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Do you think in house benchers should be points disabled only?


Do you think in house benchers should be points disabled only? It's anonymous so don't be afraid.   

41 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think in house benchers should be points disabled only?

    • Yes, It's not fair
      8
    • No, I dont care
      33


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In house bencher, someone either paid by a company or works for a company or given unlimited access etc. 

In some regards I feel this maybe the only way for us to really grow, I also can't help but to feel guilty sometimes. 

They can still claim world records but it gives the people a chance to accel in rankings etc. 

Edited by Splave
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My opinion, No, I don't care.

Reason, if you're an active participant at HWB you already know what you're getting into.

A better option would be the league changes that I've been spouting for years already.

Also, don't really care if the poll is anonymous. I got nothing to be ashamed of. 

Good poll Al.  :) 

Edited by Mr.Scott
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And that's what Allen 2-5 spots up ? you guys have to work and compete at the highest level. Each time you have to prove yourselves. This brings a lot of pressure with it and requires total devotion on eg these launch events. People just think give me that 5.9 CPU and I'll do the same... some might just do that, however many will fail...

I feel reverting back to the old point algorythm is a better solution for most... but that's for 2021

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I'm fine with points for in house benchers. Main reason - such results will be listed on main page, giving these results necessary attention of the community. Probably we should have some competitions hosted by these guys here - would be great to get a prize from HiCookie / Shamino etc. All in all, we usually get detailed guides from these guys and that is their priceless contribution.

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My take is this. I'm fine with in house guys getting points and whatnot. They worked their asses off to become in house guys and its cool to see what they can accomplish.

 

I agree with @Mr.Scottthough that the leagues just need restructured. Elite vs Elite, Rookies vs Rookies, and Everyone else free for all.
 

Realistically i think the best way to do points and what not would be do like esports do their leagues. You are in X bracket so you only compete against X bracket. Leave the WRs and such up there, but maybe just like an overall bracket, but the points are distributed from their. You get so many points from being whatever number in your "Bracket/League"

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1 hour ago, keeph8n said:

My take is this. I'm fine with in house guys getting points and whatnot. They worked their asses off to become in house guys and its cool to see what they can accomplish.

 

I agree with @Mr.Scottthough that the leagues just need restructured. Elite vs Elite, Rookies vs Rookies, and Everyone else free for all.
 

Realistically i think the best way to do points and what not would be do like esports do their leagues. You are in X bracket so you only compete against X bracket. Leave the WRs and such up there, but maybe just like an overall bracket, but the points are distributed from their. You get so many points from being whatever number in your "Bracket/League"

 

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10 years i'm in oc and since ten years it's the same drama !

of course they receve hardware of course it was binned hardware but does they receve time and skill ? 

who  now how many time before they work on bios for us ? 

 

i think elite and extreme ranking is good 

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I often would like to know, how well binned a certain piece of hardware is. It would be nice if it became common to add some information about the amount of binning that was done to get hold of the chips.

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1 hour ago, Radi said:

10 years i'm in oc and since ten years it's the same drama !

of course they receve hardware of course it was binned hardware but does they receve time and skill ? 

who  now how many time before they work on bios for us ? 

 

i think elite and extreme ranking is good 

Yes totally agree 

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I'll say it like this.

Every competitor knows or at least should know what they are getting into here.
It's not like a certain few have to deal with it, we all do.

I will also say in-house benchers DO have an advantage, no question about that and skill is required to get the best scores along with luck being on your side.
They do get pieces that's already been tested (Binned) in most cases, in some cases the pieces are not binned but they still have manufacturer support behind them - I mean the house guys ARE right there where they are made right?

When speaking of skill, that is very important and makes a large difference for squeezing the most from a chip, binned or otherwise but there is also the flip-side of this concerning a piece being a D.O.G. of a piece of hardware - No skills you'd have will ever overcome that issue.

The likelyhood of the average "Joe" having a dog is clearly there, for the house guys probrably not and that's just how it is.


The other-other side of that coin is every so often a freak piece will appear in the retail pipe and it's the "Joe" that gets it instead. Been there, done that with mine and by now everyone knows I've had a few freaks here of my own - In fact I've still got a few now.

In the end, although the house guys DO have an inherent advantage it's still no guarantee of anything which is why it doesn't matter to me.
You wanna play, it's a big sandbox and expect some of the kids in it to be bigger than others.

Either that or go home.

Edited by Bones
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Do not care if in house benchers get points , to the contrary it makes this hobby even better. There is always gem cpus to be found on the wild that matches or pass bin hardware from manuf. , i have seen it on every cpu launch.  Keep the points , you tweaked and work your ass off for those scores :D

Edited by chispy
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Tbh the only advantages that they use are for binning, etc. I don't see in house benchers using skus that don't exist (skylake 1,3,5 core etc) and I don't see them manipulating how the cpu handles code to make it run a specific bench better unless they release their tweaks so really not any more "unfair" than people getting free stuff imho.

