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A7N8X-E Deluxe as an alternative for socket 462


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Wait, what? Usually you can't mix A7N8X Deluxe v2.0, A7N8X Deluxe v1.x and A7N8X-E Deluxe. -E Deluxe is a bit different to the non-E versions, v1.0 got 256kb bios rom, v2.0 got 512kb bios rom.

So if:

  • you got a A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 then use a Dlx v2.0 bios
  • you got a -E, then use -E bios
  • you got Deluxe v1.0 then use v1.0 bios
  • you got A7N8X-X, then use a 512kb Chip and the A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 bios (yes, that works :D )

I also got a -E Deluxe which fails to reach above 208Mhz. It's a newer board made in 2005 (serial number on top of LPT port starts with 5C). In general you should be able to reach ~230Mhz of FSB without mods if the board is decent. Make sure to not use UTT Winbods sticks, but Samsung, Hynix will work great. Especially in 256mb singlesided. Avoid Infineon 1gb CE sticks, had no luck with these... Nforce 2 is very picky when it comes to ram.

Besides that, make sure to keep FSB and ram on 1:1 divider and use a Cpu which isn't multi-locked (so older than week ~35 2003 or mobile). Also make sure your psu got plenty juice on 5V, at absolute minimum 20amps as the cpu runs off it.

And last but not least: A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 or -E DLX usually sell for 30€ max. in germany, not much more. Those boards aren't expensive at all... I got my last board for 15€ shipped.

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12 minutes ago, Tzk said:

Wait, what? Usually you can't mix A7N8X Deluxe v2.0, A7N8X Deluxe v1.x and A7N8X-E Deluxe. -E Deluxe is a bit different to the non-E versions, v1.0 got 256kb bios rom, v2.0 got 512kb bios rom.

So if:

  • you got a A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 then use a Dlx v2.0 bios
  • you got a -E, then use -E bios
  • you got Deluxe v1.0 then use v1.0 bios
  • you got A7N8X-X, then use a 512kb Chip and the A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 bios (yes, that works :D )

I also got a -E Deluxe which fails to reach above 208Mhz. It's a newer board made in 2005 (serial number on top of LPT port starts with 5C). In general you should be able to reach ~230Mhz of FSB without mods if the board is decent. Make sure to not use UTT Winbods sticks, but Samsung, Hynix will work great. Especially in 256mb singlesided. Avoid Infineon 1gb CE sticks, had no luck with these... Nforce 2 is very picky when it comes to ram.

Besides that, make sure to keep FSB and ram on 1:1 divider and use a Cpu which isn't multi-locked (so older than week ~35 2003 or mobile). Also make sure your psu got plenty juice on 5V, at absolute minimum 20amps as the cpu runs off it.

And last but not least: A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 or -E DLX usually sell for 30€ max. in germany, not much more. Those boards aren't expensive at all... I got my last board for 15€ shipped.

A7N8X Deluxe V2 with your BIOS seems to work fine.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just in case somebody wants to mod a ASRock K7NF2-RAID.

image.thumb.jpeg.34d0c7f6257d5d0647584da7c5e16ab6.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.dfed6632d3106682586514a31939589a.jpeg

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mod BIOSes will follow, but until now i did not figure it out, how to add or modify the strings on an AMI BIOS...

Changing the romsips is not a problem. Known romsips will also work now.

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Is the A7N8X-X worth anything or should I just toss it? Board works fine but I need SPAAAAAAAACE. (for even more computer shit I use once or twice and then sell/toss into the scrap bin)

Best modded BIOS? Any way to unlock dual channel on this board?

Edited by 4n0nym0u5b3nch3r
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The -x will Work with a 512k bios Chip and the a7n8x (Deluxe) v2.0 bios. Else theres only trats mod bios. I've yet to try If the deluxe bios enables Dual-Channel. Post reports it, but i need to verify with benchmarks.

