yosarianilives Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Aleslammer said: My only complaint is the change, find something and stick with it. In the end I will either adjust to the system or save my money. Yes, this is the biggest issue I see. The constant changing of focus on points. It's okay to change it, but I'd like to see something stick around for a few year. Also can agree about wanting hw pts, don't make my quest to gild all igp a waste! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Alberino Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I like the idea of the Seasonal Ranking, in not so active countries like mine it has always been the same old guys that don't touch HWBOT since like 5 years, and new users don't have motivation to climb since it's imposible to reach them.... With season ranking there's a chance for new users to get a good place since we all start at cero... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 21, 2018 Crew Share Posted November 21, 2018 Yes you start at zero, but however you will still be spanked by them guys that use the biggest and latest hardware... its not a bad idea but it needs categories to make a difference.... otherwise it will be the guy with the most money still on top... 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigblock990 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, GeorgeStorm said: edit: Career: Top 20 global + Top 40 HW Seasonal: Top 30 subs + Top 10 Comp (all during that 'season') Numbers can be adjusted obviously, but to me this is a nice balance. I already suggested this idea, and frederick replied that he isn't interested in having different "logic" between the rankings. He wants both career and seasonal to be the same system. Edited November 21, 2018 by bigblock990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, bigblock990 said: I already suggested this idea, and frederick replied that he isn't interested in having different "logic" between the rankings. He wants both career and seasonal to be the same system. Indeed. In this case it would not be a burden on the code/maintenance, but I see it as a big drawback if the point algorithm can not be explained easily, without dozens of exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, yosarianilives said: Get the current rev fully working then maybe we consider updating it. When I have to recalc some subs several times (and I did extensive testing, you really have to recalc several times it's not just the server catching up to the first one) you can't say that current rev works. Most of the continuing complaints about our current rev is how much the ranking algorithm just fails to work at times or otherwise things break. People have mostly calmed down about how points are gained. You need to pick a way that points are attained and stick to it, people like to know what they need to do to get ahead without it changing all the time. I obviously can't get rev 7 fully working due, do I? Despite hundreds of automated tests, a test environment with a full production database copy, we are not able to reproduce the issues with rev7. Rankings just get fucked up on production and nobody seems to know why or how. If I can't reproduce it, and i've got 685.000 lines of 14 year old code to maintain, well guess what, I can't get it bug free. Even worse, all my spare time is spent on finding issues with the points and dozens of different rankings, I can spent time on improving other stuff. One major reason for rev7 was to free up calculation power, but in the end I had to write a tool which checks for broken rankings and repairs them, causing high load... I need it easier to maintain, otherwise HWBOT will never improve quality wise. 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Just a hypothesis, but what would be the effect if no points were awarded for wr/gl, only hw? It would significantly reduce the money factor, while skill is still involved in getting high hw points. People who go for world records have less "points" awarded, but I doubt they do it for the points anyway. For shits and giggles let me try this out on uat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, richba5tard said: Just a hypothesis, but what would be the effect if no points were awarded for wr/gl, only hw? It would significantly reduce the money factor, while skill is still involved in getting high hw points. People who go for world records have less "points" awarded, but I doubt they do it for the points anyway. For shits and giggles let me try this out on uat. You definitely do it for the points when it is what is needed to get to the top @phil told you my weekend ebay shopping sprees would pay off at some point. Time to take advantage of all that hw ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Silver Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 hello, the idea Career: Top 20 Global + Top 40 HW Seasonal: Top 30 subs + Top 10 Comp I like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Silver Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 for me the global / WR are very important they can motivate is to always have new and create a classification or new materials or old special equipment (3c / 5c) are put forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, richba5tard said: Just a hypothesis, but what would be the effect if no points were awarded for wr/gl, only hw? It would significantly reduce the money factor, while skill is still involved in getting high hw points. People who go for world records have less "points" awarded, but I doubt they do it for the points anyway. For shits and giggles let me try this out on uat. It's active on UAT. Member points = top 50 hw. Take a peek if you are interested