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Noxinite

Seller failing to refund after DOA

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14 hours ago, bolc said:

 

CPU (PCB + lid) were shipped in the plastic blister delidded with no paste  MEANS IHS can move as much as it wants on the die.

the original silicone seal was removed for the pcb ?

 

 

Not exactly. The silicone seal was removed, however there was a sheet of kitchen towel between the die and the IHS.

Crack:

IMG_20190309_152856.thumb.jpg.9cd13a4c5b12418dde9eec36612bb86b.jpg

(Some of the) damage to the box:

IMG_20190213_183817.thumb.jpg.810f63248f8a7f0fc9b1828562521cb9.jpgIMG_20190213_183826.thumb.jpg.d0fb0533ec40d32b72d96d6de6166769.jpg

Packed like so:

IMG_20190309_153304.thumb.jpg.711fdb7958a6d04f1cdcff5ae6394d8b.jpg

IMG_20190309_153801.thumb.jpg.d6c38bbeec70f230eeef2f417c936425.jpgIMG_20190309_153807.thumb.jpg.a288970fdfeca245a0f79e332960b3bc.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Crack didn't happen in shipping, IMO, based on pics.

Edited by Mr.Scott
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Looking very carefully at the pictures, I have to say something that attracted my attention.

For Heaven's sake people, please do not think that I am taking sides here. Just trying to be as objective as possible.

The packing is as good as it can get. No one that wants to be objective can doubt it. I have received a couple of processors from other sellers, with a lot worse packing and

they arrived alive and well.

As Mr.Scott said, there is no way that the cpu might have been damaged during transportation.

These pictures, so honestly taken by the buyer and explained, can't substantiate any claim from the transportation company.

Cpu was damaged either prior to shipping or after receipt.

 

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Posted (edited)

Just want to quickly state my 2¢ on this issue (shipping delidded cpu's many different ways) since I have a lot of experience with this. When selling my 4690k on OCN Forum and a Golden 4770k to my teammate and friend DR4G00N both around the same month and both arriving with cracked die. I spent hours packaging and recording the cpu's worked before I put them into the shipping boxes. With DR4G00N's cpu ( L310 from Allen ) I actually built several versions of custom shipping boxes and ended up with a smallish box built as a sort of an exoskeleton to suspend the cpu in the middle of the box in case the package got aggressively tossed around or partially crushed

After having to replace/refund both of these items I was very curious to see for myself how different packaging methods for delidded cpu's  affected the die itself. Having several dead but not physically damaged cpu's/dies I called up my brother to let him know what I was doing and to have him open, inspect, take pics and repackage and ship them back to me. I sent 2 cpu's at a time in 2 separate boxes to him and back, did this with the only 3 dead unscratched die cpu's I had back and forth at least twice for each cpu. I tried many methods with the ihs and cpu together both with and without the plastic clamshell.

1) cpu, shop towel ihs in clamshell, with that wrapped in blue shop/paper towel, and fully sealed with 2"w masking tape 2) same setup but lid taped to cpu and no clamshell. 3) + 4) Same as first and second but instead of shop towel separating ihs and cpu used lots of thicker thermal paste. 5) same as previous 2 (cpu,paste, ihs) but super glue ihs in 4 corners 6) black RTV like stock 7) naked cpu alone wrapped in blue shop/paper towel with ihs wrapped separately in same box 8 ) and naked cpu wrapped in shop towel till apprx 3" x 3" x 2" cube then adding ihs and wrapping more using 3 blue shop towel folded up to wrap tight and cover with masking tape

TLDR
So my conclusion is, I now only ship cpu's either fully sealed ihs with rtv/stock or naked cpu wrapped many many times in paper/shop towel and tape. IHS can be added after to save space or just wrap ihs the same and tape both together. Method idea came from Sam/Tapaka method of shipping me S775 cpu's without clamshell

I have not sold many cpu's since but did make a trade with a member here. My delidded i3 8350k for some AFR ram
Ask @AutisticChris how that cpu showed up and the reason I told him I only ship that way, period

Edited by GtiJason
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Posted (edited)

i dont beleive the packaging or shipping caused this, the cpu was cracked and dead b4 it left where it came from, if youre a man with any balls and honesty in you, you dont sell DOA items period to anyone , unfortunately that cant be proven, and seems hes used a courier or whatever that hasnt or doesnt really care about their packages  all that well  for the package to be damaged like it is at delivery,  but the non response to the requests from nox proves enough to me it was, thats just common sense , altho common sense isnt that common these days, and dont think hes not watching whats been written and responded to here in another name for sure to see what he can do to avoid the "refund" for it, thats how these bastards work, theyre as shifty as a gutter rat

i bought this last end of nov, rare board now, took 3 months to get here from israel, id given up on it, finally got here in a made up cardboard box taped together with the board only in a anti static bag,  fired it up, yes it worked, but no dual channel memory, so i tried to claim, waste of time, wanted me to send it back, so another 3 mths to get there ? i decided to cut my losses, not the same loss as yours nox, same principle, item was faulty when it left, seller came up with all the excuses in the world cause they can, so i have a board that works and all its good for is a ddr2  memory freq with a good stick in it, lol, dont waste any more time with it mate, just not worth the angst of it all

https://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/21541-dfi-lanparty-blood-iron-p45-t2rs-elite-motherboard-review.html

Edited by ozzie

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1 hour ago, AutisticChris said:

@GtiJason The 8350k arrived in perfect condition. Interested about how the AFR is doing, but not relevant to this thread.