Edited by Tzk
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25 minutes ago, Tzk said:

The -x will Work with a 512k bios Chip and the a7n8x (Deluxe) v2.0 bios. Else theres only trats mod bios. I've yet to try If the deluxe bios enables Dual-Channel. Post reports it, but i need to verify with benchmarks.

Will any 512KB chip work? I tossed quite a few dead 775 boards and some of them had PLCC BIOS chips.

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A while back you guys told me that Infineon 6A is BH5. 


I have got myself a kit of Infineon 6B and this seems to be CH5/6. I was wondering if you guys noticed this as well? 

 

685A994F-6E41-4812-A4B5-231D75D4A62A.jpeg

FD3CDBA5-C9BC-4393-B184-D965F0C24286.jpeg

66136333-5C37-4C77-BDDA-E48057BD1467.jpeg
 

I was also wondering if you guys got your info about FireRAM. 

Edited by Sparks.nl
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10 minutes ago, Mr.Scott said:

Who told you that?

They may be similiar in OC characteristics.....sometimes, but they are definitely not the same product.

Infineon 6A is defenitly the real deal. Why: the same dots on the ic’s, the same markings on the long side. Only Winbond has them. 
You can see them on my photo’s as well. Only: mine boot Cas 3 so this is CH5/6. And they are scaling on voltage. 

I made a study of the marking on the ic’s and they seem to be unique for at least Samsung and Winbond and some other brands. You don’t need to see the text Winbond on them. They can be recognized even if the text is different on the ic’s.
Take these Kingston 266MHz, they have a Kingston label on them: BH5 running at 3.2v

 

 

E7BBC08C-BCB6-465B-878B-D17B33DA88A7.jpeg

Edited by Sparks.nl
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9 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

I have got myself a kit of Infineon 6B and this seems to be CH5/6. 

Yes, i know that. However this is a somewhat rare stick you got there. Usually BT-6 sticks are "real" Infineon. You can easily spot those by the 9 in the part number. Only relabeled infineon chips got it directly in front of the BT/AT on the part number. All "real" infineon sticks got a zero, AT and your BT got a nine.

Regarding the FireRAM:

I wrote a PM to auto660 here on the forums, but never got a response. Not sure if he just forgot to answer or didn't want to... ;) Still there are some people on the german hardwareluxx forums which are interested in purchasing one, of course depending on the costs.

@Mr.Scott

We investigated a lot of chips by their physical apperance. Infineon AT got the same metal fins sticking out of the short side of the chip as winbond. All other infineon chips look way different. AT-6 also got the same two round markings on them. AT chips won't boot at CL3, just like Winbond BH. Also Infineon got a joint venture with winbond back when AT chips were produced. AT-6 is Winbond BH, there's no other explanation.

I started a thread with a lot of detail pictures of ddr1 ram chips on the german hardwareluxx forums. You can compare a lot of chips over there:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/der-ddr1-ram-chip-thread.1244468/

The user @stunned_guy even compared 130 infineon sticks and documented his findings:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/der-ddr1-ram-chip-thread.1244468/page-40#post-27537381

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9 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

Infineon 6A is defenitly the real deal. Why: the same dots on the ic’s, the same markings on the long side. Only Winbond has them.

Be careful, not only Infineon and Winbond used the flat dots on the ICs. ProMos also used them. The ProMos ICs are different in OC and they hate Voltage.

BT-6 RAM is a nice found!

kvr400x64c25_1.thumb.jpg.69cc0ac630000864fd39c3aa0fc611a4.jpg

kvr400x64c25_2.thumb.jpg.3ffe1f581ce295212a5f0d106729f2d0.jpg

1589223635818.thumb.jpeg.5ed1a717be759de1ae0cc49ee620dc48.jpeg

1589223650453.thumb.jpeg.93e0d266ab92e278afbf19907c91195f.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, digitalbath said:

Be careful, not only Infineon and Winbond used the flat dots on the ICs. ProMos also used them. The ProMos ICs are different in OC and they hate Voltage.

