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21 hours ago, bigblock990 said:

@richba5tard I have a question about the new "seasons" in rev8. If a user rebenches the same piece of hardware year after year, do they need to always beat the previous score for it to get counted in the current season? For example if you sub 150k score 3dm03 in 2019, then in 2020 you rebench that same hardware and sub 149k does the new score count to 2020 season or not?

If people start deleting and resubmitting each year it's possible to add detection for this without moderator intervention.

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27 minutes ago, richba5tard said:

If people start deleting and resubmitting each year it's possible to add detection for this without moderator intervention.

Oh I like that big time xD Gangster taken out real time

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56 minutes ago, richba5tard said:

If people start deleting and resubmitting each year it's possible to add detection for this without moderator intervention.

That's not what I'm asking. In my example the 2019 150k score would count towards your career ranking. I want to know if the new lower score would count for 2020 ranking or not? Obviously if you sub 151k then it would count to both 2020 and career as it would be your new best score.

To further explain, lets say you have a really nice cpu/gpu. You bench in 2019 and get the best scores you can, then it dies. So in 2020 you bench on your backup gear and can't beat your previous best. Can you still get scores that count towards 2020 season or not?

Edited by bigblock990
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Your point is valid, and no, you would not get points for your seasonal ranking if you can't beat your past season's ranking.

I'd say there is sufficient hardware on the market for you to either push newer/different hardware in the next season, or beat your own record. :)

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26 minutes ago, richba5tard said:

Your point is valid, and no, you would not get points for your seasonal ranking if you can't beat your past season's ranking.

I'd say there is sufficient hardware on the market for you to either push newer/different hardware in the next season, or beat your own record. :)

That's going to do the exact opposite of encouraging participating then, especially with the wording of your reply because it pretty much comes across as "just throw (even more of your) money at the problem with how things are coded" if the somewhat likely scenario bigblock990 mentioned happens (pushing the limits does eventually put wear on gear, and/or kill it)...  And a lot of benchers aren't putting much money into acquiring new hardware because new stuff is stupidly expensive.

 

A seasonal ranking should be just that, seasonal.  It should pay absolutely no heed to what you did last year, and instead should go "do I have a sub for this THIS year?  No, okay, it counts" instead of forcing you to beat your overall/career best, because now you have time-limited rankings, but you're forced to beat your previous best as well.  Otherwise it's just two things being calculated that are overall, with one of them valid for an artificially limited timeframe.

Edited by WhiteWulfe
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26 minutes ago, richba5tard said:

Your point is valid, and no, you would not get points for your seasonal ranking if you can't beat your past season's ranking.

I'd say there is sufficient hardware on the market for you to either push newer/different hardware in the next season, or beat your own record. :)

I have no problem with this, was just curious how the season rankings would work. Thanks for clarifying.

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In my opinion, revision 3 was pretty much perfect. Here's why:

- Relation between Globals and Hardware points was spot on in individual results (166 vs 50, or 3.3 to 1) and overall account contributions (166x15 vs 50x20, or 2.5 to 1).
- Hardware points were handed out more reasonably. You didn't have categories like 32M on 5960X that literally noone cared about produce similar amount of hardware points as 1M on E6600 that thousands of people on hundreds of forums have fought on. Sure, you could argue that if there is an easy category that awards many points then someone will figure it out and it won't remain such for long. But, with rev3 it took more than a decade of high user activity (higher than it is now, for sure) before most 50-pointers actually got difficult.
- Screw competition points. If you upload scores to a contest, your primary reward is attached prize. If you happen to earn global/hardware points along the way, treat it as a bonus, not as an expectation.
- Screw pre-determined seasonality. It's almost impossible to maintain a high rank without having been active in the last 12 months. Also, you earn global points, they evaporate over time. Use them as your "carrot" to bench year after year.
- Of course, revision 4,5,6,7 or whatever it was, has made the calculations less server-intensive. Similar adjustments can also be executed on rev 3 (or a point structure close to it).

As someone who stopped caring about points many years ago and has no intention of coming back, I have observed that such threads are nothing more than people trying to influence the point system to their liking. Usually, such people don't stay active in this hobby for long since they get what they wanted, lose further interest and move on.  I mean, how many of the rev4/5/.. advocates are still out there benching?

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Not just your opinion. Rev 3 was ideal. Every revision after that went steadily down hill.

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On 1/18/2019 at 8:46 PM, richba5tard said:

Your point is valid, and no, you would not get points for your seasonal ranking if you can't beat your past season's ranking.

I'd say there is sufficient hardware on the market for you to either push newer/different hardware in the next season, or beat your own record. :)

Yes it is true there are more new and expensive hardware. Part of the sport i thought was that you could go out and also buy cheap old hardware to beat the C@#p out of through hard pushing.  It would mean if i never submitted scores before i will get nice good points in the season for going out and buy what i did not have of old stuff in my drawers. Ofcourse I would not go out and by a new 7640x or a 6700k if i have one but it would probably also mean it has degraded enough to not potentially give the peak score i had in  a previous year. Now I might be pushing the hardware with chiller last year and dice this year. In some of the last years team competitions this was exactly the case. Did not give me any scores but pulled a lot of points for the team. but can you then give advantage to the guys that went out and bought new (old hardware) over active users just because they did not get a new score on the same this year? if my score was actually higher while lower compared to previous year?

