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1 minute ago, TerraRaptor said:

These spamming results make categories popular bringing more points for the first place.

Which undermines the algorithm in my opinion.

 

Also @Rauf I can see where you're coming from, but by limiting it too strongly you're still making it a money game, just instead of hw breadth it's hw depth so to speak, with needing to bin/buy binned hw at a premium.

As @richba5tard said, it'll be impossibly to keep everybody happy, but hopefully a compromise can be made :)

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Here are my suggestions:

1. competition points should stay, as motivation to participate. Yet, I don't like the limitation from Road to Pro Division to a single DIV points, when I can bench several platforms for different DIVs and get more competition points in the end.

"Top 10 entries of current year (seasonal ranking) and top 10 all time (career ranking) count for member points, no more oc-esports/road to pro/challenger points." That sounds ok!

2. I liked better when points in competitions were percentage of top score, not fixed (50-48-46-etc). That way, you can score no 1 at the stages where you are very good (and get max of points for that score) and even scoring lower at other stages, you have a good chance to hit top3 or top5 in the end.

3.  What if the points for a submission would be actual score (eventually divided by something. Ex; 3dmark 03 score of 119206 would give me 119.206 points)? That would not limit the maximum points possible and make the user try to squeeze every bit of performance for a better score.

On the other hand, the user final ranking should be calculated with an algorithm that should be dependent on the number of submissions that user made over last year (just the ones that gave the ranking for each benchmark, not all submissions from that year) (basically use  seasonal ranking as a parameter in final algorithm). So they lose points for global inactivity along with annual competition points.

4. I like the Career Points idea.

5. Seasonal ranking is not ok as final ranking.

6. OC Esports interface is shit, so get rid of it.

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36 minutes ago, richba5tard said:

That's a bad example. All submissions with a 1070 which scored about the same use extreme cooling. This is not an example of unfair points, but of either a very good chip or a user which did not change the "stock cooling" default to the cooling he used.

LN2: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3578161_buildzoid_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_1070_20612_marks/ 

Chilled water: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3929098_totalnet_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_1070_20653_marks/

Dry ice: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3728863_shar00750_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_1070_20220_marks/

The more you limit the amount of submissions, the more money comes into play. Yet you suggest the opposite. What is more expensive? Using LN2 and top end cpu/memory/mobo to get the most out of your GTX 1070 for one benchmark, or using air/water and do 10 benchmarks with your GTX 1070? Obviously the latter is cheaper.

HWBOT has always been about the compromise between showing of world records which are crazy to achieve both in skill and money, and making it fun for the community who just wants to mess around with decent oc's and improved cooling. We don't benefit from excluding either party, but we can't make it ideal for both.

How can an example that shows exactly what I mean be "bad"? I'm sorry but you just don't know what you're talking about. The clocks are normal for a pascal GPU on stock cooler. There's a reason why these cards don't scale so well on extreme cooling, but it's besides the point. Check 970 then, it's the same story:

970: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3992854_dragon_soop_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_970_14178_marks

or 770: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3629333_h2o_vs_ln2_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_770_10426_marks

or 780: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3761539_h2o_vs_ln2_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_780_14287_marks

or 680: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3061153_pulse88_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_680_10007_marks

or 670: https://uat.hwbot.org/submission/3823010_shar00750_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_670_8631_marks

Need more?

For CPUs it's the same. There are many examples of stupid hw points. Check this profile for example: https://uat.hwbot.org/user/pkbo/#Points And there are many examples of stupid globals also, I've written about them before.

The question is WHY do we have points and rankings? WHAT is to be rewarded and what should the rankings show? As long as I have been a member no one has been able to answer this. It's always been a little bit of this and a little bit of that, which meant a system that has no clear purpose. If you don't know the why and what you want to do, how can you do it properly? For me a ranking and points system should always award the best achievements. Not just hand out points arbitrarily to "everyone who wants to mess around with decent oc's".

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Just now, Rauf said:

The question is WHY do we have points and rankings? WHAT is to be rewarded and what should the rankings show? As long as I have been a member no one has been able to answer this. It's always been a little bit of this and a little bit of that, which meant a system that has no clear purpose. If you don't know the why and what you want to do, how can you do it properly? For me a ranking and points system should always award the best achievements. Not just hand out points arbitrarily to "everyone who wants to mess around with decent oc's".

Because when points where initially launched, participation on HWBOT boomed. Most people love points/karma/likes/kudos/whatever. It's virtual and meaningless, but people love gathering stuff.

