jmax_oc Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Stay cool and respectful please. The agreement rules often changed without news so it may quite hard to know them exactly (example for XP startup on PCMark 2005) Pofigist, by saying that, you are ok for blocking every incomplete scores on HWBot... Although moderators weren't agree on the same points. Some one said that that are a 'plus' which use in case of doubtful results on others said that they are 100% mandatory. No one write precisely if no subtest => score blocked or if no subtest => depends of scores and users... If the blocking decision depends of bench/score/rig/tweaks or else, nobody give us the common rule to consider a score blocked or not. It's not as easy as you want pofigist... That's why I insist on it. And that's why I'm asking my member to know what to do exactly : 1/ reporting all incomplete to make HWBot safe and fair 2/ take points in our ass without reporting any incomplete screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pofigist Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Jmax_OC, details of the test are important for manual recalculation of formulas. This is a kind of cheat protection. This is important, almost as well as validation. The more you show, the fewer questions. If you do not want to make out the screenshots - use ORBlinks. I hurried to the words, i sorry for that, but I continue to believe that the rules common to all in spite of the status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Jmax_OC, details of the test are important for manual recalculation of formulas. This is a kind of cheat protection. This is important, almost as well as validation. The more you show, the fewer questions. If you do not want to make out the screenshots - use ORBlinks. I hurried to the words, i sorry for that, but I continue to believe that the rules common to all in spite of the status. The problem here is that the rules are not aplied to every member/team - or if you prefer they are not applied the same way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax_oc Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I could understand that if thhere is a real doubt of a very good run, subtests are usefull to prevent cheating. I agree with it if the score is particularely good for the setup. However, like Anvil said (and be sute that it's not a friend), the blocked results were not particulary good for the setup... So I can understand to block some screens if they are good but I disagree to delete score for the only reason that they lack of subtests. That's why I ask HWBot crew to know exactly their decision concerning subtests. Is it 100% screenshots without subtests => blocked OR Is it doubtful screenshots without subtest => blocked. In the second case, I would like to know exactly what is a doubtful score for HWBot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax_oc Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 French guys are very nice but we are also sometimes 'narrow minded'. In fact it's impossible find any french guy who can accept that equality could be not respected. Same treatment/rule/punishment for all is the base of our education since birth. So, maybe we appears like 'strange' people but we are more likely fair people who want that rules be applied to everyone. Without any distinction. If you want, we can sum up the several results we are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pofigist Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Do you think that the results of your team specifically blocked one of the moderators? Understand me correctly, don't properly designed and posted outcome raises questions. Many similar results from one team, with errors in design cause problems and misunderstandings. I think that blocking is caused by this, and I do not think it's worth a look for other causes. I can not say that the results were obtained from same pc-components. I believe in fair play. ____ sorry my english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax_oc Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I'm sorry but I only understand the last line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 but there is no sharing ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax_oc Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Ah ok. Since we are no longer accused of hardware sharing, maybe it could be fair to treat all our scores like classical scores and not doubtful scores. Especially when they have nothing extraordinary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax_oc Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 quote me where I say this? Read me carefully too. I don't say you thought we shared hardware. I just said you we are no longer accused of it (we were accused of hardware sharing by some members - and also 2 members I appreciated a lot ) But that's not the main problem now. We just want to know why our scores blocked. If the only reason is lack of subtests => apply rule for everby body If the reasons are lack of subtests + doubtful scores => exmplain why they are doubtful For information, my members don't accept the current situation in which only some french guy lose more than 150 points hardly win only because we lack of subtests. If you wanna apply the rule, you have to apply it to everyone. Be sure that if the vote for this win, you will have a huge assistance for my members to track every incomplete screens (like we had after the bench party for the 2 years of the site). So we are all waiting why our scores have been blocked. PS : if you made a mistake mixing sharing presomption / lack of subtests and so on, there will be no problem if you admit it. No angry, nothing. You are humans like us and error is human, non ? Our error is only not to show subtests. Be sure that we will do this next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 quote me where I say this? I didn't say YOU, but without the "sharing" question, this topic wouldn't exist, that's what I meant ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mika Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 why this score are not moderated ? http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=839797 => there is not subtest ! maybe cuz benji got only 2.8 pts ........... zzzzzzzzzzzzz PS : nice english yeah i know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 and without one team posting similar scores with similar hardware the same day; without any background info. this thread would not exist either. is that a new rule lol? you need now background info to validate a score? lots of similar HW is a bit the sense of a Lan be serious ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax_oc Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Yea and without our lan, you won't blocked our results. But lan is a fact, lan is there, and lan give us more than 150 different scores. However, it's not the main subject (just the 'catalyst' like someone said. The problem is that HWBot declared some scores invalid because they lack subtests and be doubtful. So, I would like to know what is doubtful exactly. That's not more complicated : if our scores are blocked for a reason (good or bad), we want that similar scores from every team have the same. Of course, the best way is to be intellignent and to recognize that our scores aren't faked or bugged. Final list of the blocked score for 'bad' reasons is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Tshi Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 and without one team posting similar scores with similar hardware the same day; without any background info. this thread would not exist either. As my english is not so good, i'm not sure that i have understand everything, but be sure that i don't want to be agressive here. You're talking about similar hardware and similar scores ??? What could we say about top40 Vantage hwbot which is only 4870X2/GTX295 with i7 965 ?? What about top40 SPi 1M which is only Rampage Extreme and E8600 ?? We're all using the same hardware because we all know what's needed to score a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 So we are all waiting why our scores have been blocked. Scores have been being moderated for missing test details for some time, this is NOT a new policy. Again, you can post with an ORB link or a screen shot, the screen shot must have the same information available as the ORB link and that includes the individual test details as written in hwbot rules. When you search the ORB or hwbot and compare scores, what is the reason? Why do you do it? So you can assess the performance of your system against others - without the test details that comparison becomes almost meaningless. It is also nearly impossible to determine if the result is bugged or manipulated in some fashion. Being an experienced bencher I'm sure you understand this. It's best to move on and chalk this up to experience, hwbot will not be altering it's rules to disregard the test details now or in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax_oc Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Maxi, your word are very clear. But your words also say that you have to block all scores without subsets POINT. For any 3D/PCMark and for any setub, you say clearly that no subset = incomplete screen = score blocked. If HWBot is ok with it, why not. But you just imagine that you will have to block thousands scores. That's all I say. If you apply the rules strictly for us, then you have to apply the rule strictly for everyone. But don't worry, I think you will have a great support from JMax-Hardware to cancel thousands of scores although it's at the opposite at our wish. We started a vote on our site and if vote show that JMH want that the rule will be applicated to everyone, we will report each incomplete score with a strong organisation. It will be extremely boring for us and you but if it's your decision (no subtest => score blocked no exception), you will not make exception for it. We will never accepted to be moderated and others users (or some users) not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Tshi Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 We will never accepted to be moderated and others users (or some users) not... That's exactly the point of these last 12 pages, and i think some people can't understand it... Be sure i have a lot of time to spent scanning all hwbot results and report everyone which not follow the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_v3 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 somes are on school holiday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Tshi Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) some are unemployed Edited April 10, 2009 by Benji Tshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 some hate partiality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dami1stm Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I think you have trouble to understand our point of view. That the scores are not valid without subtests, we can fully understand ... But in this case, we ask that the rule is applied to everyone without exception whatsoever! If you made no exception for us (subtest détails), it should be no exception for other people, this is the justice. And you can be sure that we will make a pleasure to follow the rules to the letter, until it be ridiculous like is the situation for us now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 So, even though you find it rediculous to block a score because of missing subtest details, you will be reporting all scores because yours got blocked as well? //edit: don't start with justice ... we're not some kind of government or court of justice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mika Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 So, even though you find it rediculous to block a score because of missing subtest details, you will be reporting all scores because yours got blocked as well? O_O !!! Why not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_v3 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 ridiculous or not ridiculous, that's not the question. if you block our scores, why others will not be blocked? Come one ! it's because jmax-Hardware took a too large extent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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