I was talking more about this

image.thumb.png.17dd84227bce3d63e53706051148e75c.png

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12 hours ago, Fasttrack said:

Looking very carefully at the pictures, I have to say something that attracted my attention.

For Heaven's sake people, please do not think that I am taking sides here. Just trying to be as objective as possible.

The packing is as good as it can get. No one that wants to be objective can doubt it. I have received a couple of processors from other sellers, with a lot worse packing and

they arrived alive and well.

As Mr.Scott said, there is no way that the cpu might have been damaged during transportation.

These pictures, so honestly taken by the buyer and explained, can't substantiate any claim from the transportation company.

Cpu was damaged either prior to shipping or after receipt.

 

Nope, worst packaging for a cpu, period.

 

First of all if you only send a cpu without cooler or mobo or whatever you can send it as document. you take three bubble wrap envelopes, you seal the cpu in the plastic cover, put it in bubbled envelope three times, shipp it. It will travel as an envelope with other envelopes, so no bix boxes around or other things to be afraid of. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, GtiJason said:

I was talking more about this

image.thumb.png.17dd84227bce3d63e53706051148e75c.png

yeah, either send with ihs sealed, or send naked in the box, well wrapped so it can t move, and the ihs outside opf the box, secured.
if the ihs is left on the die (with a paper towel layer in between or not, one layer won 't protect much against shocks), and the plastic box containing those can move as whown o nthe picture, the cpu die could get broken.

but here that looks like a die that died because of too much weight/pressure on the lower side.

Edited by bolc

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Alex@ro said:

Nope, worst packaging for a cpu, period.

 

First of all if you only send a cpu without cooler or mobo or whatever you can send it as document. you take three bubble wrap envelopes, you seal the cpu in the plastic cover, put it in bubbled envelope three times, shipp it. It will travel as an envelope with other envelopes, so no bix boxes around or other things to be afraid of. 

+1

 

I have sent tons of delidded/relidded cpu in padded (bubble) enveloppe. cpu in its plastic box. box fully rolled with 1 layer of bubble film, put inside the bubble enveloppe such that the plastic box can't move. and Alex@Ro is truly right, it is much safer since they travel with light letters

Edited by bolc

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8700k into a z170 motherboard and it was not tested in a board that officially supports it is a mistake...

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8 minutes ago, subaruwrc said:

8700k into a z170 motherboard and it was not tested in a board that officially supports it is a mistake...

I will second that, unfortunately :(

 

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16 minutes ago, Fasttrack said:

I will second that, unfortunately :(

 

well that should not burn the cpu, or break its die...? mistake yes, but not the reason for the cleaved, dead die.

so either you mounted it badly and broke it, or it arrived this way. is the above picture of the as-received item ?

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i was quoting the statement that the test should have been done in a z170 ;)

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Posted (edited)

i don't have a time for reply before

i selling hardware i ask a facebook for video !! all purchase my hardware have a video before send the parcel !! 

noxinite no !

1557498459-1.png

i send screenshot. the parcel is waranty 500€

he receved the parcel and but the delivery driver had signed for it himself

1557498861-2.png

i reimburse you when post office reimburse me but post office no because he accept the parcel 

https://www.noelshack.com/2019-09-1-1551127350-reclammr.png

 

oh mister niuulh with your mafia club !!

Edited by Ziken
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Just a thought.

Pay half now and half after the claim with the handler has been dealt with.
 

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lets not act like the modding of the cpu is really modding, its covering some pins on it. if anything it will kill the mobo not the cpu. 

regardless modding the cpu wont make the bottom half of the die crack :P 

Packaging is bad like alex stated. Put the cpu in clam shell then put the ihs by itself wrapped in something. keep them separate. 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

6 hours ago, subaruwrc said:

8700k into a z170 motherboard and it was not tested in a board that officially supports it is a mistake...

Obviously in hindsight it was stupid choice. However, it should work fine in my Z170 board as both G4900 (bios mod) and G5400 (bios + hard mod) work flawlessly.

5 hours ago, bolc said:

well that should not burn the cpu, or break its die...? mistake yes, but not the reason for the cleaved, dead die.

so either you mounted it badly and broke it, or it arrived this way. is the above picture of the as-received item ?

