Crew pro Posted September 16, 2013 Crew Share Posted September 16, 2013 hey guys dj if you dont mind i would prefer you to avoid using this device.. it looks highly likely its a bug with the driver or the way that pcmark inteprets the results the fusion io gives, i have a few of these in production at work but nothing i can use i dont think we need to put in a specific rule for this as its 99.99% chance its a fusion io related issue, dude i hope you didnt buy that for pcm05 or youll be disappointed right now lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhenzjhen Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I was expecting some nice explanation from you sir since you are the PCM05 god here. But telling me to avoid this 7k device just like that without further explanation makes me look like a dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sofos1990 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I think it's time for pc mark to stop getting points and replaced from another benchmark. Many scores that seems to be bugged and noone explains how he did it. Noone cares about pc mark anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I think it's time for pc mark to stop getting points and replaced from another benchmark. Many scores that seems to be bugged and noone explains how he did it. Noone cares about pc mark anymore. Well. I'd support that aswell. Hardware-Points are fine to me but globals should be removed. Reasons: - It's 99% about tweaks and not about real hardware performance -> this means the PCMark does not create comparable results and the ranking is nonsense - The moderators have big problems to remove the moderated submissions. At the moment only pro has enough knowledge to aproof a result. Of course he can't be online 24/7 checking PCM05 results so there are a lot of results which stay reported for weeks and I can understand that the reported user is complaining about that. - I'm completely sure that no other moderator will take the time to go deeper into PCMark. So whenever pro stops moderating those scores, we have to disable the points anyway. - Due to the complex rules almost nobody submits scores to PCMark anymore. There are a few left like dhenzjhen, mikecdm, SteveRo and Moose83 but that's about it. I know it's this discussion again but at some point it just doesn't make sense anymore to keep this benchmark alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted September 16, 2013 Crew Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) Hardware-Points are fine to me but globals should be removed. Reasons:- It's 99% about tweaks and not about real hardware performance -> this means the PCMark does not create comparable results and the ranking is nonsense This +999999999999999, still requiring 500MHz or more to get even close to some people... and still failing hard at text edit and other subtests It's a pity though for those that invested rough money in the storage department Edited September 16, 2013 by Leeghoofd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Yes I know that but the effort to keep this benchmark alive is just too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sofos1990 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) We are talking about a benchmark that includes 10+ tests. It's not like 05 or 3d marks. Every single test has tweaks and the equipment is used is expensive and of course the moderators are not obliged to have it. There are many many submissions that seems to have problem. First of all controllers span. Only Moose has done till now and at his last submission he didn't use it. Has anyone checked this? I'm not saying that he is using something illegal but it's the only guy. Also, I saw that some submissions of Mike are invalid according to FM. Again I'm not saying that he using cheats but why my links are OK? Back in days in another thread I think that you had decided to block the submissions with revodrives. Unfortunately submissions with revodrives are still up. Edited September 19, 2013 by sofos1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikecdm Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Also, I saw that some submissions of Mike are invalid according to FM. Again I'm not saying that he using cheats but why my links are OK? Back in days in another thread I think that you had decided to block the submissions with revodrives. Unfortunately submissions with revodrives are still up. Those have been brought to my attention and I've been trying to get hlep figuring out what is the issue. I uploaded scores from the same session that were few hundred points lower and were perfectly valid. I have only noticed it when running AMD. Here is FM response from a few days ago. I'm not sure if any further action has been taken from HWBOT staff or Fm. Okay, we've found that the PCMark05 time measurement detection is slightly too sensitive. The test is so long that it should use slightly a larger band of acceptable variance. Didn't crop up in our testing but now looking at the details carefully, it is often right on the edge. We're working on a fix and it should be pushed out in the coming days (the dev who did this bit is out of office until Friday so probably next week) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sofos1990 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Just to clear my position here. I'm not attacking you personally Mike. I know that everything is possible and of course if the system is pushed is reasonable something like that to happen. I just want to show to everyone that noone from the staff asked you how is that possible. Noone from the staff cares for pcmark so why this benchmark still gets points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 One can always remove globals, but not right away. I think the community should be warned a few months before that happens. As for the Fusion IO device, 10k sounds too high to my limited knowledge. Seems more likely a bug than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Don_Dan Posted September 16, 2013 Crew Share Posted September 16, 2013 I just want to show to everyone that noone from the staff asked you how is that possible. Noone from the staff cares for pcmark so why this benchmark still gets points? That's absolutely not true, a lot of the things you mentioned ( Moose's two raid cards, Mike's invalid FM links ) have been discussed internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Ok well... Genieben works on an wrapper, all discussed or unclear scores should be proofed when wrapper is finished;) Then we all see whats legit and whats not. Especially TW, Webpr and Virus Scan, i still see submissions which are outside rules. @Roman, Pro isnt an godfather and not the only one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 One can always remove globals, but not right away. I think the community should be warned a few months before that happens. As for the Fusion IO device, 10k sounds too high to my limited knowledge. Seems more likely a bug than not. Yep. I'm just saying we have to think about the case that we have nobody anymore to moderate those results. Of course with a