way it is, some if unlockable, if you want to win search for these modles

i post scores in same fashion then superpatodonaldo.

i even write that i unlocked my 290 to 290x and for sure i put it in 290x category. this is normal behavior for me.

and mr.websmile you say its the old way and that worked for years.

i think this category is best example thats not working here.

The problem with submitting an unlocked card as the emulated model is, for example, the top scores with a 290X are worth substantially more hardware points than the top subs with a 290.

 

3DMark03 for example has 63 subs with a 290 and 148 subs with a 290X, and as a result #1 with a 290 is worth 12.2 hardware points whereas #1 with a 290X is worth 29.2. So even if someone 100% has only the best intentions, by putting 290 results down as what is technically the wrong hardware they actually could easily end up benefiting.

The problem with submitting an unlocked card as the emulated model is, for example, the top scores with a 290X are worth substantially more hardware points than the top subs with a 290.

 

3DMark03 for example has 63 subs with a 290 and 148 subs with a 290X, and as a result #1 with a 290 is worth 12.2 hardware points whereas #1 with a 290X is worth 29.2. So even if someone 100% has only the best intentions, by putting 290 results down as what is technically the wrong hardware they actually could easily end up benefiting.

Exactly correct.

The unscrupulous could even double dip points in two categories on the same card. I'm sure this has been happening for a long time now.

Thanks to everybody for participate at the thread

 

exactly same setting result of hd 6950 with & without extra shaders unlocked.

 

g3258@4700, mem 1498mhz(2996). gain is around 6% by unlocking from hd 6950 to hd 6970. gpu clocks 953/1382.

 

ksateaaa23`s Unigine Heaven - Xtreme Preset score: 1523.03 DX11 Marks with a Radeon HD 6950

 

 

ksateaaa23`s Unigine Heaven - Xtreme Preset score: 1612.22 DX11 Marks with a Radeon HD 6950

 

but it is a proper hd 6950 which has dual bios swith(sapphire brand)

Thank you for your test, in this way using an unlocked 6950 sounds to me benching with a 6970.

I understand the rule about proper hardware but the best scenario (IMHO) shall be have a separate ranking for unlocked 6950, probably difficult to manage.

A volt mod (and something else more) helps you to overclock, gain frequencies and have better perform, but not at the same frequencies

i post scores in same fashion then superpatodonaldo.

i even write that i unlocked my 290 to 290x and for sure i put it in 290x category. this is normal behavior for me.

and mr.websmile you say its the old way and that worked for years.

i think this category is best example thats not working here.

 

This is the best example that some people are too lazy to read the rules or to understand even crystal clear formulated rules, or obviously simply ignore them - this is what you prove . This whole unlock "plan" by amd plus the tons of rebrands they produce without even changing device ids makes especially handling vga categories by AMD extremely hard. We can only rely on people to go by rules that we try to keep as easy as possible. I do not think that ignoring these is helpful attitude, and it also is not helpful for a fair competition between benchers.

 

P.S. @superpatodonaldo We currently discuss if we use a similar solution like we use on unlocked cpus, where all cpus go to same category but different ranking. Not sure this makes sense though, it will make the category more or less worthless for ranking when it is split up on points, but it could be technically done. In the end for staff it will not change much imho because lots of people will still don´t care where they submit to^^

Edited July 23, 20169 yr by websmile

i can only say that the explanation from mickulty is better then your cannot read the crystal clear rules.

i had 2x290 from which 1x was unlocked-so for me the natural is going to 290x category.

in all my years i had 1 result blocked and that was my fault.

i know there is a lot of work behind hwbot and i would not want an extra category for unlocked 6950,but for me an unlocked 290 is a 290x.

these are just different opinions but i would never call ya lazy.

 

and fair for me is not benching a unlocked card in the normal category-its just my opinion-but i can take down my scores.

have a nice weekend all

Edited July 24, 20169 yr by basco