Crew Sweet Posted October 23, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Sweet, RAID expert uses RAM for caching. Intel Matrix Storage manager can do the same thing. However with AMD RAIDXpert, there's a bug with changing sector size that makes pcmark05 wig out and scores go through the roof. I mentioned this in the pcmark05 tweaks thread, as a teammate of mine had found the glitch months previous, but never submitted it because the scores were out to lunch - he knew it wasn't right to submit, so no one on our team ever used the tweak. Once I mentioned it though, other people started looking into and using it, and Massman tested it as well. Moose's statement that RAIDXpert is the same as Areca cache isn't 100% accurate in my opinion. RAIDXpert's use of system cache, with tweaked raidxpert settings, absolutely crushes anything the Areca RAM cache is possible of scoring... So basically, with 2x cheap RAID0 SSDs and the right RAIDXpert settings, you can trash a $5000 Areca 5x RAID0 storage setup. It's coo-coo. You can change sector size on the areca's as well, and you don't get the crazy boost - its an exclusive feature/bug of raidxpert. I don't know why Massman stated it wasn't a bug. I think it seems clear things wig out when you change sector size in raid expert, no longer producing "realistic" storage performance. Thanks I.M.O.G I think like Pro in this point to allow the ramcache if we allow AMD raid eXpert But AMD raid eXpert is not the greatest of the problems, Text edit, audio compress and others tweaks illegal (called by me and many guys "Cheats" ), are the real problem. Btw. In the past I use Intel Matrix Storage manager Edited October 23, 2012 by Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanCutress Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Are you sure about this comments ?, You have exceeded your writing I only do what is agreed in the staff, Why you know this or write this stuff ? Why you accuse me of taking alone the decisions ? I am just saying it sounds like this. I am surprised that the staff did not choose to put Pro or Genie to head this. It is a very complex issue and a lot of the OP in the thread was regurgitation of rules that haven't been updated for the little exclusions since, rather than something concrete with a simple yes/no system. In this point why not use ramcache in Intel Chips ? As IMOG says. RAIDXpert also does something odd that gives better scores than RAM. But it had been approved my Massman before this thread was started, and this thread is all about the new tweaks being allowed/disallowed. It was odd to me that you had never heard of it if you had been put as head for PCMark. Also do not forget the situation with AMD and Tessellation, which is a little more subtle. It's been allowed on AMD because it is freely changeable in the drivers (and sort of easy to spot). This means that NVIDIA cards have to work harder to get the same scores. I'm all for global consensus with benchmarking, or a clear defined list of yes/no. Just as long as it is clear PS It's almost 4am. I'll leave until I wake up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 23, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I am just saying it sounds like this. I am surprised that the staff did not choose to put Pro or Genie to head this You are wrong in this point, I belong to moderation staff since 2010 september, and my nick is a cheat too. (I have much character and personality) Pro is a judge, like Knopflerbruce said in previous post., youngpro is what we tell everyone its a tweak is illegal or not. the rest of us are moderators result in this benchmark and the rest benchmarks I got to work, because surely had more free time than other moderators, any of the staff can do what I've done, I do not think I should explain why and who does it, as it is a desicion staff, and it had to be done. For you, i'm a bad person, for others i'm a good person, but always honest all the time, nobody ever dared to tell me otherwise, and I'm overclocker (sometimes good, Sometimes bad) since 2007 in HWBOT November of this year is my first submission. I think that since I registered in HW only have blocked me only two subs. (Jmke) in the first year, my fault of course When MFT software was not allowed in PcMark, There was discussion as well, and I had already a sub with this, I delete myself without any fuss As many know I am not a boy, not even a teenager, I am old, the oldest of HW and maybe the old bencher in the world, or i'm wrong ? By the way, Pro has confirmed that the tweak text edit is illegal , some days ago Edited October 23, 2012 by Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) AMD RAID EXPERT Tool is bugged, but it was allowed by hwbot testing. Im still against this...only pcm05 show an huge score. I see you beginn to block scores, but in global rankings nearly every score is still in: ( Demac, mtech, i and some gluvo where deleted by semself, why still all topdog scores in??? Also VapoR scores? Edited October 23, 2012 by Moose83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 23, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 23, 2012 AMD RAID EXPERT Tool is bugged, but