BT-6 RAM is a nice found!

kvr400x64c25_1.thumb.jpg.69cc0ac630000864fd39c3aa0fc611a4.jpg

kvr400x64c25_2.thumb.jpg.3ffe1f581ce295212a5f0d106729f2d0.jpg

1589223635818.thumb.jpeg.5ed1a717be759de1ae0cc49ee620dc48.jpeg

1589223650453.thumb.jpeg.93e0d266ab92e278afbf19907c91195f.jpeg

Thanks for the info. 
But: the 2 metal dots on the long side are a little smaller then with a Winbond dimm as far as I can see. 
Do those Promos also run C2-2-2-5?

Edited by Sparks.nl
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12 minutes ago, Sparks.nl said:

Thanks for the info. 
But: the 2 metal dots on the long side are a little smaller then with a Winbond dimm as far as I can see. 
Do those Promos also run C2-2-2-5?

No.

The ProMos labled ICs do 2-3-2-5 / 200MHz / 2,7V;  2,5-4-3-8 / 218MHz / 2,8V

The Kingston labled ICs do 2-3-2-6 / 200MHz / 2,7V;  2,5-4-3-8 / 230MHz / 2,7V

They don't start >3,0V.

Edited by digitalbath
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Ah but these dimms work with C2-2-2-5 1T. I allready tested them. 
I thought so that they probaly didn’t do any c2-2-2-5 but C2-3-2-6. I never saw Promos doing a boot on these speeds. This Kingston runs 213MHz C2-2-2-5. Not a speed monster but still. 

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52 minutes ago, digitalbath said:

Most ProMos are not good at all. Did you test your Kingston RAM with 2-3-2-6?

No not yet, but I don’t think I will because while pre binning anything that does not boot 235MHz C2-2-2-5 1T or higher on my test socket A bench is not selected for further testing. I will be running these dimms on NF4 as well just to be sure. After that all not properly binned will go. 
All Promos and others I had which actually posted on C2-2-2-5 1T only ran 200MHz. Nothing ever did >205MHz on those timings. So I think it really should be CH5.
I have got a box with all dimms that did post >205MHz C2-3-2-6 1T. Waiting somewhere to something or nothing. I hardly use those. 

Edited by Sparks.nl
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Just now, ZFeSS said:

Don't underestimate CH-5. Good CH-5 can do 280+ 2-2-2-5.

I know, but those C2-3-2-6 dimms were no Winbond dimms. 
For the others. Those are Winbond, but some CH5 do 210-215 with 3.2v while I have CH5 dimms doing 235-250 with 3.2v. 

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I got 3 sticks of Corsair 3200C2 with CH-5, the best stick reaches 255Mhz at 3.5xV (as usual more doesn't help on CH) on my NF2 setup. My 6A sticks are better, the best pair is able to pass 32M at 257Mhz and 3.45V. Raising the VDimm to 3.6V gives me 261Mhz on the best stick and 259Mhz on the 2nd. However that might be the limit of my chipset and Vdimm regulators, not the ram itself.

That's why i prefer 6A over CH. Sadly i don't own genuine BH sticks to test with.

 

16 hours ago, 4n0nym0u5b3nch3r said:

Will any 512KB chip work?

The PLCC32 512K chips i am using on my A7N8X Boars are these:

PM49FL004T-33JCE

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I forgot to add a bit of interesting information to the Promos/Winbond/Infineon discussion:

Promos was a JointVenture of Infineon and MoselVitelic. Afaik the deal was that Infineon grants ProMos access to its interlectual property and patents, but promos has to sell its chips through infineon (so Promos -> Infineon -> any 3rd party). Instead Promos started selling directly to Mosel Vitelic which then resulted in a termination of the joint venture. Infineon even sued Mosel Vitelic and Promos for contract violations back then.

Here's the source for that (sadly in german, sorry!):

Link 1: https://www.infineon.com/cms/de/about-infineon/press/market-news/2003/128273.html

Link 2: https://www.infineon.com/cms/de/about-infineon/press/press-releases/2002/128489.html

So I think it's no coincidence that some Promos Chips look like Infineon/Winbond. Afaik Infineon and Winbond also hat a licensing and/or manufacturing agreement and the AT-6 chips are the result of that. However i'm not sure if infineon manufactured these for winbond or vice-versa. Still Promos/Infineon and Winbond/Infineon had close ties around the year 2000.

