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Leeghoofd

DO NOT RESUB OLD SCORES FOR SEASON 2020

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, The_Silver said:

the quickest way is to remove as soon as possible the possibility of removing the sub I think

I believe, however, that it is not necessary to remove the old sub, posting a new one and doing a recalculation the points are assigned to the most recent

what I do not consider practicable is from now on to check every single sub to verify that it was performed in 2020, that the latest version of the cpuz or a specific background was used, an immense work that would require many people 24/7

for what purpose then? you might as well do it only for competitions that are less and easily controlled and leave only those in the current season

 

Edited by delly

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, delly said:

the same thing that even half the hwbot community did last year, not just me ...
probably new rules were needed even before, only that I still don't understand how they are manageable


remove hardware and global from season and leaving only the competitions is the easiest way in my opinion,  for those the personal career is fine ;)

@delly doesn't make it right. The guidline at hwbot is to report such dodgy practices, not join them.

Edited by cbjaust
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Posted (edited)

Yano you could also just not be a cheating piece of tihs. That is probably the easiest solution of all 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Edited by Leeghoofd
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8 minutes ago, delly said:

I believe, however, that it is not necessary to remove the old sub, posting a new one and doing a recalculation the points are assigned to the most recent
 

If you can't delete it we can directly find the duplicate one and ban you in a flash

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5 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

If you can't delete it we can directly find the duplicate one and ban you in a flash

well, so the @The_Silversolution to prevent the elimination of old sub remains valid

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, cbjaust said:

@delly doesn't make it right. The guidline at hwbot is to report such dodgy practices, not join them.

you're right, but before today there was no rule about it, as soon as it was pointed out (yesterday) things changed, I myself promptly canceled all the results, others I don't know

mine was only a reasoning on the manageability of the proposed new rules, not on the fact that new rules served and are necessary
if you want to keep the season as it is now
 
Edited by delly
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, delly said:
you're right, but before today there was no rule about it, as soon as it was pointed out (yesterday) things changed, I myself promptly canceled all the results, others I don't know

mine was only a reasoning on the manageability of the proposed new rules, not on the fact that new rules served and are necessary
 

Yes, that's all well and good, however just because there's no specific rule doesn't change the fact that resubmitting old scores is clearly against the spirit that hwbot is trying to cultivate here. We're not robots and we don't need an algorithm to determine our ethics.

Edited by cbjaust
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After reading all this The Silver's idea that you cant remove the sub is the easiest and the best  way you would be allowed a time to be able to edit any errors in the sub but say after a day the user cant change it or delete it. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, cbjaust said:

Yes, that's all well and good, however just because there's no specific rule doesn't change the fact that resubmitting old score is clearly against the spirit that hwbot is trying to cultivate here. We're not robots and we don't need an algorithm to determine our ethics.

probably many did not see it wrong, perhaps also because for a whole year no one had ever pointed it out, now that it is official it is different and at least for me it will never be done again ;)

although I continue to consider the new rules proposed to be very difficult to manage

Edited by delly

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Posted (edited)

I favor seasonal points as they were last year - global, hardware and competition included.

Year of a run can be confirmed by one  of:  (any one is sufficient)

Benchmate 0.10.5 or later

CPU-z 1.91+

CPU-z vintage version with a new skin

a 2020 non-competition wallpaper

the wallpaper prescribed for a 2020 contest

 

Edited by jab383
added Benchmate
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Nothing has been decided yet on the rules but we have to take action for further abuse.  If the removal or inactivity of the delete button is doable for Fred and his team we go that route

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I see two scenarios of "sandbagging" and one scenario of cheating.

1)Uploading an old improved score because someone beat your old #1. This is real sandbagging, some people don't like it, but for me its perfectly acceptable.

2)Uploading an old improved score, beating your old score just to bump new season ranking. This is questionable to me, however I can't say its outright wrong.

3)Intentionally deleting old score, then re-uploading exact same score to bump season ranking. This is 100% unacceptable and should be fully considered cheating.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, bigblock990 said:

I see two scenarios of "sandbagging" and one scenario of cheating.

1)Uploading an old improved score because someone beat your old #1. This is real sandbagging, some people don't like it, but for me its perfectly acceptable.

2)Uploading an old improved score, beating your old score just to bump new season ranking. This is questionable to me, however I can't say its outright wrong.

3)Intentionally deleting old score, then re-uploading exact same score to bump season ranking. This is 100% unacceptable and should be fully considered cheating.

yep number two is a grey area but if repeating the points you mention in 1) and 3) gets people to take notice and realise the rights and wrongs of competitive benching, I'm all for it. :P

Edited by cbjaust

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1 and 2 are equal to me. Both sandbagging.

Having to verify all new subs is just not feasible, sure front page stuff can be quickly checked but checking all new subs made each day just isn't going to happen. Also adding more rules will probably cause people issues, people want simplicity remember? (One of the attractions of BM I believe?)

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Posted (edited)

another doubt that came to my mind, I will give you an example to make me understand better:
cine15 7700k 1200pt in 2019
cine15 7700k 1150pt in 2020 with correct screen and everything (cpuz latest version etc)
the second would not give points because the old one is superior, but shouldn't it equally be valid for the 2020 season?

