R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

[Rasparthe]

No offense mate but this discussion SPECIFICALLY relates to Xtreme OC League and you clearly have not followed it, have no idea what the rules are, how the league operates, what the requirements are to keep it healthy and how it benefits HWBOT and wider community as a whole. I think you are out of your depth here and come across uninitiated and uninformed. I am not saying your opinion is not welcome and this is not some elitist club at all but please try to inform yourself a little better before expressing direct criticism of the league or its participants!

 

Well, then inform me. I think it would be incredibly interesting for everyone involved to hear exactly what the requirements are to keep HWBOT healthy. I personally think there are a good many systemic problems with HWBOT and many good reasons why it has trouble attracting new Pros (maybe Massman can answer when the last time an application was accepted to turn Pro, not forced by ES but application, again my ignorance showing). Those are also only my opinions, but I have a business background and can't help applying it to my hobby, its a professional hazard.

 

I don't think I would count my tirade as criticism since I do agree with your position. I just don't believe my opinion is so overriding that I won't listen to someone that's entire job is to grow HWBOT.

 

Hey man!

What about are you discuss here?

Since you have no the feeling of the main involved overclockers..., Don't you think you're talking about something that you are not feeling?

Please man... take your time... take beer and popcorn and don't get into subjects that you are not part.

Tks

 

On this you are totally correct. But I do care about HWBOT and I care if HWBOT moves so far in a direction that doesn't provide the kind of enviroment needed to foster new and upcoming talent. But I will take your advice and leave enough alone, since as they say, I don't have any skin in the game....

[rbuass]

Indeed, as in any sport, one will have to follow your way.

No one becomes to black belt, if was not white belt before.

Nobody becomes F1 pilot if you have not raced kart.

But both the white belt , and for the kart pilot, the inspirations are reaching the highest you can.

When I was a white belt, my inspiration was someday to become a black belt in martial art I practiced.

When I started to overclock, my inspiration was to see the crazy works from people like Shamino.

If a member comes here as legitim newcomer overclocker, which initially says not interested in the highest level, pro league and so on, for me (please, is just my opinion), it does not match the profile of the most overclocker that will bring growth to the community.

Even the overclockers that belong to enthusiast, shoud be better and understand the goal of the different overclocking levels, and try to climb and be better, regardless the category (Pro, XOC or enthusiast).

Of course.... each one have their own choice... the most never will touch LN2 and so on... but it not mean that the extreme level is less important (IMHO)

 

 

@ Hwbot think about it:

Since looks for don't have any way to change... think about it:

 

Nobody (almost) will have no 4 binned Titans...

Nobody (almost) will have no servers to Cinebench...

Nobody (almost) will have no binned AMD to memory Clock...

I believe that my members team are in same situation... and maybe 90% of the overclockers will have no chance (because blablablabla....differente level of sponsorship and blablabla)

 

So...

At least if the rules are made for many... limited to 1 videocard and 1 CPU... only usual benchmarks... usual CPU ... etc..

Edited March 12, 2013 by rbuass

[dinos22]

Rasparthe, please read the thread, it's all here.

 

Massman, don't play games with me please. I'm not going to take the bait and you know full well that XOC/HWBOT and OC in general has a great following in my region. Most of the guys don't know and don't care about nitty gritty rules of XOC and why should they, who cares. I am not against what you want to do, hell I was the first one to start talking about F1OC at HWBOT since its ending. All I've been saying all along is to make changes to simplify the league and make it easier for maximum amount of people to get along as well as find out where to place people who cannot participate in the pro cup. You must introduce a more gradual change and not alienate your own community.

 

I've already spoken about it already and so have others. I'll get behind it 100% on several levels (from community, team creation and sponsorship and manufacturer sponsorship level) to get it kick started if you make the changes such as making the pro cup seasonal, have a league for current XOC guys etc etc. Current format is not flexible, it is unpopular and I can't recommend it nor have the ability to motivate my team mates and broader community in my region who all share our opinion.

 

Work with your community and you can achieve any result you want.

Edited March 12, 2013 by dinos22
spelling

[Massman]

I'm not setting up any bait, I'm just wondering if you are not worried by those statements. I strongly believe that Team.AU and HWBOT has a great following in your region. But how many people describe TeamAU as part of the Pro OC League? And how many just look up to TeamAU because you are "extreme guys from Australia"? I did my homework, I went over a bunch of Australian forums and tried to find a single soul discussion your stance in the Pro OC League ... but I could find little to no references. Perhaps it was mentioned once every hundred posts but that's about it.