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I dont mind everyone having a go. inhouse or not.  but then I like the League approach we have. What  I strongly believe though is that the boint system must change. If Im overclocking a processor that is made from 3Ghz up to 5Ghz then some real scores should be there. If someone then get it up to 8Ghz so be it my boints should not be considered less because of the same. I think that is the biggest detractor at present especially to bring new rookies in and keeping them. Spending 2 weeks  and get 0.1 boint is just not helping.  I have been playing with a Xeon the last few days. I outrank the few who have used the same by a 50% margin and it aint even worth any hardware points worth the name.  so lets ensure people are encouraged to overclock old second hand hardware cheaper as a learning ground before breaking the new expensive hardware.

Meanwhile I also consider that any bios mod used by Inhouse clockers by rule should made publicly available to all on hwbot in the forums or the point should not be allowed. Considering that would otherwise be counterproductive to the community here. I know some of the Guru's do the same already and it is highly appreciated.

It would probably the death of the bot if we dont have the inhouse guys actively being able to compete here... simply as a new place would pop up as the need for speed is there.

 

Edited by Matsglobetrotter
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Well ... it's a tough situation.

In house benchers must be awarded , because they work hard for their top results and of cource they are very skilled .

But at the end of the day , a common extreme user will never have the same chances to achieve top numbers.

Binned hardware and special software , will always give that extra boost to the "insiders".

Skills alone will never be enough ... you need the means (materials) too.

 

 

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My 5 cent.

First day after release in house results were always strong and yes it can destroy the spirit of an average Joe even to try to compete. But it is not the issue or to blame the 1st places. I see no competition in the runner up category where it was enoromus presence in the past. Nowdays it can easily happen that between Allen's WR and a watercooled daily rig's result its like 3 to 5 entry uploaded and even the half of it is subzero. That is even more killing the will to enter. I think one root cause is the pointing system.
Let's get the GPUPI for CPU - 1B as example, 6x global results. 1st place 181 pts, 5th position 69 pts and from the 8th position it worth 1 fuggin global.
Lets check 2nd example Cine R15, 6x global results. 1st place gets 161 pts, 10th position already just 61 pts. Its still too much points for the top results and too less for the runner up. Normally in top 10 its like at least 3 to 5 in house guys. What room left again for the average Joe? I dont see a lot of people would even try to compete anymore.
The only thing motivates me to still bench nowdays from time to time is the curiosity of the recent architectures, because if I would do it for the boints It would be the worst challenging, worst rewarding online competition ever. If hwbot wants to be something more than an oc database, this must be changed.

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Thats indeed what is in the pipeline, points for everyone, no more cutoffs for scores outside the 70% margin of the nr 1 score. But again that's 2021 biss, now we need to make the site more secure, stable and with an up to date benchmark list before we go into 2021.

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On 11/14/2020 at 5:56 PM, Achill3uS said:

My 5 cent.

First day after release in house results were always strong and yes it can destroy the spirit of an average Joe even to try to compete. But it is not the issue or to blame the 1st places. I see no competition in the runner up category where it was enoromus presence in the past. Nowdays it can easily happen that between Allen's WR and a watercooled daily rig's result its like 3 to 5 entry uploaded and even the half of it is subzero. That is even more killing the will to enter. I think one root cause is the pointing system.
Let's get the GPUPI for CPU - 1B as example, 6x global results. 1st place 181 pts, 5th position 69 pts and from the 8th position it worth 1 fuggin global.
Lets check 2nd example Cine R15, 6x global results. 1st place gets 161 pts, 10th position already just 61 pts. Its still too much points for the top results and too less for the runner up. Normally in top 10 its like at least 3 to 5 in house guys. What room left again for the average Joe? I dont see a lot of people would even try to compete anymore.
The only thing motivates me to still bench nowdays from time to time is the curiosity of the recent architectures, because if I would do it for the boints It would be the worst challenging, worst rewarding online competition ever. If hwbot wants to be something more than an oc database, this must be changed.

holy words man

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I remember back in the day must have been like 2008 or 2009 era trying to find the most obscure hw to vmod and put on chilled water to get my gold cup and 5 points even for no submission or 2-3 user categories. I really enjoyed that time. It was so pure. I hope to see us maybe get back to a mix of that and the new. Also some fresh new benches getting points would be great too. I'm confident in leeg and the new leadership will get this place back to greatness.

 

Thanks for the discussion men. 

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On 11/20/2020 at 3:13 AM, Splave said:

I remember back in the day must have been like 2008 or 2009 era trying to find the most obscure hw to vmod and put on chilled water to get my gold cup and 5 points even for no submission or 2-3 user categories. I really enjoyed that time. It was so pure. I hope to see us maybe get back to a mix of that and the new.

 

 

Indeed. 

I remember  EOCF when you were a noob. lol   :)

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1 hour ago, Leeghoofd said:

there must be some pictures somewhere in a dusty drawer Scotty

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I will tell you though, Allan is a true extremer. He went in full tilt without even thinking about it. He and about a half a dozen others wound up getting banned from EOCF for some bullshit reason and started their own extreme forum and bench team (OCA). Most are gone from HWB now but I still remain friends with all of them. They were awesome, and all good dudes. I miss them.

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