If you don't care about point, good for you! Reason more to just say "just go live with rev8" and let me focus on other stuff than damn points for once. :)

Your example was bad because it did not make your point clear.

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1 hour ago, GeorgeStorm said:

Also @Rauf I can see where you're coming from, but by limiting it too strongly you're still making it a money game, just instead of hw breadth it's hw depth so to speak, with needing to bin/buy binned hw at a premium.

 As @richba5tard said, it'll be impossibly to keep everybody happy, but hopefully a compromise can be made :)

No more compromise! Define a clear objective and make it happen! :)

BTW, isn't "hw depth" what competitive overclocking is all about? Shouldn't the best overclocks be rewarded? I'm all for making it cheaper, but you can never factor out binning

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2 hours ago, Rauf said:

For reference you can just check h20vsln2's profile to see what kind of good hw points you can get through an all air/water setup

You do realize that particular person is very well known for using a chiller, and then claiming it's only water, right?  Not exactly the best person to be using for your example.

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Plus Venjamin only benches the latest and greatest, usually way out of budget range of many...

 

Just go Live Frederik and we will adapt, so I can start the challengers design

Edited by Leeghoofd
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What about having a one (or even two) week period to adjust uat based on the voting(s) and then see if everything runs smoothly?

@richba5tard is everything fixed or there is work on the pipeline from your end (aka how ready does it feel?)

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@richba5tard I have a question about the new "seasons" in rev8. If a user rebenches the same piece of hardware year after year, do they need to always beat the previous score for it to get counted in the current season? For example if you sub 150k score 3dm03 in 2019, then in 2020 you rebench that same hardware and sub 149k does the new score count to 2020 season or not?

Edited by bigblock990
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1 hour ago, WhiteWulfe said:

You do realize that particular person is very well known for using a chiller, and then claiming it's only water, right?  Not exactly the best person to be using for your example.

As though he is the only one :)

And as though all the rest have an IQ < 30 and don't understand.

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2 hours ago, Rauf said:

No more compromise! Define a clear objective and make it happen! :)

BTW, isn't "hw depth" what competitive overclocking is all about? Shouldn't the best overclocks be rewarded? I'm all for making it cheaper, but you can never factor out binning

The objective is to allow people to take part in competitive overclocking/benchmarking in my opinion, which doesn't just mean the top 0.1%, that's just a WR tracker.

Also to a certain degree yes, but one guy having one binned chip that gets a bunch of global 1st places/golds isn't any better or worse than someone who does well in a wide range of benchmarks and with a range of hw. So you need to have some kind of compromise in my opinion, as having too small a number of scores counting will mean those without highly binned chips will next get near the top, but on the other hand having every score count for example would turn it into just a spamfest of results hah (which would still possibly favour the top end benchers I think actually due to the points scaling)

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If I ever see HWBOT running on a clear and specific path, I will open a box of champagne.

As long as this mixture of participants continues, this will never happen.

SPLIT THEM UP !

The needs of Elites are totally irrelevant to the rest.

As long as the fundamental problem is not understood, even revision 137 will not be able to solve the issues.

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Fasttrack, that was what Pieter tried to achieve with the esports/road to pro site. Don't mind me if I don't try it twice.

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1 minute ago, richba5tard said:

Fasttrack, that was what Pieter tried to achieve with the esports/road to pro site. Don't mind me if I don't try it twice.

You are the boss Frederick :)

I am in no position to know what is best.

I just observe that there is strong reaction from many sides.

ALL participants must understand that a widely accepted compromise is the only way to move on.

Discussion about leagues is something else.

But if a democratic compromise can't be achieved, please proceed with whatever you judge best.

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judging by the recent polls I think fred should just make his own decisions haha 

10 global and 50 hw points for season won the votes thats nuts imo  

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Sorry for my English.

Comrades , the Number of global points for the season interesting for those who uses the top iron and the cooling Nitrogen.     I is the number of no matter though 5 results put. (decide among those who are on Global scores work).  

10 Global per season Let it.

Global 20 for the season, let it be 20.

30 Global points let it be .

Those who do not receive Global points this number does not matter.

 

Leave those who use water or air cooling 30 Hardware results per season .

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Rauf  you brought a sub of mine up when you have sub zero ambient temps in scotland outside my garage is a great place to bench in future ill stick a thermometer in the rig pics for reference. :)  its still stock cooling at the end of the day.

