rbuass Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Affected or not mate to be honest I don't really care. I bench all stuff I get in my hands and have some fun that's all that matters, because taking this things seriously will get you nowhere... :celebration: That's a perfect point of view. I completely agree. :celebration: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Do you think is right an overclocker get a "obscure" chip... that nobody has... and get 7 gold cups, 14 points for only run in stock? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gappo Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Wprime doesn't get WR points, perhaps we should consider that. Wprime 1024M makes sense as it'll still scale. The Wprime 32M hasn't been beaten since December 2010, so I'm not sure whether WR points for that one actually makes sense. Even if only for consistencies sake. Things might change People might actually go after it if WR points were there. Cinebench would be effected in the same way but much worse. How does XTU scale with crazy cores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 No idea, haven't tested any compatible server hardware yet. I don't even think server chipsets are supported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUST DeVinE Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 i think the whole thing was fine where it was, obscure hardware is available to all. no one made into a world wide comp or got anything because they benched some random CPU and mobo. the mainstream guys are still the ones in the lime light. this was just brought on by pointjealosy the same could be said that ill never have a pocket GPU whizz god that can solder some crazy card onto my titan so i can get 2000mhz core, ill never be able to compete with that and they are more rare then these obscure hardware chasers but reap the rewards of doing something that 99% of the community will never have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Nobody told is a fault to bench obscure hardware,...The fault is to give 14 points and 7 golden cups for it.... or even 60 points and Gold Global cup for competing alone... Further... still worst if the hardware was benched in stock frequencies. Huge flaw in your reasoning: what are the 2 points good for? NOTHING, unless you're fighting in the hardware master's league, and in that league dedication means alot. It's a league for the insane, who can stand spending hundreds of hours running benchmarks in rankings, and getting scores worth 1-2 points pr half-hour benchmark. In XOL you won't get ANYWHERE with those 20x2=40 points that count towards the total:) Top 500, perhaps? ...plus, there's very little skill involved in most of the popular categories as long as you have a decent hardware and proper cooling. Boot'n'run as well, nothing has changed - apart from adding vaseline and some toilet paper for insulation - not exactly "overclocking skill" in a normal sense. Not to mention the huge amount (10+ in many cases) of points you get, for "nothing", compared to the small amount of 2 you get for running unbenched HW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Yes. Ok So IMO the gold cups are worthless.... and also the points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 OkSo IMO the gold cups are worthless.... and also the points Weren't they always? They have no actual value. It's a game, not a job. Honestly, you're taking this far to serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 There has to be a way to judge the value of a result. Obviously it makes sense to judge by activity/competition. Or should we now start to judge by the "skill" it takes to buy the hardware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Weren't they always?They have no actual value. It's a game, not a job. Honestly, you're taking this far to serious. As in any sport, there are people who take it seriously and people who practice only for hobby or fun. Be in tennis, motorcycling, chess, ..., or even overclocking. Regardless of which mode, the rankings are usually for those who take the sport seriously ... For example, there are many tennis players who play for fun, health, or even social ... but the ranking in tennis, looking up seriously. There is not something I would like to impose, but only the way I see the things. Just like I know that for many overclockers, the ranking no matter ... in my case ... I wish it was different ... If I did not think this way, I might never have posted any score here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) Huge flaw in your reasoning: what are the 2 points good for? NOTHING, unless you're fighting in the hardware master's league, and in that league dedication means alot. It's a league for the insane, who can stand spending hundreds of hours running benchmarks in rankings, and getting scores worth 1-2 points pr half-hour benchmark. In XOL you won't get ANYWHERE with those 20x2=40 points that count towards the total:) Top 500, perhaps? ...plus, there's very little skill involved in most of the popular categories as long as you have a decent hardware and proper cooling. Boot'n'run as well, nothing has changed - apart from adding vaseline and some toilet paper for insulation - not exactly "overclocking skill" in a normal sense. Not to mention the huge amount (10+ in many cases) of points you get, for "nothing", compared to the small amount of 2 you get for running unbenched HW. It is not about hardware masters, xoc league or enthusiast. It is thought that points, cups and medals, should not be distributed without reason ... and points, cups and medals should be conquered by merit.... and not because the overclocker bought something that no one more have. So, to me... is a huge flaw to work this way. Edited July 6, 2013 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 cups and medals should be conquered by merit.... How do you judge the quality of a score when there might be nothing to compare it to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) How do you judge the quality of a score when there might be nothing to compare it to? You can not make a ranking for what does not exist...so, if it has no competitors enough, should not be awarded. It seems that some people wants to make me think that is worthy to compete alone and win. Edited July 6, 2013 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I dont get what you are trying to say. First you say also exotic stuff should be rewarded. Now you say there should not be anything is there is not enough competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 If there is no category, there are no results submitted to it, so there will not be enough results to be deserving of a category....so the circle goes around and around. I think I suggested a few years ago that a category should have a certain number of submissions before it is given silverware or points, I still would not mind that happening. (I have a number of 2-point #1 scores, I am not having ideas that do not affect me as well) But... that is an extension of the changes that have just been made, I think the changes are fine for now. Maybe one day, they will need tweaked again, but in my opinion, HWB are on the right path Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It is not about hardware masters, xoc league or enthusiast.It is thought that points, cups and medals, should not be distributed without reason ... and points, cups and medals should be conquered by merit.... and not because the overclocker bought something that no one more have. So, to me... is a huge flaw to work this way. "No reason" is