time frame of e.g. 4 months or something like that. Ok well... Genieben works on an wrapper, all discussed or unclear scores should be proofed when wrapper is finished;)Then we all see whats legit and whats not. Especially TW, Webpr and Virus Scan, i still see submissions which are outside rules. @Roman, Pro isnt an godfather and not the only one... I also thought of a wrapper but the problem is, that the wrapper does not fix the issue here. The wrapper just approves the subtests and settings. But I'm also 100% sure that you can still use some illegal tweaks to push the score. And again then there will be nobody to approve or block those scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Genieben knows nearly all scripts and dirty stuff Roman, also the apps for this;) I can help there too Roman, i also know much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gappo Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I can help there too Roman, i also know much Never in a Billion Billion Billion Billion years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Turrican Posted September 16, 2013 Crew Share Posted September 16, 2013 prof. brian cox approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sofos1990 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 That's absolutely not true, a lot of the things you mentioned ( Moose's two raid cards, Mike's invalid FM links ) have been discussed internally. I know. I asked Roman about these things and I suppose he created a thread internal. Again you don't see my point. Even if a super wrapper will be made again someone would be able to use something out of limits. Will be there serious moderation or again the same situation like now? Cause if the moderation will be the same not even 100 wrappers will be enough to control everything and everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Well. I'd support that aswell. Hardware-Points are fine to me but globals should be removed. Reasons: - It's 99% about tweaks and not about real hardware performance -> this means the PCMark does not create comparable results and the ranking is nonsense - The moderators have big problems to remove the moderated submissions. At the moment only pro has enough knowledge to aproof a result. Of course he can't be online 24/7 checking PCM05 results so there are a lot of results which stay reported for weeks and I can understand that the reported user is complaining about that. - I'm completely sure that no other moderator will take the time to go deeper into PCMark. So whenever pro stops moderating those scores, we have to disable the points anyway. - Due to the complex rules almost nobody submits scores to PCMark anymore. There are a few left like dhenzjhen, mikecdm, SteveRo and Moose83 but that's about it. I know it's this discussion again but at some point it just doesn't make sense anymore to keep this benchmark alive. Finally.........the lightbulb is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM_Jarnis Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Also you might want to take into account the fact that by the time Windows XP is officially retired by Microsoft (XP being the target platform of PCMark05), it is likely that Futuremark will also stop supporting it. It is, after all, 8 year old benchmark already superseded by two more modern PCMarks (with third on the way). I believe Microsoft's official "XP game over" day is in spring 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmuckley Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Why not just get somebody decent to moderate it? And Forget about the online validation if FM no longer supports? Seriously;It's about the funnest bench ever. :banana: Nobody wants to suffer through 20 minutes of PCMark Vantage. Look at the participation on that bench versus Pcm05. Edited September 17, 2013 by Schmuckley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhenzjhen Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) This most likely what's gonna happen to my Fusion IO now or maybe mooseman will help me to slow down my VS? Edited September 17, 2013 by dhenzjhen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmuckley Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Well. I'd support that aswell. Hardware-Points are fine to me but globals should be removed. Reasons: - It's 99% about tweaks and not about real hardware performance -> this means the PCMark does not create comparable results and the ranking is nonsense - The moderators have big problems to remove the moderated submissions. At the moment only pro has enough knowledge to aproof a result. Of course he can't be online 24/7 checking PCM05 results so there are a lot of results which stay reported for weeks and I can understand that the reported user is complaining about that. - I'm completely sure that no other moderator will take the time to go deeper into PCMark. So whenever pro stops moderating those scores, we have to disable the points anyway. - Due to the complex rules almost nobody submits scores to PCMark anymore. There are a few left like dhenzjhen, mikecdm, SteveRo and Moose83 but that's about it. I know it's this discussion again but at some point it just doesn't make sense anymore to keep this benchmark alive. You forgot Mtech,Me,Chispy,TopDog,Gazza30...Crantana.. Here I am looking to get a better GPU and RAM for Pcm05.. So..Give Super-Duper lopsided boints for XTU and get rid of PCm05 points? "Oh btw..You just spent hundreds of dollars on a RAID card for nothing." Chispy JUST got one. Edited September 17, 2013 by Schmuckley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Genieben give us the wrapper, dont let this bench die:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sofos1990 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 All of us who still benching PCMark we have spent a lot of money on it. SSDs, 7970, RAID cards so it's not only one guy who will suffer if the benchmark will be removed from point list. It can be replaced with PCMark7 which also needs the same kind of setup like 05. PCMark05 will still exist but without global points so if someone wants to bench he will bench it but the moderation will be easier because most of the guys are hunting the global points. PCMark is not a common benchmark. It scales with frequency as well as with the tweaks you use. You also have to be very lucky to get a nice score on some categories. I tried on 3 sessions to get VS on 3x cores, I spent 5-6 hours totally to get it. If someone wants me to prove it I can't but that's it. It's pure luck! @Schmuckley, the question here is who wants to take this responsibility. The guy who will moderate won't bench PCMark05 again. Moreover he needs to have all this crazy expensive equipment to test our "creditbility". I also guess that some tweaks won't be told to him. Just an example...I don't believe that Moose will share his tweak/driver/whatever it is for spanning 2 controllers. @Moose, the way that Roman suggets won't let the benchmark die. If you want to bench you can, noone will stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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