 

I can't help but be worried that people like Rasparthe and Mikecdm, who enjoy overclocking, actively participate in the hobby and understand the basics behind the leagues and HWBOT in general, are less than inspired by what you can accomplish with TeamAU. The sheer lack of enthusiasm of perhaps not-so-super-extreme overclockers for what the absolute top extreme guys are doing is a real problem as far as I'm concerned. If the environment you are active in, the Pro OC League, has so little impact on people that are interested and active right now, how on earth would it have any impact on people that are just interested but not yet active?

 

As for your help-to-kickstart remark: the Cup format is seasonal (new start every 3 months), flexible (hardware and benchmark change) and the XOC league is open to join for most of the people that moved to Pro OC (eg: Gunslinger, SoF, ...). It's not maybe not seasonal and flexible in the way you wanted it to be, from an organisational point of view there are soem concerns with your approach, but that doesn't mean it's something completely else. It's okay for you to dislike it, but to say it's not something it actually is, well, that's just incorrect. But, I'm glad to know what your requirements for kick-start support are now.

 

Did you see this thread, by the way? http://www.overclock.net/t/1307180/trend-in-hwbot-rankings-combining-team-members.

[dinos22]

It's not the same thing at all and I see no reason why it needs to be repeated all over again but just to reiterate, no it is not seasonal. You cannot have a full year competition without breaks and call it seasonal or we have a different way of looking at it. When i say seasonal i mean there are time breaks (month or two or 6 between stop and start of a new comp). For example, run a season of 3 months with one month break then another 3 month with a big finale at the end. This gives an opportunity to give people a bit of closure and also to build up on anticipation for new season start. Otherwise it will feel like one big groundhog day basically and you will see people burn out. I don't think it's a sustainable idea long term and I don't see how it will make a great deal of change anyway if you make it into a full time competition rather than something that F1OC was! I think the format was actually much better than what you proposed, one benchmark, one month, two team mates, balls to the wall benching and a season that last about 5-6 months. Sporting seasons in just about all codes are the same, you have a season and off season. Things change during offseason, new players come into the mix etc etc. New benchmarks and hardware changes, people can build up excitement a bit until the season kicks off and this creates good vibes. People pick teams and follow their progress with live updates, livestreams, live scoreboards which can be announced as soon as someone jumps on and signs on to bench and attack new scores etc etc. New challenge every month makes it more regular for people to keep an eye out on the comp and see what crazy thing people come up with. Big finale at the end of the season with some extra challenges or something that spices things up, deciding tied points also with special challenges for top 3 spots etc etc. Then off season kicks off and rumour-mill gets ripe while people still enjoy XOC league and freestyle type comps.....Seasonal you know!

 

There is no flexibility with your decision making. You have made up your mind and have not actually consulted anyone. What you have done is ask people for their opinion and then looked whether you can validate that opinion. If you cannot validate it you simply just say, we are going ahead with it anyway! That is not how you consult the community and there is no flexibility there whatsoever!

 

XOC league was killed and everyone is forced to join a new plan and clearly most of the community does not like it and doesnt want to join. A lot of people that have joined are also a bit reluctant and have expressed opinions they would prefer to have the XOC league. THere are plenty of people that are pure freestylers and attack platforms that come through and benchmarks that those platforms are excelling in like Japanese guys for example but many others, so what happens with those guys? Your answer is they can still bench for cups which is bunnyextraction because there is absolutely zero focus on them any more due to the fact there is no rankings so ordinary people are incapable of relating to that unless they go on a treasure hunt through HWBOT servers to dig up scores so they can see what's going on. All a bit too hard! These old guys will still bench because they love doing it and it's a hobby but it will fade out of limelight slowly into insignificance....

 

On OCAU side for example I've discussed this with several team captains who represent their community and they have personally at some point been expressing their disapproval of the new changes on HWBOT as well.

 

I have never discussed anything on HWBOT in such detail in the past and I feel a bit sick talking about this so much knowing you will not do anything about it because you have already expressed you are not flexible. This thing is pretty unpopular and I know you have a strange interest in clashing opinions and debates and you simply thrive in this frictional environment. By the way, the only list growing in that poll thread is people's opinion that current idea is pretty poor and it needs change. I find it a slap in the face when you say things like "we'll revisit this in 3 seasons time and then see how it went" etc

 

 

whats the deal with that thread you linked, I don't really understand other than seeing Rasp actually talking about this last year and being surprised again today that there were teams in XOC league? we made that team in anticipation of this pro league change!