subjective. As explained earlier, only the very top scores should be rewarded if you want to avoid points given to "no effort" subs. One can always argue that one shouldn't get points because one has better cooling (or better hardware) than someone else. You're probably the only one making a point of cups... I never bragged about my 3000 ones. It's a curiosity that I have so many, nothing more than that. If I'm first in a ranking, I should get the gold cup - it's the definition of a top spot that you're unbeaten, regardless of competition. Others can compete if they wish, but maybe they're terrified by my results. I don't know. It's all speculation. There's also no ranking that's based on silverware, so you don't get much recognition for these things - only people that give you thumbs up for for your dedication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It's easy to explain gold cups to outsiders "I have 1000 points" means fuck all to outsiders "I have 1000 gold medals RIGHT NOW" is understood by everyone over the age of 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 If there is no category, there are no results submitted to it, so there will not be enough results to be deserving of a category....so the circle goes around and around. I think I suggested a few years ago that a category should have a certain number of submissions before it is given silverware or points, I still would not mind that happening. (I have a number of 2-point #1 scores, I am not having ideas that do not affect me as well) But... that is an extension of the changes that have just been made, I think the changes are fine for now. Maybe one day, they will need tweaked again, but in my opinion, HWB are on the right path Thankfully, I don't think such a requirement will ever exist - for at least three reasons: we need a reason to buy and bench unbenched hardware. A few points and a set of cups... that's enough. A 2 point reward pr benchmark is already rather close to the "why bother spending time and money onm this"-limit. 2 points won't do much good alone, either, you need a couple of thousands before you start climbing the HW masters rankings Also, points are already rewarded - you cannot remove points for hardware that people already paid for and spent time benching, for an already really tiny reward already. I'm pretty sure alot of the HW masters would quit instantly simply because it would take disrespectfulness to a whole new level A possible third reason: why would new users bench... say their laptops when they get no reward? We'd lose page hits and members = not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I agree with you Which is weird, seeing as my "idea" is the opposite I think HWB comes down to people being (at least a little bit) competitive or not. I like to think that people interested in PC hardware are, generally, at least a little bit intelligent. Would someone want to overclock their obscure computer parts a tiny little bit against no competition and expect a reward for doing it? I mean... that is a VERY big generalisation and I know it, but still..... Sometimes I wonder if most people only care about overclocking their PC parts because they can see a score to beat. (ie... the category already exits and has entries) and I suppose a few are ok to have their obscure obscure hardware added to the database so they can get the gold medals and have their friends buy them a beer in the pub because "guys.... I took world records in overclocking today, buy me a pint" Off-topic: We ALL REALLY need to reduce the number of times "world record" is used on here. Off-off topic. I've been drinking. and I feel fucking brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Off-off topic. I've been drinking. and I feel bunnying brilliant Kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I dont get what you are trying to say. First you say also exotic stuff should be rewarded. Now you say there should not be anything is there is not enough competition? I did not said exotic stuff must be awarded... I mean that imo, only if there are enough number of competitors, shoud be awarded. I see no reason to give points and cups to people competing alone... or almost alone. I kept this point of view in all my posts. This includes multi cores servers competing almost alone... and getting 60 points To me, is non sense to award people only to click and compete alone... and lots even without to overlock the system. I dont know where did you see I said to award exotic hardware... p.s. very funny meme... ha ha ha ha ha ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 ahh alright now I got it Understood it wrong first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) Thankfully, I don't think such a requirement will ever exist - for at least three reasons: we need a reason to buy and bench unbenched hardware. A few points and a set of cups... that's enough. A 2 point reward pr benchmark is already rather close to the "why bother spending time and money onm this"-limit. 2 points won't do much good alone, either, you need a couple of thousands before you start climbing the HW masters rankings Also, points are already rewarded - you cannot remove points for hardware that people already paid for and spent time benching, for an already really tiny reward already. I'm pretty sure alot of the HW masters would quit instantly simply because it would take disrespectfulness to a whole new level A possible third reason: why would new users bench... say their laptops when they get no reward? We'd lose page hits and members = not good. What hwbot did with people in Pro League? Also you have lots of cups and points, but not the most of that from obscure hardware that nobody benched. Maybe if the rules works this way... you will keep as the first... But many others, never worked hard like you, and got lots of cups and points easy... Also, you are talking ever about "top" ranking... What about the guys that don"t have lots of hardware... and squeezed to the max their hardware to climb... be surpassed by guys with the most of obscure hardware... even benching without overclock with no one mhz more. Edited July 6, 2013 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 What hwbot did with people in Pro League?Also you have lots of cups and points, but not the most of that from obscure hardware that nobody benched. Maybe if the rules works this way... you will keep as the first... But many others, never worked hard like you, and got lots of cups and points easy... Also, you are talking ever about "top" ranking... What about the guys that don"t have lots of hardware... and squeezed to the max their hardware to climb... be surpassed by guys with the most of obscure hardware... even benching without overclock with no one mhz more. Check your profile. You still get both points and cups. I'm still 2nd in HW masters, and I've got a fair share of globals, too. The globals just don't count towards a ranking anymore. You've still got them, though. Top rankings are different, but in the end the problem is the same - the quality varies alot in the low competition rankings, which must be taken into consideration. There is also a very limited number of such rankings, and the points drop quite fast. Not everyone can be number one... we've already got some fights with servers overclocked 50%+ in wprime. If wprime and cinebench, and other benchmarks that scale properly with many threads (24 and above), get WR points, that will help a bit if the globals for such rankings get a huge drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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