Meanwhile I do think its a bit of a turnoff to see that my scores having finally come above 1000 points i will be back down to 73 points because i have only used my 9900k effectively in 2019.. I had an extremely intense period the last 3 months of 2018... probably spent 500 usd on dry ice and another 500 on the pots. now it would be more sensible to simply stop trying the last 3 months and start a major session beginning of the year... 

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25 minutes ago, Matsglobetrotter said:

Yes it is true there are more new and expensive hardware. Part of the sport i thought was that you could go out and also buy cheap old hardware to beat the C@#p out of through hard pushing.  It would mean if i never submitted scores before i will get nice good points in the season for going out and buy what i did not have of old stuff in my drawers. Ofcourse I would not go out and by a new 7640x or a 6700k if i have one but it would probably also mean it has degraded enough to not potentially give the peak score i had in  a previous year. Now I might be pushing the hardware with chiller last year and dice this year. In some of the last years team competitions this was exactly the case. Did not give me any scores but pulled a lot of points for the team. but can you then give advantage to the guys that went out and bought new (old hardware) over active users just because they did not get a new score on the same this year? if my score was actually higher while lower compared to previous year?

Meanwhile I do think its a bit of a turnoff to see that my scores having finally come above 1000 points i will be back down to 73 points because i have only used my 9900k effectively in 2019.. I had an extremely intense period the last 3 months of 2018... probably spent 500 usd on dry ice and another 500 on the pots. now it would be more sensible to simply stop trying the last 3 months and start a major session beginning of the year... 

Just ignore seasonal and care about career 😁

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43 minutes ago, GeorgeStorm said:

Just ignore seasonal and care about career 😁

That's my plan 😁

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On 1/19/2019 at 1:30 AM, TaPaKaH said:

In my opinion, revision 3 was pretty much perfect.

For those of us who weren't around back then is there a way of looking up how Rev. 3 worked? It's so old that there isn't even a subforum.

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8 hours ago, MetalRacer said:

How to Survive Rev3, A Walkthrough Guide.

https://hwbot.org/news/how_to_survive_rev3_a_walkthrough_guide

What people tend to forget is that rev8 is dubbed "classic" as it was my intention to go back to our roots and remove a lot of the complexity that came after rev3. Turns out a lot of the stuff added over the years is loved, but people don't realize it until you are about to take it away. Team power points, a separate league so newcomers don't need to compare against extreme overclockers, team cups, country cup, ...

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8 hours ago, richba5tard said:

What people tend to forget is that rev8 is dubbed "classic" as it was my intention to go back to our roots and remove a lot of the complexity that came after rev3. Turns out a lot of the stuff added over the years is loved, but people don't realize it until you are about to take it away. Team power points, a separate league so newcomers don't need to compare against extreme overclockers, team cups, country cup, ...

And yet it may still be required to remove at least some of it to make things better.

I get it, you don't miss it until it's gone but at the same time what if it's something that's actually BAD for things inspite of being popular? I'm with the above, going back to something like Rev 3 is probrably the best move to make from here. 

If wanting anything beyond that I'd allow the base concept of what it's going to be become reality, THEN look into it. This way you are standing on a firm foundation of something that's already been proven as "Good" for a starting point.

Set that in place, preserve that format in case it's needed for later (Base concept backup) and go from there.

Just my 2 cents on this.

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12 hours ago, richba5tard said:

Turns out a lot of the stuff added over the years is loved, but people don't realize it until you are about to take it away.

Flip the switch, then delete your account.

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Updated rev8 / uat with the result of the polls. Top 15/30 for season, 30/60 for career.

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Indeed, as oc-esports will mostly be retired and competition will mainly focus on fun and teamwork (team cup, country cup, fun challenges) or organized by a manufacturer.

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I think the live competitions deserves something better than being compared to challengers or whatever was on oc-exports, they are organized and held by manufacturers, how come they won't matter for career ranking?

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Because they still have the issue of being 'locked' points, and the bigger manufacturer ones are even more of a money pit than globals, which hwbot doesn't want to push too much. (in my opinion)

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Ok so you approach the problem of lack of participation in competitions... by further reducing the value of competitions! 👎 Why not just kill them at this point? "Unnecessary server load" and all that.

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7 minutes ago, unityofsaints said:

Ok so you approach the problem of lack of participation in competitions... by further reducing the value of competitions! 👎 Why not just kill them at this point? "Unnecessary server load" and all that.

I'm thinking it's more a case of tackling one problem at a time.  The initially stated goal of rev8 was to reduce server load, and therefore focusing on the 24/7 aka daily stuff wound be the first thing to be tackled.

 

Instead of jumping directly to "sky is falling, omg panic" maybe we should ask if there's a road plan regarding competitions?  Or better yet, instead of a knee-jerk reaction, there's always writing up a nice, detailed post about one's ideas for competitions as a proposal, and seeing where it goes from there...

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2 hours ago, WhiteWulfe said:

I'm thinking it's more a case of tackling one problem at a time.  The initially stated goal of rev8 was to reduce server load, and therefore focusing on the 24/7 aka daily stuff wound be the first thing to be tackled.

I very much doubt the 6 or 7 competitions per year cause even a fraction of a fraction of the server load of regular day-to-day subs. My version of "tackling one problem at a time" would be to leave comps alone for now and change the other things we have already discussed endlessly in this thread and via polls.

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