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5 hours ago, bigblock990 said:

@richba5tard I have a question about the new "seasons" in rev8. If a user rebenches the same piece of hardware year after year, do they need to always beat the previous score for it to get counted in the current season? For example if you sub 150k score 3dm03 in 2019, then in 2020 you rebench that same hardware and sub 149k does the new score count to 2020 season or not?

This is a good question. :)

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4 hours ago, Fasttrack said:
4 hours ago, Fasttrack said:

As long as this mixture of participants continues, this will never happen.

The needs of Elites are totally irrelevant to the rest. 👍

 

the elite and other leagues are not compatible for a survey

two worlds with incompatible realities. loose or tight budgets.

you can not put everyone in the same bag it's time to separate the waters and that everyone has what they need

Survey for the elite
Survey for other leagues

end of the problem

 

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6 hours ago, Rauf said:

LoL 3x of those examples run 18core Skylakes. What do you think happens there in modern 3D bench O.o boints are HUGE

If I had spare $2500+ AU for that processor it's exactly what I would have done too :P OR if no can afford, monitor pull tweaks reign supreme " sarcasm "

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6 hours ago, WhiteWulfe said:

You do realize that particular person is very well known for using a chiller, and then claiming it's only water, right?  Not exactly the best person to be using for your example.

PKBO accused for this as well, many times. 1.7v on the processors, chiller under the bench that anyone can see where the tubes lead in screenshot xD

Radiator on the windows edge is just for show, fool the onlooker

_________

Ambient ice bucket cheats ... haha dodgy fuKK's

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It was inevitable.

The moment I wished that would never come :(

Members have reached a point of - Anger, Disbelief, split societies, Heavy verbal attacks, suspicion.

Names are called out.

Useless drama - dog fighting. Onlookers have focused on the drama - NOT THE ISSUE AT HAND - which is Revision 8.

TO ALL :

PLEASE, I remind each and everyone of the members. We are here because we love benching and overclocking.

There is a minority ( Thank God ) of participants ( TOP or Bottom of rankings irrelevant ), who INSIST on approaching the issue with an impressive dose of egoism.

Where on Earth do you want to lead this site to ?

 

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10 hours ago, Rauf said:

BTW, isn't "hw depth" what competitive overclocking is all about? Shouldn't the best overclocks be rewarded? I'm all for making it cheaper, but you can never factor out binning

Some people think it's a variety of hardware, some people want WRs to be rewarded more - to keep everyone reasonably happy we compromise.

9 hours ago, bigblock990 said:

@richba5tard I have a question about the new "seasons" in rev8. If a user rebenches the same piece of hardware year after year, do they need to always beat the previous score for it to get counted in the current season? For example if you sub 150k score 3dm03 in 2019, then in 2020 you rebench that same hardware and sub 149k does the new score count to 2020 season or not?

Even worse, how can we ensure a particular validation file / screenshot was produced in that year? Someone can just rattle off 20 results in one benchsession and sub them year after year...

8 hours ago, Fasttrack said:

SPLIT THEM UP ! The needs of Elites are totally irrelevant to the rest.

7 hours ago, alexmaj467 said:

Leave those who use water or air cooling 30 Hardware results per season .

 

This might be news to some of you but elites and extremes don't use LN2 all the time, how would you handle H2O subs produced by people with LN2 capability? Just disable points completely? LN2 is expensive, I don't want to be forced to use it for all my results.

8 hours ago, richba5tard said:

Fasttrack, that was what Pieter tried to achieve with the esports/road to pro site. Don't mind me if I don't try it twice.

and we appreciate you trying again! It's a good concept 👍

7 hours ago, Splave said:

judging by the recent polls I think fred should just make his own decisions haha 

10 global and 50 hw points for season won the votes thats nuts imo  

What's up man, don't you have time to make 60 subs in one year? Tell Asrock to send you some beer for motivation or something ;)

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6 hours ago, Fasttrack said:

It was inevitable.

The moment I wished that would never come :(

Members have reached a point of - Anger, Disbelief, split societies, Heavy verbal attacks, suspicion.

Names are called out.

Useless drama - dog fighting. Onlookers have focused on the drama - NOT THE ISSUE AT HAND - which is Revision 8.

LoL not me man :P not angry one bit. They've been called out before on this. = Apprentice if you chill water

Code bandits ... software manipulators ... pc clock forward <> back super GOD tweaks. Good slap up the side of the head for deception 

Edited by avalanche

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