Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 23, 2022 Crew Share Posted November 23, 2022 Again on request of UL: Going to ask community to try to break it before we require it for anything, but now the information is there so we can start investigating whether this is a fix for the issue. so yes we are them guinea pigs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Since when two negatives are equal to one positive ? A deffective Nvidia design AND imposing ECC, is equal to normal operation. How nice. 99% of members use air or water to cool their cards. ALL will suffer the consequences. Keep it up folks. Hundreds have quit in the last 2 years. It is the 1% that is important and obviously in command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fox Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Man, I sure am glad I did not waste my money on a 4090 at this point. Between this and the melting cables nonsense, my avoidance of frivolous money handling (and being a cheapskate) turned out to be a wise move purely by accident. I guess this is what happens when a half-baked product is rushed to market without all of the kinks worked out. For the ludicrous price tag it carries it should have been a little bit closer to flawless. Hopefully, all of the other lesser GPUs (that cost less) from NVIDIA and AMD are not going to be unstable garbage without ECC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 23, 2022 Crew Share Posted November 23, 2022 We are testing things for UL if this is the way to go or not... so maybe this can be rolled back if they find another way to properly monitor what's going on... It's like Allen mentioned, you bench at xxx clocks score like spot 12, you up the memory by 30MHz and suddenly you are in top 3 amongst cards with 400MHz higher GPU clocks... Is that what one wants ? Other option is to limit memory clocks to eg 1500MHz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fox Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Things have seemingly gone downhill with UL over the past few years. Most of the new things they do with their bloated 3DMark "Swiss Army knife" benchmark suck. But, that is the case with a great deal of things in the realm of PC technology. Everything is becoming buggier, more dumbed-down and effed up. It might make sense to ban UL benchmarks like what was done with XTU. They need to get their act together, so maybe giving them a "vacation" from HWBOT relevance is a better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 23, 2022 Crew Share Posted November 23, 2022 So we bring back the putty cat ? I'll run some benches on the 3090TI tomorrow, other inputs are welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papusan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said: I'll run some benches on the 3090TI tomorrow, other inputs are welcome Also see if latest Systeminfo 5.55 in itself affect scores with or without the ECC enabled. Not unusual that Futuremark screw up own software. This is the common trend for both OS, drivers and software nowadays. Edit: I looking forward to coming 3DMark suite updates. Be prepared for some surprises (not in a good way)? Edited November 23, 2022 by Papusan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fox Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 33 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said: so yes we are them guinea pigs It seems so. 7 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said: So we bring back the putty cat ? I am not sure what that means. Futuremark's products were better before UL got involved and messed things up. But, we see that scenario play out with lots of things. Big company buys little company, then turn their gold into garbage... then eventually get rid of it because it wasn't their baby and became too much of a burden to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltycroissant Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 25 minutes ago, Fasttrack said: Since when two negatives are equal to one positive ? A deffective Nvidia design AND imposing ECC, is equal to normal operation. How nice. 99% of members use air or water to cool their cards. ALL will suffer the consequences. Keep it up folks. Hundreds have quit in the last 2 years. It is the 1% that is important and obviously in command. I don't think that having a card that require you to run a benchmark 30 time to get the best bugged score with that 10% boost is really Normal Operation. I fail to see how this is user friendly..... you'll have new ppl running their card, who won't be able to reach the score others have with the same clocks. Then when they ask why......just bug the memory and run that thing 30 times And for the 1%..... we'll thats just Splave being old and not looking on hwbot discord, this same issue was talked about the same week the 4090 was released and ppl where already asking to impose ECC to everyone. This is just ..... good/bad timing that he made the post close to when UL released their new system info with a fix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauf Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Some people seem to not understand what is going on... Many cards in the 40XX-generation can produce bugged rendering if overclocked too high. This affects all 3D-rendering in all benchmarks, all games etc. It's an issue for benchmarking because users don't play fair and submit bugged results knowingly. It's not limited to 3DMarks, same thing happens in Superposition, CatZilla etc. But UL are the ones trying to come up with a solution. This issue is not exclusive for nvidia either, we saw many wrong scores with AMD 6900-cards also. But it was not as wide spread as this issue. There are three options: 1. continue like we always have but have a ton of moderation work on hwbot and UL etc to manually check for bugged scores. Some will definitely slip through anyway. 2. give up benching this generation and hope next one in 2 years don't bug as easily. 3. Try to fix the problem because thanks to ECC option we have a way that might work and even the playing field... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Will be doing some testing tomorrow to double check the performance impact/penalty but at the moment it really surprises me that people act on ECC for not being a desktop/gaming feature while it is ok to have a half-rendered screen and like 50% more FPS in some instances after pushing the mems just 5-10 mhz. I saw that ecc has a small penalty when it comes to memory mhz but not sure on the performance. If the penalty is on the low end (like <1%) then this solution should be more than ok to keep everything fair/in check. Edited November 23, 2022 by FireKillerGR 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TASOS Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 A sidenote to all. Irrelevant but serious. Why are you "killing" an expertise forum , by posting exclucive info into a discord channel ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 24, 2022 Crew Share Posted November 24, 2022 There was no real exclusive info, just a heads up by some tier 1 OCers this could become problematic, similar to what happened with the AMD 69xx series We talked about a possible fix from HWBot side , but there was no secure alternative besides UL adjusting ECC detection or imposing maybe an algorithm checking clocks versus output... so we had to wait and do the moderating manually on our side and also by UL on the Hall of Fame... Also people move on, forums are less attractive, especially on a smartphone, Discord is a amazing alternative , quick & versatile... same with reviews, articles are hardly read anymore, people watch videos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 47 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said: There was no real exclusive info, just a heads up by some tier 1 OCers this could become problematic, similar to what happened with the AMD 69xx series We talked about a possible fix from HWBot side , but there was no secure alternative besides UL adjusting ECC detection or imposing maybe an algorithm checking clocks versus output... so we had to wait and do the moderating manually on our side and also by UL on the Hall of Fame... Also people move on, forums are less attractive, especially on a smartphone, Discord is a amazing alternative , quick & versatile... same with reviews, articles are hardly read anymore, people watch videos... I have tried many times to join discord channel. No success. I get that either I must be invited or register, but there is no option to register. Tasos hit a nail that is bothering me for quite some time. If forums slim down and move to discord, then slim down HWBOT and create an HWBOT PRO for only tier 1 overclockers. A group of 100 max members ( F1 drivers with their exclusive category ) - correct, needing correctly their paddocks, sponsors, advisors, space to function as they must and all the rest. The issue that arises, and became evident by this thread, is that not imaginable situations may arise for the "rest", and most probably unintentionally. So, there is a situation, where anything happening at the very top either never reaches the crowd or by coincidence only. This is plain wrong. We do not want to have the same priviledges of F1, but at least info should be widely available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 24, 2022 Crew Share Posted November 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Fasttrack said: I have tried many times to join discord channel. No success. I get that either I must be invited or register, but there is no option to register. If a 50 year old bloke can do it, so can anyone else... @TAGG @ground can you provide assistance plz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG-TAS Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 What about a bloke whos about to turn 60? I have access to Discord. The Older Gamers have closed their website forums and moved to Discord. If we can do it anyone can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG-TAS Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 So this ECC is only enforced during the benchmark, and won't interfere with everday/gaming settings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 24, 2022 Crew Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 hour ago, AG-TAS said: So this ECC is only enforced during the benchmark, and won't interfere with everday/gaming settings? You have to reboot... Though we probably will need to rethink this looking at the first numbers... UL got some work to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0ud_sil3nc3 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 On 11/22/2022 at 7:14 AM, Splave said: What's a discord Trash 9 hours ago, TASOS said: A sidenote to all. Irrelevant but serious. Why are you "killing" an expertise forum , by posting exclucive info into a discord channel ? It's for the zoomies 9 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Also people move on, forums are less attractive, especially on a smartphone, Discord is a amazing alternative , quick & versatile... same with reviews, articles are hardly read anymore, people watch videos... Discord is surely not amazing, and watching reviews by retard youtubers is even worse. I can't imagine all the nonsense people take as fact because it was regurgitated by their favorite youtuber ?♂️ 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted November 24, 2022 Crew Share Posted November 24, 2022 36 minutes ago, l0ud_sil3nc3 said: Trash It's for the zoomies Discord is surely not amazing, and watching reviews by retard youtubers is even worse. I can't imagine all the nonsense people take as fact because it was regurgitated by their favorite youtuber ?♂️ That's not what she said, boomer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted November 24, 2022 Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 Glad I started this thread. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papusan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, AG-TAS said: So this ECC is only enforced during the benchmark, and won't interfere with everday/gaming settings? ECC is disabled as default settings in NCP. Geforce is meant as gaming cards. Not a professional work station card. Edit: https://www.gpumag.com/nvidia-quadro-vs-geforce/ 3DMARK - SPEED WAY with ECC enabled... 6% performance penalty. You don't want that in games. Edited November 25, 2022 by Papusan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 Gaming cards yes, not benchmarking OC cards so I guess we are in a hybrid category When you are OCing memory +2000 mhz offset there is bound to be issues right? Why would NV leave that much on the table unless there was possible implications they already anticipated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Splave said: Gaming cards yes, not benchmarking OC cards so I guess we are in a hybrid category When you are OCing memory +2000 mhz offset there is bound to be issues right? Why would NV leave that much on the table unless there was possible implications they already anticipated. Why dont you ask Nvidia ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxinite Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) I don't understand what all the fuss is. All people have to do it select one setting when they start benchmarking, reboot, bench, change setting back if finished benching, reboot... There are plenty of other benches where you need to jump through more hoops to get a good score (or even a score). So? Edited November 25, 2022 by Noxinite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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