_mat_ Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) That only shows that we desperately need a real memory bench to legitimize good memory kits. My concern about Geekbench and other benchmarks that deliberately don't give a rat's ass about competitive benchmark is, that sooner or later it all comes back to HWBOT for not being "fun". We already have no control over the development of Windows, CPUs, hardware timers and much more, and look where that got us: Is this what fun looks to you? It is definitely not for a newcomer or somebody that just wants to show off his system. That's why Geekbench is still so popular. You need no effort to make it work, it just does. But popularity doesn't say anything about the quality of the score. That fat "N" in the list above and my research tells a different story. They are going for quantity and their results are not appropriate for competitive benchmarking or in fact worthy of any kind of ranking/list. So the last thing we need is that benchmark developers walk all over us as well. It is an absolute necessity that we cooperate with these devs to work around the issues we certainly have no control over. If the developer doesn't want that, we have a single weapon to decide our own future: global points. So please let us them wisely. Edited February 6, 2020 by _mat_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 No, definitely not my idea of fun. But to be totally honest, I was equally comfortable before Bechmate arrived. But, I will make a more general comment, that is vastly more important than Geek. Ten years ago, I started suspecting a mild decline in benching and overclocking. Five years ago it was verified. A year ago, the decline looked like a steep hill going down by 35%. And now it is freefall. It is not Geek or Benchmate to blame. Will not expand the discussion more, since this thread is irrelevant to my comment. But I can't hold my mind wondering, if and when the New Owners of HWBOT, will present to us a masterplan of evolution. Some guidelines of what to expect. And this is not a personal opinion. First time in its life, the ex - N.1 and currently N.2 Team in the World, has literally stopped benching. Anything. " Wait and see " is the general consensus. Hoping for the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 well I'll bite, the elephant in the room is also changing benchmark files is a no no. DLL files from what I know can have quite an effect. In order for Geekbench3 to work on 64 core AMD and for intel 28 core ES 3175x's is to swap the DLL files from geekbench 4 latest version to the geekbench 3 folder and overwrite them. ?? Are they just for the CPU detection? No one but primate labs knows and we certainly burned that bridge already. What If we start swapping some files from r15 into r20 to make it "work"? Oh wait benchmate checks file integrity. RIP global geek3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex@ro Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) Disabling points retroactively is a big mistake hwbot has been doing for a while. You are literally shitting on a lot of people's work and i know many guys that packed their bags for this. Geekbench is not fine for AMD AM4? Ok, disable points for AMD AM4, leave other safe platforms alone. You found out a exploit on something? Fine, disable points from now on on that benchmark. If a score is suspicious mods will check it. Something like this translated in real-life you will be sued and you will loose. So 2020 what benchmarks will get points on 2D? Slot-machine cinebench, junkie killing cpu's hwbot x265 4k, superpi if you can make it run on your platform and that's not easy for many people , probably till _mat_ discores some wicked exploit that 5 people on this planet can do it and then points will be disabled as well , wprime 1024 which is kind of slot machine again since on modern os's no tweaks work, gpu-pi which again is highest freq wins with a little variation and that's it folks. You binned mems, you tweaked your timings, you benched and you got a good gb3 score on older platform? well you are an idiot wasting your time since hwbot will disable points on legit scores done by you in past making your score irellevant and your work good for nothing. I quote here the biggest politician Poland will have in future, your beloved Xtreme Addict : " Nobody knows, nobody cares ". That should be hwbot motto. Edited February 6, 2020 by Alex@ro 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, Alex@ro said: Disabling points retroactively is a big mistake hwbot has been doing for a while. You are literally shitting on a lot of people's work and i know many guys that packed their bags for this. Geekbench is not fine for AMD AM4? Ok, disable points for AMD AM4, leave other safe platforms alone. More rules for noobs to mess up and more moderation load for our mods. 24 minutes ago, Alex@ro said: Something like this translated in real-life you will be sued and you will loose. So 2020 what benchmarks will get points on 2D? Slot-machine cinebench, junkie killing cpu's hwbot x265 4k, superpi if you can make it run on your platform and that's not easy for many people , probably till _mat_ discores some wicked exploit that 5 people on this planet can do it and then points will be disabled as well , wprime 1024 which is kind of slot machine again since on modern os's no tweaks work, gpu-pi which again is highest freq wins with a little variation and that's it folks. You binned mems, you tweaked your timings, you benched and you got a good gb3 score on older platform? well you are an idiot wasting your time since hwbot will disable points on legit scores done by you in past making your score irellevant and your work good for nothing. I quote here the biggest politician Poland will have in future, your beloved Xtreme Addict : " Nobody knows, nobody cares ". That should be hwbot motto. What about pifast, wprime32, r11.5, global. Those were removed as well and many people worked hard on those. Wprime32 is actually more tweakable than half of the benches we currently have. I guess we just progress and make changes as we evolve. I believe those were removed through a vote? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxinite Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I find it interesting that it's always the same people complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3urner Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Splave said: What If we start swapping some files from r15 into r20 to make it "work"? Oh wait benchmate checks file integrity. I think thats the way to go if we dont wanna loose gb3. Since "we" (to be correct only @_mat_) has the possibility to make an exception in bm for those benches with tweaked files. If we include a new tweaked gb3 in bm (as @Splave suggests it here) 2 hours ago, Splave said: . In order for Geekbench3 to work on 64 core AMD and for intel 28 core ES 3175x's is to swap the DLL files from geekbench 4 latest version to the geekbench 3 folder and overwrite them. ?? it should be fine because then it is protected from tweaks outside. But thats the hard way. The easy one is just diabling points for gb3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_mat_ Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, der8urner said: If we include a new tweaked gb3 in bm (as @Splave suggests it here) I am not allowed to do anything with Geekbench. The dev threatens with a lawsuit because I'm obviously profiting from derivative work by fixing his product with a free tool. ? Edited February 6, 2020 by _mat_ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3urner Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I have to agree with @Alex@ro disableling points would mean shitting on the countless effort of much people. And to get back to the topic: " is oc dead or dying?" If we would disable points and loose another benchmark we would ourselfs contribute to kill overclocking faster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_mat_ Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 It amazes me that everybody thinks XOC is dying while demanding that nothing should be done about it at the same time. That's not how it works. HWBOT needs to adapt to the new challenges today, not dwell on the past. We have a saying in Austria: "Was sich nicht bewegt, ist tot", roughly translated into "If it's not moving, it's dead". Moving on does not devalue the achievements of the past. Those were celebrated until the next record comes along. That's XOC. The only thing that sucks is that these achievements are not properly frozen in time. So let's ask the question how we can honor benchmark results from the past. Two things come to mind: Implement a nice(r) timeline to revisit the records of each generation. Freeze the ranking or at least seperate it from new results after the benchmark was frozen. Seeing records made with zombie-modded beauties on liquid nitrogen getting replaced by a workstation card two years later isn't fun to watch. For what? A few hardware points? Maybe we should have a look into properly preserving our achievements other than trying to hold on to them as long as possible. Fun question to prove my point: Who was to the first guy to break the DDR3 3000 barrier? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Don_Dan Posted February 6, 2020 Crew Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, _mat_ said: Fun question to prove my point: Who was to the first guy to break the DDR3 3000 barrier? I guess it was Jtchen2002 https://valid.x86.fr/show_oc.php?id=637388 Edited February 6, 2020 by Don_Dan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 @_mat_ Since you are such a high IQ person ( obviously, to say the least ), you certainly know that the only language in the world that never lies is mathematics. Statistics is a vital part of math science. And official statistics HERE, show an accelerated pace of less active members year to year, reaching as low as less than 2000 for 2019. It is not my job but also it is not yours either to find out what has caused this. Leading a Team of 360.000 employees worldwide as Managing director and Vice President of one of the biggest Multi National Investment Banks, I can re-assure you that : Clarity, honesty, hard extended work, innovation, business stability, and personnel dignity are some of the basic elements that attract customers. I have not observed thru the years most of the above. On the contrary - the moto here till a couple of years back could easily be " Take it or f..k off" and a finger pointing to the door. Recently, HWBOT started updating its FB page. I read four time - WE NEED YOU. Well, really... HWBOT and its new owners need us the members for money to survive We need a fair playground to exercise our hobby. There is a vital difference between the two. North pole to South pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 6, 2020 Crew Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) We need your input, not you for money Mr Bank dude... seems I'm hearing my father in law reasoning. Him also being one of the big bank shots in Belgium, treating his kids like staff and still only thinking in numbers... even after 10 years of retirement... I put up them posts at FB coz people wanted to provide input on upcoming compos. I just wanted to reach more by upping that on Zuckerberg's creation. Maybe think more before you post more of your favorite unfounded chit chat George. HWBot will remain a free service for its users... We don't scam people like banks and politicians do daily. Talking and selling air is not my bis, maybe also one of the reasons me and my father in law never matched ? We just pull points and impose rules on rules coz some don't play nice... That's your fair playground right there dude... Get a grip with reality! People that wanted to make HWBot big biss, left the building a long time ago. The ones that are still here want to secure this database and update it! And we try