 

I feel bad that MikeCDM and others don't have any local inspiration. I have made a lot of effort and resources to give back to the local community here alongside TeamAU and Gigabyte to get people into subzero, to get people to get involved in OC, to play with Liquid nitrogen, to establish the right conditions and contacts to be able to get accessible storage and prices. We will do this again this year and go around Australia and draw people out of community face to face and give them the opportunity to be TeamAU for the day, play with hardware like we do when we meet up, enjoy the rapport with peers and hopefully take away something and be great overclockers on their own right. We've already seen an emergence of new guys playing subzero thanks to these sort of workshops and all manner of involvement in local forums. Competitors have also started to copy some of the initiatives and while a bit annoying it is also pleasing to see them invest in one thing i am extremely passionate about and that is our extreme OC hobby. Maybe MikeCDM and others need to be those guys for their community and inspire new guys to get into it and find a new motivation and drive for themselves besides stating how bored they are with the way things are right now. I am in the community doing it and trying my best to get more guys into it and share this hobby. Hell one of the guys from these workshops ended up at MOA 2012 finals! HWBOT is the obvious stepping stone and glue that binds it all so everyone benefits. People look up to TeamAU because they are going out there and sharing what they know and not being uptight elitist pricks, loving the hobby and improving it at all times. A lot of TeamAU guys are alpha and beta testers and shitloads of ideas filter into product design you see with things like Gigabyte OC board range for example. A lot of people benefit indirectly from guys like that without even knowing it. I can write a book about how much we do for the community and why i feel it's important that HWBOT works with Pro OC guys like us to improve things....anyways I know everything I say is falling on deaf ears so I don't really hold any hope at all that there will be anything positive coming out of this when you start pitting people against Pro OC community who is voicing concerns.......

Edited March 12, 2013 by dinos22

[Mikecdm]

Since i've been used as an example, I'm wondering how this pro-cup is going to make once again be excited to see top results from the best in the world. IMO, it's basically just grouping the best guys into small teams. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or that I don't like it, but as of now, I see it as being the same thing with a slight twist. I check HWBOT everyday, along with other forums and keep track of whats going on for the most part. I see big scores, sometimes I look further into them and sometimes I don't. Over time one gets accustomed to seeing things and it's not as impressive as before. It's nothing against anyone, but I feel that the hardware makes it easy too. I see a lot of results where cards are run on stock cooling, but still take easy golds just because of a very fast cpu. Can someone really be impressed by that where it seems all they did was clock a proven cpu very high and thats it. On the other hand, some results take a lot of work and a lot of tweaking to get those results. A lot of trial and error goes into a score. Some of that hard work gets over shadowed by the hardware facilitating things.

 

Back to the topic, today I logged on and noticed an Overclockers Pro OC team. I thought it was pretty cool to see them in second place. Granted there aren't many other teams, but that chance that they might do well is inspiring. Imagine them coming in second place after this is all said and done. We've seen their names before, but I don't think i've seen them compete at that same level as vince or splave. I think if more teams got on board, it could have potential to spark more interest and make it exciting. If we have superstar teams, it might be some of the same old stuff as before. But if the talent pool is mixed up and we have starts in several teams, that could make for an interesting competition.

 

All that it takes is for a few big names to join and then others might follow. As of now it looks like Vince tried to motivate some people, splave has been all for it and together with ney, they want to win. I'd like to see some of the other talented Pro's give them a run for their money. Posting big scores from the get go and having 2-3 months to beat them is a sure fire way to spark some nice competition.

[FireKillerGR]

First of all, relax. No need for personal attacks.

We are not here for this reason. Also you cannot judge overclockers if they cannot/haven't do/done scores every day.

It will not be accurate.

 

Anyway, wanna say the truth, which is that Pieter did NOT handle the communication correctly.

Based on post #416 I can understand that he knows it aswell; thats why he replied to phil this way.

 

Me Phil and Rsannino, we will create a team. Lets hope our hardware is at least enough.

[Yamunsa]

I'm not setting up any bait, I'm just wondering if you are not worried by those statements. I strongly believe that Team.AU and HWBOT has a great following in your region. But how many people describe TeamAU as part of the Pro OC League? And how many just look up to TeamAU because you are "extreme guys from Australia"? I did my homework, I went over a bunch of Australian forums and tried to find a single soul discussion your stance in the Pro OC League ... but I could find little to no references. Perhaps it was mentioned once every hundred posts but that's about it.