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18 minutes ago, Tzk said:

I forgot to add a bit of interesting information to the Promos/Winbond/Infineon discussion:

Promos was a JointVenture of Infineon and MoselVitelic. Afaik the deal was that Infineon grants ProMos access to its interlectual property and patents, but promos has to sell its chips through infineon (so Promos -> Infineon -> any 3rd party). Instead Promos started selling directly to Mosel Vitelic which then resulted in a termination of the joint venture. Infineon even sued Mosel Vitelic and Promos for contract violations back then.

Here's the source for that (sadly in german, sorry!):

Link 1: https://www.infineon.com/cms/de/about-infineon/press/market-news/2003/128273.html

Link 2: https://www.infineon.com/cms/de/about-infineon/press/press-releases/2002/128489.html

So I think it's no coincidence that some Promos Chips look like Infineon/Winbond. Afaik Infineon and Winbond also hat a licensing and/or manufacturing agreement and the AT-6 chips are the result of that. However i'm not sure if infineon manufactured these for winbond or vice-versa. Still Promos/Infineon and Winbond/Infineon had close ties around the year 2000.

Link to english versions:

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/about-infineon/press/market-news/2003/128273.html
https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/about-infineon/press/press-releases/2002/128489.html

luckily Infineon organizes the way I would do it. 😄

Edited by Sparks.nl
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After I stumbled over over a Toshiba DDR PC2100 stick on german ebay, which had exact the same looking of the typical Winbond IC, I think Winbond are actually Toshiba. The ICs were labeled with production year 2002 in Japan. 

In December 1995 Toshiba and Winbond started their first technology transfer agreement and over the next years 3 other generations followed. They mentioned in April 2000 that they were the first manufacturer in Taiwan who successfully offered 0.175µm 256Mbit DRAMs. And me guesses that this was the start of the BH chip, even though the birth of the holy BH-5 should be somewhat later. Anyway they also agreed to develop 0.130µm 512Mbit DRAMs for the first time together with Toshiba engineers and hope to start producing by the end of 2001, later mid 2002. However in the meantime Toshiba decided to exit dram market and Winbond lost its technology partner. This article states that they also ended the production at Winbonds fabs for Toshiba. But apparently they were still allowed to use Toshiba technologies to produce chips as claimed in February 2003, that the share of 0.130µm DRAM chips of the whole output should reach 33% in the first quartal. I think this makes also clear, that BH-5 and CH-5 were produced parallel in different fabs. Me guesses that they developed the 0.130µm process but didnt reached the goal of 512Mbit chips, as CH-5 were still 256Mbit. This forced Winbond once again into action and as result they decided to sign a contract in May 2002 with Infineon to use their 0.11µm process. In 2004 they signed another contract for 0.09µm process. In both contracts, Infineon gained access to the produced DRAM chips. It is very well possible that Winbond gave them some chips from their older fabs as well. I have an AT-6 as low as week 33 year 2002, so I think this matches. I also own a BT-5 "Winbond" week 36 year 2003, so this is probably the CH-5 equivalent while AT-6 should be BH-6.
Anyway Winbond decided to focus on special ICs and virtually exited DRAM market, becoming just another manufacturer for Infineon. Which is probably also the reason there was no successor to their BH / CH chips.

Taiwanese manufacturers simply had not the resources to develop their own chip designs by that time. The plan was to earn money by manufacturing chips for partners but they never had enough market share and revenue to start R&D by themselves. Also DRAM manufacturing was not the healthiest business. In the nineties were a lot of companies but most vanished.

The ProMos Ram definitely got no Winbond IC on it. When Infineon left the joint venture, they made a new arrangement with Elpida. Also if you desolder any other IC, you probably will see those two flat dots on the backside. So its all about which machines were used for production.

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