to give the community compos they voted for themselves. Threads are open for Team Cup, Country Cup and Cheapaz Chips , feel free to post constructively there... Nice derail again, job well done Edited February 6, 2020 by Leeghoofd 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 6, 2020 Crew Share Posted February 6, 2020 7 hours ago, _mat_ said: That only shows that we desperately need a real memory bench to legitimize good memory kits. That is exactly what Geekbench3 is for many Matt, it reacts to the littlest timing, a true marvel for memory enthusiasts/tweakers.It is really tough on memory stability. Is it secure? ofcourse not you proved that, However, nothing will ever be as you mentioned: OSses & hardware constantly evolve too and there will be a day another smart programmer can prolly fool Benchmate too in the long run. But we can try to bundle forces and make it as hard as possible to avoid bugged/tricked/shopped scores 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0ud_sil3nc3 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Tell that to Judge Mohammed George.... I dare you ? HWboints will always be,, too many peeps spend time on this, no need to get that undone.... Let me tell you a story about Mohammed ? I think no reason to disable points on unaffected platforms, rather only disable points on affected platforms once no other solution can be implemented to ensure validity of the benchmark. But Allen brings up a good point, with the dll swapping that needs to be done to even get the benchmark to open along with having at least of 8GB of ram available for the big chips. This is for sure a gray area but there's no other way to make GB3 work on the newer hcc CPUs. Let's get back on topic . . . There has never been a time a consumer could purchase a cpu of this calibre, pepper your Angus all, the fireworks show is going to be yuge Edited February 7, 2020 by l0ud_sil3nc3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0ud_sil3nc3 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 hours ago, _mat_ said: . . . Fun question to prove my point: Who was to the first guy to break the DDR3 3000 barrier? I thought it was you http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?258612-Update-1-Corsair-GTX6-new-world-records-3078-MHz-CL8-3060-CL7 At least I thought you were the first for CL 7 correct? Monstru a month or too earlier with CL 8 iirc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0ud_sil3nc3 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Don_Dan said: I guess it was Jtchen2002 https://valid.x86.fr/show_oc.php?id=637388 Andre's shill account lol Didn't know he was first to 3k, TIL in OC history. Thanks Capn! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed.fastest Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I think the only problem right now is too many rules & complaints, and too little bench & result. How about we bench like the old days, what cheater did will always cheat no matter what we do, we need more energy to bench this day because all of this happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbjaust Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 Is today (7-Feb-2020) the day this behemoth is released? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_mat_ Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, l0ud_sil3nc3 said: I thought it was you I was the first to break 3G on AMD and started the whole Bulldozer memory frequency crap by taking the DDR3 crown with 3311 MHz. That was a wild time for memory overclocking for sure, lots of hours and money spent to be on the top. And all that's left are 1.5 hardware points. I personally couldn't give more of a fuck, I'd rather see these achievements displayed/promoted in a better way. Being listed in the record list a lot more satisfying than hardware points: https://hwbot.org/benchmark/memory_frequency/ So that's why I think that a better timeline for records, separated for example by platform could be a way out to have more flexibility for decisions regarding benchmarks and its points. Additionally a list of lifetime achievements on the user page would be nice. Something like: * First to achieve 100.000 points in 3DMark01 * Held the Super Pi global record for 35 days in Nov 2015 Benchmarks and points come and go, achievements are here to stay. Edited February 7, 2020 by _mat_ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0ud_sil3nc3 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, cbjaust said: Is today (7-Feb-2020) the day this behemoth is released? Yesss 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 18 hours ago, Alex@ro said: Eventually you will remove all tweakable benchmarks and let the click and run max freq wins only Albrecht's long term goal fully exposed. I'm not saying Hwbot I'm saying Albrecht. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpatodonaldo Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) afraid about rankings? so recalculate the rankings dividing the result by the price of the cpu or mobo or vga... I think this (is) could be OC spirit just my thought Edited February 7, 2020 by superpatodonaldo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) she's a beast! 1800W load at 1.65vCore (idle is 300w need to pour constantly) 5.2-5.5 depending on bench load and 4.2-4.3 on strong water cooling Edited February 7, 2020 by Splave 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfpoole Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/6/2020 at 10:19 AM, Splave said: well I'll bite, the elephant in the room is also changing benchmark files is a no no. DLL files from what I know can have quite an effect. In order for Geekbench3 to work on 64 core AMD and for intel 28 core ES 3175x's is to swap the DLL files from geekbench 4 latest version to the geekbench 3 folder and overwrite them. ?? Which DLLs did you have to replace? The CPUIDSDK DLLs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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