it was allowed by hwbot testing. Im still against this...only pcm05 show an huge score.I see you beginn to block scores, but in global rankings nearly every score is still in: ( Demac, mtech, i and some gluvo where deleted by semself, why still all topdog scores in??? Also VapoR scores? Only the last 72 Hrs., the rest with help the others moderators, thats a hard work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamunsa Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 with this thread being titled 'clarification in PCMark' i have to say that to date there is little clarification on what tweaks/cheats are permitted and which are not. i've thoroughly enjoyed playing with pc05 for quite some time but due to not knowing what is legit or not i have refrained from making any pc05 subs of value, (outside of one a few weeks ago testing while testing raid cards). with a good proportion of tips listed in Christian Ney's PCMark05 tweaking thread can we just not take the op as a start point and put a green/red mark against each as a means of highlighting tweak vs cheat. sweet, i hope that you have not been offended by borandi's post because he highlights a number of very valid points. i hold all admins in high regard and am greatful for all the time and effort thats put in modorating the bot. i do see the need however for an admin / mod who has a solid background in this benchmark to have more input in this thread. much is unclear atm other than replacing files for TE being ruled as cheating, (honestly i am stunned that this was ever considered kosha). for many pc05 is great fun and for those that have invested in kit to do things legit the last thing anyone wants to see is the benchmark getting scrubbed because we can't define what is clean and what is cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stivut Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Almoast everyone in top 10 pcmark05 used forbidden tweaks, like text edit and audio compression, and I see they are still in top 10. Why was my submisson banned, and they're not??? This is my submission: http://hwbot.org/submission/2316366 , and take a look at the submissions above mine!!! topdog used TE, CherV used audio compression tweak....just take a look! Without TE tweak, it's really hard to get a great score! I don't see new rules on HWBot! Edited October 23, 2012 by stivut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraRaptor Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Calm down. It takes some time to delete subs. And btw, your post says you were aware the things you use were forbidden but you've posted the result anyway? LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stivut Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) TE was NOT forbidden! Only audio compression! We will going back to 40xxx scores in pcmark05, and I agree! Only push HW should be aloud!!! I have scores much bigger, with TE and AC, but I didn't post them. Anyawy, the rules are very clear: http://hwbot.org/news/881_application_9_rules/ Edited October 23, 2012 by stivut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 You guys do realize pro TE tweak was completely different and was not a cheat like many people did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stivut Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 As I know, TE is still aloud. I didn't replace any files in the benchmark folder, my friend! I think you are only offset by don't knowing the TE tweak! If you can't proof I replaced files, keep your mouth shut! If you knew any about the TE tweak, you knew that is not about replacing files in the benchmark folder!!! Running scripts it's NOT forbidden, as I know!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 As I know, TE is still aloud. I didn't replace any files in the benchmark folder, my friend!I think you are only offset by don't knowing the TE tweak! If you can't proof I replaced files, keep your mouth shut! If you knew any about the TE tweak, you knew that is not about replacing files in the benchmark folder!!! Running scripts it's NOT forbidden, as I know!!! Well you will have to provide proof of your TE to admins and they will make the decision. Stop the hostility in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffline_85 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 uncle fester I think you need to calm down! The administration will decide what is cheat, and that is the truth. If you can not at the request of the administration to provide the materials led to a significant increase in the tests, it means that your result block. It is normal practice in all sources. No one in the administration will not be playing "cat and mouse." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Didnt read through all of this but I assume; -different Internet Explorer settings not allowed? -Bobs tweak allowed? If you ask me, the bob tweak seems like a glitch - there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that doing what he did should give a huge boost. However, I'm open for arguments - if someone can actually prove that it does in fact increase the efficiency without glitching the bench, go ahead. Changing options in IE is OK. I don't think there are any settings in that program that makes the WPR test bug out. Wow this thread exploded and I only missed 1 day. 1. Why would they not be allowed, they are system settings. Curious about CSS/Styles tho. 2. Bob's tweak is a Windows 'bug' and you can see the boost in other software. No reason to ban this imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cowgut Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Perfect time to pull this bench off the points list. Sad i know but it looks like the best way to end all this nonsence. So now you have to have your score gone over by a committy? really? Stick a fork in this one and blame no one but yourselves for it Whats legal? .....thats sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Stick a fork in this one and blame no one but yourselves for it While PCM05 is unique in its way, if we were to remove every bench because it's 'cheatable' then we would have nothing left to bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cowgut Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'm a 3d whore and if they had one you could rape with cheats that may be legal? or undetectable then i am all for getting rid it....it becomes the bench that promotes hacking. At the very least i would think about a temp removel till the hwbot can come up with a 10 point plan on rules clearly defined. If it would even come down to that trashing it would be better for everybody. Year after year after year this still goes on with pc05? I would figure the aces at this bench(i dont mean the guys who gathered up all the "tweaks"that they could)would feel the same way as to being sick of this bench being raped by every way posssible. If you take all points for pc05 away it MAY clean up the field abit. Just becuase i dont play this one does not mean i have not followed the field and trends of this one for a few years. Just in my opinion guys so dont hate me any more then you did already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just in my opinion guys so dont hate me any more then you did already. No one hates you, or shouldn't based on a honest opinion. 1) Stop all PC05 submissions until the wrapper is complete. You can't expect from people to do that, maybe by the time the wrapper is done they dont have the hardware anymore even tho they wanted to play it fair or w/o any tweaks. A warning after/before posting a score that let's the user know his submission is bound to be verified and validated because it wasn't run with the wrapper sounds more plausible. Relying on the wrapper too much will only drag the REAL FAIR scores down as it has to take cpu cycles away from benchmark to verify against forbidden tweaks. Yes, only VERIFY as I will let you do the whole test 10minutes only to inform you of invalid tweaks found. Scumbag Steve in action. The more nasty stuff you can come up with that takes place during the actual subtests, the lower the final scores of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 24h are no past since desiccion....why still all cheated scores on??? Guys, delete it by your own! All actually top 5 in each globals rankings are cheated, so pull tgis shit down quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 24h are no past since desiccion....why still all cheated scores on??? Guys, delete it by your own! All actually top 5 in each globals rankings are cheated, so pull tgis shit down quickly Well I guess not everybody is following the forums and every single posting. You can't expect everybody to take down the scores withing 5 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Then staff should do it, it was say 12pm you beginn delete scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'm not experienced enough to judge about PCMark2005. There are too many tweaks I don't know so I don't moderate PCM05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 As I know, TE is still aloud. I didn't replace any files in the benchmark folder, my friend!I think you are only offset by don't knowing the TE tweak! If you can't proof I replaced files, keep your mouth shut! If you knew any about the TE tweak, you knew that is not about replacing files in the benchmark folder!!! Running scripts it's NOT forbidden, as I know!!! Then read it again! Scripts are now forbitten, so say goodbye to TE in any form! You only can change settings/hack wordpad engine via script! You dont need to eyplain it! WebPR is same, replacement file or make CSS... same score;) Dont fool you had an legal way my friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtech Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Some scores cannot be removed by users - because they are marked as "Checked by moderator". Like this one for example: http://www.hwbot.org/submission/2310996_ So only moderator can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Some scores cannot be removed by users - because they are marked as "Checked by moderator".Like this one for example: http://www.hwbot.org/submission/2310996_ So only moderator can do that. deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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