because I'm reverting it later tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Strunkenbold Posted November 21, 2018 Crew Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 hours ago, GeorgeStorm said: For active benchers, season and career shouldn't be that different surely? Since they'll bench new stuff for globals, and also rebench older stuff possibly with new hw in combination (new cpus with older gpus) in order to improve their hw subs. Keeping globals in the career is a nice balance to me, as it rewards active benchers, but doesn't mean you completely lose out if you're no longer active, but you will slowly slip down the rankings. Also still think comp points have no place in the career ranking, thought we were heading towards older hwbot, aren't comp points a new thing? (at least I don't remember them being around when I joined), competition points are naturally suited to a seasonal ranking as they lose points after a year anyway. Well the problem of global and wr points is that they are really big. While you just can get maximum 50 hardware points, it is possible to receive over 160 points for globals and 170 points for worldrecord points. In other words an active bencher which posts some high quality scores with big points can be #1 in career ranking and in seasonal ranking at the same time and he can achieve this in some months (hypothetical). I think the career ranking should reflect the effort made over some longer time and not just some months. Currently those 30 slots for hardware / global / WR fill up too quickly with current made results because global / WR points have a so much bigger influence. Regarding comp points: I think its sad that the effort made in previous years diminishes. Seasonal ranking gives the chance to see the current level of a bencher while career shows what he did over the time. Its 10 slots for those points. If we shift up hardware point slots it should not have a too big impact anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, richba5tard said: It's active on UAT. Member points = top 50 hw. Take a peek if you are interested because I'm reverting it later tonight. still shows top 10 comp and top 30 subs so I guess it takes a while to get updated? Can you also fix UAT so it does proper calculations? That way it will be less confusing and easier to get the full picture of whats going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, FireKillerGR said: still shows top 10 comp and top 30 subs so I guess it takes a while to get updated? Can you also fix UAT so it does proper calculations? That way it will be less confusing and easier to get the full picture of whats going on. I did not change the labels, just the calculation of the rankings. Top 30 submissions, using total points: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I just had a look at UAT server. Very nice indeed. I go from 1310 points right down to 126..... Now this is progress, I guess. I will save my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Top 50 submissions, using hw points: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, richba5tard said: I did not change the labels, just the calculation of the rankings. Top 30 submissions, using total points: yes I saw these yday but if you would open the individual pages you would see that the combo of subs wouldnt match the actual total points Same issue now I believe. We cant have a proper overview if the mathematics and the system behind it dont work properly. Edited November 21, 2018 by FireKillerGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 The change has been reverted again, screenshots above show what the effect would have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, richba5tard said: The change has been reverted again, screenshots above show what the effect would have been. what effects when 10+10 makes 7? Doing all the drugs of the planet and the imaginary result will be more realistic than the above screenshot ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Ohh my god....I don't know if I can handle one more revision from HWBOT 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Just now, richba5tard said: What are you babbling about? the fact that rankings didnt showcase the reality as the calculations behind each rank didnt work properly. That -of course- will make people misunderstand each and every concept (good or bad) you are trying to showcase and will be (always) mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 The only ranking I changed temporarily where the ones with screenshots above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, FireKillerGR said: what effects when 10+10 makes 7? Doing all the drugs of the planet and the imaginary result will be more realistic than the above screenshot ? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Warning, don’t pollute the topic with off topic rambling. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauf Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) It's just more of the same old hwbot. It hasn't worked for the last few years and this will not change anything. Don't touch the hw points, leave everything hw as it is. But change everything regarding globals/wr fundamentally. Change the site layout, change the points - give points to all submissions subbed, get rid of 90% of the benchmarks. Let's face it, 90% is junk anyway. Keep 5 3D and 5 2D benchmarks. Have one individual ranking based on top 10-20 scores in the 10 benchmarks. Edit: btw, get rid of competition points also. How many comps will there be in 2019, 2 maybe? Team cup and country cup... Edited November 21, 2018 by Rauf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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