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Freestyler

The old operating system requirements are killing this community :/

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A wrapper wants to be simple to allow those who want to run benches on a newer OS without worrying about timer issues. Also to stop potential cheating. Other than that I don't feel it needs to do anything else. Obviously as small a performance impact as possible as otherwise it's useless.

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if one thinks all is lost, plz progress to exit and carry on elsewhere... enjoy it! 

We can not make things of the past right, but we can make it a more enjoyable experiece, especially for the youngsters. Which are put off by the numerous OS demands/incompatibilities due to the fact AMD and co never cared about fixing a damn thing...

Thing is can a coder like Matt deliver and at what price ? Does the community want to donate for that?

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To put a lot of unnecessary pressure on myself: I am going to release the first version of my generic wrapper on the 11th of April.

Regarding donations/financing, let's talk about that when the first version is out and stable.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, _mat_ said:

To put a lot of unnecessary pressure on myself: I am going to release the first version of my generic wrapper on the 11th of April.

Regarding donations/financing, let's talk about that when the first version is out and stable.

In for bout $3.50

I was lucky enough to get a demo via twitch and FB messenger. Im very excited by the wrapper, going to be the future. 

Edited by Splave
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6 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

We can make it a more enjoyable experience, especially for the youngsters.

Which are put off by the numerous OS demands/incompatibilities due to the fact AMD and co never cared about fixing a damn thing...

Fixed your writing, relative  xD Sure if it means keeping newcomers to OC " that is they stay " 

$20 donate

 

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On 3/23/2019 at 12:21 AM, _mat_ said:

To put a lot of unnecessary pressure on myself: I am going to release the first version of my generic wrapper on the 11th of April.

Regarding donations/financing, let's talk about that when the first version is out and stable.

This sounds fantastic.

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On 3/22/2019 at 9:18 AM, _mat_ said:

I highly doubt that any benchmark on Windows XP can be called secure.

Win 10 neither, what's your point?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, unityofsaints said:

Win 10 neither, what's your point?

I meant of course with a wrapper in place. Or a very good benchmark implementation that securely handles timing and scores. It's just not possible on XP.

Edited by _mat_

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I feel like the OP's original point has been lost in a stupid slapfight.

Regardless of what's optimal, if you're trying to get someone new into competitive OC they're going to be put off if they can't do it with their daily system or an OS they're familiar with, and *extremely* put off if they have to try and install something that's not supported on their platform.  They don't need to be told "well you should install XP anyway to be competitive", they need a way to get involved on 10.  Doesn't have to be efficient or competitive.  3D is alright for this because Futuremark/UL stuff is fine, but simply not being able to post cinebench/superpi/wprime/etc scores on ryzen without hacking an unsupported (on that platform) OS together really sucks.

Philosophically, it's an easy problem to solve without upsetting anyone - offer wrapped versions that people are free to run on whatever OS/hardware as the default download.  Continue to offer unwrapped versions if the unwrapped bench is felt to be secure enough, for people who are willing to faff around with older OS's.  The "only" difficulty is the production of the actual wrappers.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2019 at 2:34 AM, mickulty said:

I feel like the OP's original point has been lost in a stupid slapfight.

Regardless of what's optimal, if you're trying to get someone new into competitive OC they're going to be put off if they can't do it with their daily system or an OS they're familiar with, and *extremely* put off if they have to try and install something that's not supported on their platform.  They don't need to be told "well you should install XP anyway to be competitive", they need a way to get involved on 10.  Doesn't have to be efficient or competitive.  3D is alright for this because Futuremark/UL stuff is fine, but simply not being able to post cinebench/superpi/wprime/etc scores on ryzen without hacking an unsupported (on that platform) OS together really sucks.

Philosophically, it's an easy problem to solve without upsetting anyone - offer wrapped versions that people are free to run on whatever OS/hardware as the default download.  Continue to offer unwrapped versions if the unwrapped bench is felt to be secure enough, for people who are willing to faff around with older OS's.  The "only" difficulty is the production of the actual wrappers.

FS, TS, Superposition, XTU, X265, GPUpi, CB15, GB4 etc. allow for that. The Ryzen thing is a very specific political issue and outside the scope of this thread I would say.

Once they're comfortable, people can move to other O.S.es and benches. It's all quite well-balanced imo.

Edited by unityofsaints

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On 3/28/2019 at 1:17 PM, unityofsaints said:

The Ryzen thing is a very specific political issue and outside the scope of this thread I would say.

I think you might need to remind yourself of the original post;

Quote

We could be a so much bigger community if we could overcome the old Windows XP/7 only requirement for 95% of benchmarks. I get really sad everytime I want to bench some interesting hardware, or invite newcomers to the hobby. Nobody runs these old systems anymore :/

Given that the XP/7 requirement doesn't exist for modern Intel, and is not onerous on older hardware, what on earth is it about if not Ryzen?