 

I can't help but be worried that people like Rasparthe and Mikecdm, who enjoy overclocking, actively participate in the hobby and understand the basics behind the leagues and HWBOT in general, are less than inspired by what you can accomplish with TeamAU. The sheer lack of enthusiasm of perhaps not-so-super-extreme overclockers for what the absolute top extreme guys are doing is a real problem as far as I'm concerned. If the environment you are active in, the Pro OC League, has so little impact on people that are interested and active right now, how on earth would it have any impact on people that are just interested but not yet active?

 

As for your help-to-kickstart remark: the Cup format is seasonal (new start every 3 months), flexible (hardware and benchmark change) and the XOC league is open to join for most of the people that moved to Pro OC (eg: Gunslinger, SoF, ...). It's not maybe not seasonal and flexible in the way you wanted it to be, from an organisational point of view there are soem concerns with your approach, but that doesn't mean it's something completely else. It's okay for you to dislike it, but to say it's not something it actually is, well, that's just incorrect. But, I'm glad to know what your requirements for kick-start support are now.

 

Did you see this thread, by the way? http://www.overclock.net/t/1307180/trend-in-hwbot-rankings-combining-team-members.

 

as a long time reader and now first time poster, (in this thread), i felt obligated to throw my 2 cents in after your last reply.

 

Unlike the link posted you will find little discussion on Team.AU's stance in Pro OC in an Australian forum because however active and vibrant it is the Australian OC community is it's rather small. Team.AU regularly put themselves out there in the community through a number of channels and are readily contactable / accessible and open to direct discussion. For example I could pick up the phone and within 10 mins I would be able to speak directly to any of the top 20 Australian benchers. Online notification on their activities is neither needed or expected.

 

We don't express all our thoughts on forums because more often than not we have had a chat in person or over the phone. As you will have seen, the majority of Team.AU online are threads, photos and discussions on meets and demos. However aloof online they have sometimes portrayed themselves in Australia they are measured like any other, by their actions.

 

In an effort to distance myself from a perceived fanboy stance seen above I'm quite happy to say that over the years Team.AU and I have not always seen eye to eye. I've regarded some at times to be real bunnies and have been very comfortable in saying so, publicly and online. No doubt they have also felt the same about me lol.

 

So, my perspective as to why Pro OC didn't have my readership.. Kingpin is the best example, (not meaning to single you out Vince with any malice). Kingpin's efforts are simply extraordinary. Seeing results like 2000 core clocks on a 680 with zombies hanging off, ln2 on the cpu, ram and gfx and more mods than you can shake a stick at is simply staggering... but sometimes I like to read FHM rather than full blown hardcore German anal porn.

 

Was the pro League impressive - sure but I'm more interested in what my team mates did on a drunken weekend with a pos E66, P45 and a bottle of rum. Does that make the pro's any less impressive - no.

 

imho Hwbot will never be as vibrant as it was in the 775 days. Overclocking was the thing at the time. It was fresh. It was just about affordable and was new. Most folks were in with a shot if they were hell bent on a WR. OS tweaking was pretty lack luster to many and subzero was cool as stink.

 

Appealing to new members and a young readership today is going to be a tough ask in almost any hobby. The youngsters I've had the 'privilege' to work with / employ, lose interest in most things within 5 minutes. Personally having no interest or care of being labeled #sadoldcunt (in my mid 30's). I think it's going to be an uphill struggle to get kids into OC'ing unless you can make a benchmark on who can twitter the fasted or turbo charge your home-made 3D printer.

 

I think we can all safely say that whatever the format of a Pro group we will likely see the same names and I doubt the format will make any noticeable difference.

 

Oddly enough on my home forum one of the most followed threads is the 3D11 benchmarking & submission. Recently our Hwbot team held a sponsored comp for folks to have a go a winning a top board benching this very benchmark thinking 'we'll get good readership doing this'. It bombed harder than a chocolate tea-pot. Asking around after the fact as to why, it was suggested that many didn't enter because they knew their score was going to get beaten, (even though it was a random winner picked from entrants). The 3D11 forum thread firmly follows Tess on. The belief is held that OS tweaking, Tess off and subzero cooling is flat out cheating. FFS I cried but I can't deny that gamers are a disproportionately larger group than benchers (please don't go down this route Hwbot).

 

On a side note I feel very sympathetic for benchers in the position of Rubass. Speaking for myself only, I recently received my first freebie from a manufacturer. It was a mediocre piece I was asked to review, (no doubt because someone with a more seasoned name couldn't be bother with such an average item). I couldn't have been more pleased and I believe it only happened because of my ranking in Australia in XOC. If, like the Pro League guys, my points were not ranked publicly I doubt I would have been given the opportunity.

