WhiteWulfe Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 That is just to generalize things up. If we go back to where this transpired, I think you will agree with the idea that BIG NAMES get away with these crap more often than the smaller guys. Sure seems to be the case. A big name was heavily involved in the Cinebench image rendering scheme, yet all they had to do was post a guide and everything was called even. No loss of points, no loss of standings, and no loss of sponsors. Not even a temporary ban on the person who did it, and helped their sponsors and other elite members profit from it. If that happened in any sort of organized sport (say, I dunno, racing, where a thousandth of a second can be the difference between first and second place) there would be some serious ramifications for such. Such has also happened in the professional eSports community with teams that were caught using exploits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancop Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Calling for 1 year ban here instead of a month, but there was not a single consequence for the Cinebench debacle IIRC. Seems fair?? Also some people (know of atleast 1 instance) submitted scores with the modified cinebench files after the whole thing was over & there scores were deleted by the mods, who now knew what to look for. But the person who submitted the scores wasn't banned. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Just to make one thing clear... I don't call for a ban! This wise, critical and difficult decision has to be done by hwbot. I just stated... Rules are rules, no matter who's going to break them. Gesendet von meinem ONEPLUS A5000 mit Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Yes, I agree with what you say. All I argue is that the judgement has to be impartial. If the consequence for similar actions from 2 different people are different for both, then I would argue that the judgement was not impartial. Start naming names I'd rather avoid the Vendetta accusations. But will do if absolutely necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauf Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Would it make everyone feel better if I told you seaga should actually be in Elite league? It's just that nobody cared to "report" him as elite. He benched his way to nr1 using ES 1080ti with ES bios... All I really see here is the usual elite-envy. Trust me, it's not as glamorous as you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mus1mus Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Ohhh, I wouldn't go that far. Watch overclocking tv's commentary on his scores. Everyone got surprised that an Extreme League member topped the charts for a day or two. "A name we can't even pronounce" crap. I'll just it here then. This isn't Elite-Envy. When an Elite is beating Extreme League guys on X265 and Cinebench I am just thinking of them as his way on tweaks around stuff. Makes it dubious now. Edited August 23, 2017 by mus1mus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew pro Posted August 23, 2017 Crew Share Posted August 23, 2017 I also dont know the circumstances with the cinebench situation other than how the cheat worked, however i tend to agree with some of the guys there questioning thr handling of that situation verses this Afaik, please correct me if im wrong, no bans were given during the cine situation, yet the manipulation of the benchmark was imho worse with files being replaced in that situation than x265 where its a timer issue, dont get me wrong, both are bad, but any time your editing files in yhe benchmark itself its as bad a cheat as you can get Im not calling for bans or no bans, honestly i dont care thr outcome, but i do call for consistency Even if it's not the case, we cant be seen to be giving leniency to more well known users in a more serious chesting case, and then immediately banning a lesser known user at the first chance we get Lets treat all hwbot users equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Would it make everyone feel better if I told you seaga should actually be in Elite league? It's just that nobody cared to "report" him as elite. He benched his way to nr1 using ES 1080ti with ES bios... All I really see here is the usual elite-envy. Trust me, it's not as glamorous as you think That BIOS is available to any Ln2 Overclocker participating in Galax Comp, Extreme or otherwise. It was the same last year, so I'm not sure if that makes him an Elite. There's no elite envy, just pointing out the inconsistency in consequences for rule breaking actions. But if you wanna play the victim card, go right ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauf Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 That BIOS is available to any Ln2 Overclocker participating in Galax Comp, Extreme or otherwise. It was the same last year, so I'm not sure if that makes him an Elite. There's no elite envy, just pointing out the inconsistency in consequences for rule breaking actions. But if you wanna play the victim card, go right ahead. You don't know what you're talking about. The goc bios was not released until a few days ago. And was specifically designed to not work with the es cards. So that they could not be used for the comp. But I guess you know everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 You don't know what you're talking about. The goc bios was not released until a few days ago. And was specifically designed to not work with the es cards. So that they could not be used for the comp. But I guess you know everything...Yes, you would definitely know better than me when it comes to Galax stuff. I will not argue otherwise. All I know that I also read on FB that GOC bios is designed to not work with ES cards. But I think he used a retail card. I believe it is possible to tell from the Device ID, but his scores are gone, so can't check anymore. Do you have a screenshot that shows that he used an ES card? And even if it makes him an elite, doesn't change the fact that if Hwbot were to ban him, a similar action is warranted against the Cinebench cheaters, Elite or otherwise. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators websmile Posted August 23, 2017 Administrators Share Posted August 23, 2017 This situation is by no way comparable with the cinebench desaster. Hwbot partially was responsible for this by making cr.... rules. It was not mandatory to show the rendered image, neither in parts or in full and apart from a paragraph at general rules there was no hint on file editing (people should have known better, but loophole searcher are what we see all the time). We have no time measurement and no validation file at cinebench, and in fact banning people would have been a good idea, but the simple question of whom to ban, whom not and the high possibility of error lead to noone being banned because proof was really hard to get. I think hwbot learned from this, and it is no matter of Elite, extreme or enthusiast league. We applied a lot of bans last nine months, more than we wanted, and it did hit high ranked guys/ known ocers from all leagues now. Wish we could handle this differently, but like in all sports and competition cheat happens, and all we can do is to apply the rules. Minor violation, minor sentence, big cheat, long ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RULE Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Yes, you would definitely know better than me when it comes to Galax stuff. I will not argue otherwise. All I know that I also read on FB that GOC bios is designed to not work with ES cards. But I think he used a retail card. I believe it is possible to tell from the Device ID, but his scores are gone, so can't check anymore. Do you have a screenshot that shows that he used an ES card? And even if it makes him an elite, doesn't change the fact that if Hwbot were to ban him, a similar action is warranted against the Cinebench cheaters, Elite or otherwise. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Dude are you argue with a cheater banned 1 month coz he manipulate a screenshot. Just for say... Inviato dal mio LG-H870 utilizzando Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steponz Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Sad day that people need to cheat. It's pretty obvious what this guy was doing is cheating... I'm still a bit salty on the cine bench thing when all my scores were fine and yet those people kept their scores up. But again it was pretty impossible to determine who really knew and used and who didn't. Just to be clear.. usually when a guy goes from unknown to number 1.... doesn't something just look off... now this guy ruined it for some one else... shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew pro Posted August 23, 2017 Crew Share Posted August 23, 2017 I can relate to s@ position, when i first arrived i took many big records and was doing it with less clocks than most of the big guys at the time, i had alot of negative feedback and had to prove myself over and over again Im not defending his actions, but because he pushed the boundary in a few benchmarks doesnt mean his amazing 3d scores are invalid All you guys jumping on the ban wagon that were cheating at cine should take a good long look in the mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Island Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) I dont think this has anything to do with leagues, if he was elite I am sure hwbot would do the same thing. It's also not like he is just some random newcomer. He has been around for awhile and has had some really good scores and did good in a lot of comps and was just #1 and ranked really high for a long time. So I dont think people can make the argument they are banning him because he is a lesser known extreme bencher. I just think it sucks that people look for these loop holes for their own advantage, now all his scores are going to be looked at funny. It's hard to separate the talent from the cheat once it happens even 1 time. Even if 99% of the subs are legit. Like Jon Jones with PED's. Once you open that door everyone will be skeptical about past and future. Edited August 23, 2017 by Strong Island Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demac Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Once you open that door everyone will be skeptical about past and future. Exactly. Although what if he proves himself right? He will carry the spot as a "cheater" but he didn't do anything. Imo this had to be solved secretly between mods and $@39@. And then if they believe that he cheats, blame on him. -The title itself is a joke.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancop Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 My opinion, thanks to cinebench, no ban, no points for those benches, no more bad words... We're right about to separate the community into elite vs. Non-elite, into ban trains and never-banners. Nobody found the am3 tweak from James, nobody the 3d06 physx, nobody the 3d01 win7 from rauf...are they under general suspicion? This time, someone got catched, catched for a reason! . I think all the other 3d things are done with passion... And are legit. Sure, referring to the rules, a ban is a must, but thanks to the no-ban-let-the-community-alive thing, it's hard to act straight here. Just my two cents, let everybody stay alive, disable the points and develop good, uncheatable benchmarks. I neither like the Argumentation, no ban because of cinebench, nor the one: this is worse than cinebench. It's an impossible hard decision what to do and luckily not mine... But please decide wisely! Gesendet von meinem ONEPLUS A5000 mit Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew pro Posted August 23, 2017 Crew Share Posted August 23, 2017 Cinebench is way worse than this, this is manipulating the os to skew the benchmark Cine is directly editing the benchmark for a different result, there is nothing worse than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Cinebench is way worse than this, this is manipulating the os to skew the benchmark Cine is directly editing the benchmark for a different result, there is nothing worse than that How is the Cinebench episode different than the "tweaking" that went on with PCMark for years and years? Never knew about the Cinebench issue until long after the fact, and could never make heads or tails of PCMark tweaks or no tweaks. Honest questions, not attempting to start anything. I'm an overclocker first and foremost, no skill with tweaking or OS tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew pro Posted August 23, 2017 Crew Share Posted August 23, 2017 Pcmark there was never any files replaced in the benchmark itself, cine the rendered graphics file was replaced with something easier to render Its like shortening the race track and then comparing your result to ppl that raced the full track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Dude are you argue with a cheater banned 1 month coz he manipulate a screenshot. Just for say... Inviato dal mio LG-H870 utilizzando Tapatalk Confused what you are trying to say here, but that ban was well deserved. And a good decision from Hwbot's side. But just because he was banned doesn't make it okay for the Cinebench guys to walk away. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Edited August 23, 2017 by rtsurfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steponz Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Can you directly figure out all the people that actually cheated with cinebench? The case is much more complicated than that. Let's ban everybody more fun that way.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Pcmark there was never any files replaced in the benchmark itself, cine the rendered graphics file was replaced with something easier to render Its like shortening the race track and then comparing your result to ppl that raced the full track Atleast the guys that were doing cinebench actually required the clocks to get a score. I can do this on air and clock up appropriate speed thats not oc thats pure cheat and bs. If we are talking about using big names as a shield to question then what better example is team.au aq3 and 06 cpu test scores. Always loads higher with no need to prove anything. ( i don't care myself just playing devils advocate) If u guys want to start taking about cinebench again then start a thread. This is about $@39@ cheating and how these benchmarks are broken. With all of your attitudes I guess I should have kept this to myself and profited right? For Fsake what more do you want then it all layed out on a plater for you. I could not give a bunnyextraction if he was the king of oc or a noob or whatever other name you want. Not even a thankyou in this thread. Think I might be done here soon. PS a galax card that does 2900mhz doesnt fall from the sky, perhaps it was brought by someone else to share? Edited August 23, 2017 by Splave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GeorgeStorm Posted August 23, 2017 Members Share Posted August 23, 2017 Thanks for putting in the work to find out the bugs/exploits. Don't leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew pro Posted August 23, 2017 Crew Share Posted August 23, 2017 This is about $@39@ cheating and how these benchmarks are broken. This wll ties together though, we cant go and witch hunt someone when others had no punishment for a worse crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxinite Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Thanks for putting in the work to find out the bugs/exploits. Don't leave What George said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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