Edited by delly

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bigblock990 said:

I see two scenarios of "sandbagging" and one scenario of cheating.

1)Uploading an old improved score because someone beat your old #1. This is real sandbagging, some people don't like it, but for me its perfectly acceptable.

2)Uploading an old improved score, beating your old score just to bump new season ranking. This is questionable to me, however I can't say its outright wrong.

3)Intentionally deleting old score, then re-uploading exact same score to bump season ranking. This is 100% unacceptable and should be fully considered cheating.

Not in every case it's sandbagging in reference to #1.
Sometimes it's defending your position with a certain bench/hardware type, I mean if someone beats a result you've had it's only natural to go after it to regain the top spot - It's called competition.
I've done that before myself in cases when I got bumped and as long as that is the case I don't see a problem. Sometimes I'll get bored and drag out a certain piece and rebench just to see if I can improve the result and if I do, I'll sub it - No harm, no foul.


Concerning #2, Largely the same as #1 but the difference I see is the intent of it when done.

With redo's (Actual rebenching) of an older result it's not like you'll score even more points (Not supposed to anyway) to improve your #1 result in the rankings, points should more or less remain the same in that way because the ranking itself doesn't change but does have a benefit of making it harder for someone to take that away from you. Yes I've done that before too with no change in points awarded because the ranking itself didn't change, equaling no additional points scored.

With #3 - Nope, that's definitely gaming the system, making it work in a way it was never intended to for getting points. Any runs done and subbed for that season should actually be done within that season to be fair about it.
Some have brought up the issue about backups stashed, from what I'm thinking as long as it's a sub that hasn't been submitted before it's fair game but deleting and reposting a previously subbed result is a definite no-no.

Just my 2 cents for whatever it is or not worth.

Edited by Bones
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12 minutes ago, delly said:

another doubt that came to my mind, I will give you an example to make me understand better:
cine15 7700k 1200pt in 2019
cine15 7700k 1150pt in 2020 with correct screen and everything (cpuz latest version etc)
the second would not give points because the old one is superior, but shouldn't it equally be valid for the 2020 season?

Yes, that was the whole premise of the seasonal ranking; rebench and beat an old score, upload it and if it meets the requirements to add to the current season's points tally, profit. If you rebench and DON'T beat an old score no new points possible because your score would earn exactly zero for global, hardware, GTPP and TPP. If there was no seasonal ranking a new score less than an old score would most likely not be uploaded at all.

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4 minutes ago, cbjaust said:

Yes, that was the whole premise of the seasonal ranking; rebench and beat an old score, upload it and if it meets the requirements to add to the current season's points tally, profit. If you rebench and DON'T beat an old score no new points possible because your score would earn exactly zero for global, hardware, GTPP and TPP. If there was no seasonal ranking a new score less than an old score would most likely not be uploaded at all.

wouldn't it be better at this point to make the season more independent? during the upload choose if you want to participate in that according to the new rules?

in this way the results would also be "filtered" making the moderators' job easier

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Bones said:

Not in every case it's sandbagging in reference to #1.
Sometimes it's defending your position with a certain bench/hardware type, I mean if someone beats a result you've had it's only natural to go after it to regain the top spot - It's called competition.
I've done that before myself in cases when I got bumped and as long as that is the case I don't see a problem. Sometimes I'll get bored and drag out a certain piece and rebench just to see if I can improve the result and if I do, I'll sub it - No harm, no foul.

You sorta misunderstood me. We are definitely in agreeance.

In my post I was specifically referring to old scores from original session, ie sandbag, ie found on usb ect ect. I do this myself as do many others, however I am also aware some people don't like it. But its been a common practice on hwbot forever.

Any time someone rebenches a pieice of hardware, whether to take back a top spot, or just improve your current spot, this is both 100% legit, and also encouraged. This is the true spirit of benching. Rebenching for a better score is not and never has been sandbagging :)

Edited by bigblock990
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I make a summary of how I see it all ^^
I think the season ranking is made so that even if we give the same score or a slightly better score the points awarded will be very low.
because it is done in relation to the old (point difference between the two scores).the only way to have all the points and delete the old score and in put back a new one.
The only way to get all the points is to delete the old score and put a new one back in. So the way that annoys moderators and overclockers the least is simply to prevent people from deleting their scores (later we can give people a week to delete the sub before blocking the feature).  

and that allows people to have sandbags which for me is part of the competition.

 

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@The_Silver that is not how the points are awarded. A new and improved score uploaded this season will make a certain amount of points and the previous score will have all points awarded set to zero. The new season ranking will be increased by the number of points awarded to the new score.

I just improved this score and it made 3.7 hardware points. My previous score now has zero points but it used to have 3.6 hardware points. My new score is now one of my top Top 30 Best Hardware Benchmark Results for 2020 with 3.7 points:

image.png.8df06a0e8b98e57122ab0a2cb94a820e.png

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it is necessary to wait to see if the calculation takes everything into account on the total points because for me for example if I make the total of the points hardware + global it is much higher than the total mark 

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cleaned up the thread due to personal verbal abuse.. relax guys... I proposed the DEL button solution to the programmers... hold your horses

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