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5 hours ago, mickulty said:

I think you might need to remind yourself of the original post;

Given that the XP/7 requirement doesn't exist for modern Intel, and is not onerous on older hardware, what on earth is it about if not Ryzen?

There is no XP requirement anywhere so by your line of reasoning the OP doesn't make any sense. 

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I really cant wrap my head around why its such a big deal to have multiple OS's. Just set up a ssd with the os for the bench you want to run and go to town. And if you say its becuase most new guys have win10 my response to that is, Benching on your daily OS is lame, efficiency typically sucks and if you push memory to hard youll screw up your OS anyways....so why would you even want to. 

 

Or maybe im just missing the problem....

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4 hours ago, Johnd0e said:

I really cant wrap my head around why its such a big deal to have multiple OS's. Just set up a ssd with the os for the bench you want to run and go to town. And if you say its becuase most new guys have win10 my response to that is, Benching on your daily OS is lame, efficiency typically sucks and if you push memory to hard youll screw up your OS anyways....so why would you even want to. 

 

Or maybe im just missing the problem....

^^^^^^^^  too true, plug 1 in or plug one out, whatever the bench needs, best os is a new install any way , and  along with bench your daily ,,,,, and you will pay the price..sooner rather than later   !!!!

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Posted (edited)

Well it is also partly to avoid bugged or impossible scores. Now if you are a die hard OCer you will have multiple SSDs or drives ready... however the later act has demotivated a lot of people as its not always easy to install a legacy OS for new gen hardware.... and some hardware/brands don't even allow it anymore...

Let us await the release of the wrapper on the 11th of April and move on from that point :)

 

 

*

Edited by Leeghoofd
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On 3/31/2019 at 5:17 AM, Leeghoofd said:

Let us await the release of the wrapper on the 11th of April and move on from that point :)

Any  news on this?

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On 4/29/2018 at 5:36 PM, Freestyler said:

We could be a so much bigger community if we could overcome the old Windows XP/7 only requirement for 95% of benchmarks. I get really sad everytime I want to bench some interesting hardware, or invite newcomers to the hobby. Nobody runs these old systems anymore :/

I partly agree with you, my mb has no PS / 2 output and I was not able to install w7 on amd ryzen. Honestly, the problem can be solved but I'm sick of wasting time on these things. The big problem with hwbot it will not be this but this too.

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On 4/14/2019 at 3:58 PM, sburnolo said:

I partly agree with you, my mb has no PS / 2 output and I was not able to install w7 on amd ryzen. Honestly, the problem can be solved but I'm sick of wasting time on these things. The big problem with hwbot it will not be this but this too.

This is part of overclocking. You're like the F1 driver who only likes driving on the straights and not the corners ;)

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20 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

so how can it be solved, plz share your input

Sorry I was referring to solving the windows installation problem and that's it.

As for the rest, if you say that the hpet problem can only solve by AMD, there's nothing to do.

Of sure If people didn't cheat, we wouldn't be here to speak about these problems.

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12 hours ago, unityofsaints said:

This is part of overclocking. You're like the F1 driver who only likes driving on the straights and not the corners ;)

I don't think what you say is right.I spent years of my time looking for the best OS for the various bench.

You spoke superficially without knowing me and it's something you don't do.

Thanks.

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2 hours ago, sburnolo said:

Sorry I was referring to solving the windows installation problem and that's it.

As for the rest, if you say that the hpet problem can only solve by AMD, there's nothing to do.

Of sure If people didn't cheat, we wouldn't be here to speak about these problems.

many AMD users don't cheat here, it just them not knowing why this is affecting them... I really hope the wrapper is here due, so we can  forget abut this OS madness...

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

many AMD users don't cheat here, it just them not knowing why this is affecting them... I really hope the wrapper is here due, so we can  forget abut this OS madness...

For me there is no problem,the fact is that in the database there are many sub who are not regular ,following the rules.Sooner or later it can be deleted. I try to warn people.

Edited by sburnolo
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@Leeghoofd

I am working on it all day currently. Yesterday I made a huge breakthrough that finally made Windows 7 support happen. That took considerably more effort than I ever imagined. There is also a 32 bit version of BenchMate now. Last but not least I implemented a very complex kernel to user-mode communication called "Inverted Call Model". That enables BenchMate to receive any change from within the driver within milliseconds. It also has less impact on performance than querying all process information and states every 500 ms.

So, yeah. It's very exhausting work. I need to be really thorough to make this happen the right way, lot of rewriting involved and lots to learn as well. But it is happening, that's for sure.

And it's much more than a wrapper. It's a completely new take on the workflow of benchmarking.

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