I think I mounted it with water block once and then in later testing (i.e. 5 minutes later when it was clear something was wrong) I had my LN2 pot sitting on top of the IHS. To crack the die you would have to tighten the mounting screws ridiculously tight with just a waterblock.

That image is from a few weeks after the CPU was delivered. Below is one I took 3 days after delivery and when it was obvious it was broken already. Please note you cannot see the crack from looking at the top of the die, but the CPU was already clearly dead, see video for evidence of what I mean.

IMG_20190216_190544.thumb.jpg.72f44938aa883038f01b7306b99e9a69.jpg.9003ceb9658ca05d416efbfd51a87dc8.jpg

2 hours ago, Ziken said:

i don't have a time for reply before

i selling hardware i ask a facebook for video !! all purchase my hardware have a video before send the parcel !! 

noxinite no !

1557498459-1.png

i send screenshot. the parcel is waranty 500€

he receved the parcel and but the delivery driver had signed for it himself

1557498861-2.png

i reimburse you when post office reimburse me but post office no because he accept the parcel 

https://www.noelshack.com/2019-09-1-1551127350-reclammr.png

 

oh mister niuulh with your mafia club !!

I never recieved the video, so I am not sure what point you are making? But I accepted the screenshot as proof it worked.

I still hold to the belief that it was damaged at some point after you took that screenshot. And clearly if the delivery driver signed for the parcel, then I did not accept the parcel -  I never had a chance to reject it. I reached out to Hermes and they agreed that this was not acceptable, however they also made it clear that the contract was between the seller and Mondial Relay.

Ziken, you also haven't addressed the fact that you ignored many of my PMs and never seemed to have made any progress with the claim against the delievery company. Or, ever offered to refund me yourself while you follow through the claim at your own expense.

 

Here is an image of the CPU after I modded it and before I tested it). Clearly the soldering is crap, but it only covers the required pads. I covered all of the pads that are different on 1151-1 and 1151-2, but even with all of the tape removed the motherboard still detected no CPU in the socket:

IMG_20190213_215158.thumb.jpg.cc551c05660337944a1f631b85fc51d1.jpg

See video of what happens when the box is shaken (obviously filmed after all other testing was completed). You can hear the CPU sliding from one end to the other.

Edited by Noxinite

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Posted (edited)

On the topic of shipping any payment insurances:

As someone whose packing methods are somewhat praised in this thread, yet who had to multiple refunds this year alone, I can say that unless you record (with a video, or via an independent witness) the whole process of packing and handing the item over to the shipping company and the recipient does the same in the opposite direction - any successful shipping damage claim that you file against a courier is a result of their incompetence. The current practice, also actively advised by the big consulting firms I happen to work for, is to direct handling of all customer claims to a court (or some third party), where the customer will be very likely to dismiss their claim as (a) they have to provide proof that would exclude any other source of damage, (b) they would have to handle the legal fees unless themselves are a (wannabe) law practitioner (c) case handlers tend to be overloaded so hearings are scheduled many years after the precedent, when no one really cares anymore.

 

Edited by TaPaKaH
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, TaPaKaH said:

On the topic of shipping any payment insurances:

As someone whose packing methods are somewhat praised in this thread, yet who had to multiple refunds this year alone, I can say that unless you record (with a video, or via an independent witness) the whole process of packing and handing the item over to the shipping company and the recipient does the same in the opposite direction - any successful shipping damage claim that you file against a courier is a result of their incompetence. The current practice, also actively advised by the big consulting firms I happen to work for, is to direct handling of all customer claims to a court (or some third party), where the customer will be very likely to dismiss their claim as (a) they have to provide proof that would exclude any other source of damage, (b) they would have to handle the legal fees unless themselves are a (wannabe) law practitioner (c) case handlers tend to be overloaded so hearings are scheduled many years after the precedent, when no one really cares anymore.

 

what you are saying is that chances are close to 0 ; the insurance would actually only hold if they'd  loose the package?

Edited by bolc

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Maybe, if mutually agreed, seller and buyer split the damage ( 250 each ) and move on ?

Too many grey areas to be able to prove at which point the damage occurred.

@Ziken, show that you are a legit seller and accept half reimbursement - this will ( possibly ) allow the administration here to let you sell more things.

@Noxinite, mate, to be totally honest, despite the fact that I respect you all the way thru as a member of HWBOT, maybe reach an arrangement with Ziken, as proposed.

2 meters high fence man ? And the delivery man signed instead of you ?

Well... I would find that delivery man ( company ) and have a strong word - at least.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Splave said:

Packaging is bad like alex stated. Put the cpu in clam shell then put the ihs by itself wrapped in something. keep them separate. 

 

This is really the most important part imo

Edited by GtiJason
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