 

@ Massman - if you had a read of OCAU you could have come across our little corner and would have seen my post on this thread when it was highlighted:

 

interesting reading. a bit like lets force usain bolt to throw discus because people have gone off trying to compete with him at the 100m.

 

it's just part of the maturation of a particular sport. obviously overclocking is still in it's infancy... the home computer has only been around since the early 80s. through intent, determination or by accident hwbot has found itself at the heart of this competitive sport and the masters over there are still finding their feet as much as the sport itself.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that for many who have posted here, Hwbot is the only competitive sport where they have made the world stage. As much could be said for the administrators of that sport. Bad choices are going to be made by both parties and only a compassionate approach by all will see it succeed to it's full potential.

 

If in 50 years Hwbot is still alive I have no doubt a professional sporting body would be here to govern. A team with a history in sport, online, sponsorship specialists and events management professionals will be at the helm. Until that day happens I think we need to understand that you cannot fix indecision. Even a bad choice can be rectified if all concerned are humble enough to address the obvious.

 

edit: had to edit in as dino posted whilst i was replying.

 

I went subzero so i could mix it with the big boys. I went PC05 to stick it to youngpro but the bugger pulled out before I was ready to post a score. One of my happy benching moments was beating SniperOZ in an open OC comp. The nice thing about having Team.AU over here and being so accessible is being able to have a crack at them because they are the elite in Australia even if they are not 'elitist'.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Yamunsa

[dinos22]

 

Oddly enough on my home forum one of the most followed threads is the 3D11 benchmarking & submission. Recently our Hwbot team held a sponsored comp for folks to have a go a winning a top board benching this very benchmark thinking 'we'll get good readership doing this'. It bombed harder than a chocolate tea-pot. Asking around after the fact as to why, it was suggested that many didn't enter because they knew their score was going to get beaten, (even though it was a random winner picked from entrants).

 

yet that thread still had around 6K views, some of the busier ones had up to 20K views and it was nothing other than people having fun benching and discussing their scores in the thread.....it might be a small community but there is nothing small about those threads even when they "bomb out"

 

 

hey yamunsa, talking on the phone is a hell of a lot easier than trying to figure shit out on forums isn't it? I tried calling massman a few times so he can put me out of my misery so i dont have to write bloody novels but havent had luck connecting LOL! im sure a lot of this would have been figured out in a couple of hours of a skype call with a whole bunch of groups rather than crapping on about it on forums like this. That is if there was a will to use community input!

Edited March 12, 2013 by dinos22

[hipro5]

.......As I put it to Vince (Kingpin) the other day, right after the announcement: "I'm putting my balls the railway track".

 

WHATTT!!!!..........Vince, WTF is this guy talking about?........."He puted it to you the other day and he felt that he had puted his balls on the railway track".......WHAT??....... Are you serius???.............Viiiinnnncceeeeeeeee................

 

 

Now, You are writing NOVELS in here guys!.......Bla - bla - bla - ........Things are SIMPLE............Start the new thiggie and LEAVE the Pro OC League TOO.........What whould be the problem with that?

 

OR (devil's eye):

Massman sees that the traffic of the hwbot is a bit down.

He thinks........

He thinks........

He comes up with a change/thread like that......

.......and.........

SUDDENLY......

BOOOOOMMMMM..........

Traffic on hwbot goes to heaven......

Massman "records" it......

......runing to companies showing the traffic of hwbot.......

He gets money for advertisement........ :banana::banana:

You filthy Mass!!!.........

[Massman]

It's not the same thing at all and I see no reason why it needs to be repeated all over again but just to reiterate, no it is not seasonal. You cannot have a full year competition without breaks and call it seasonal or we have a different way of looking at it. When i say seasonal i mean there are time breaks (month or two or 6 between stop and start of a new comp). For example, run a season of 3 months with one month break then another 3 month with a big finale at the end. This gives an opportunity to give people a bit of closure and also to build up on anticipation for new season start. Otherwise it will feel like one big groundhog day basically and you will see people burn out. I don't think it's a sustainable idea long term and I don't see how it will make a great deal of change anyway if you make it into a full time competition rather than something that F1OC was! I think the format was actually much better than what you proposed, one benchmark, one month, two team mates, balls to the wall benching and a season that last about 5-6 months. Sporting seasons in just about all codes are the same, you have a season and off season. Things change during offseason, new players come into the mix etc etc. New benchmarks and hardware changes, people can build up excitement a bit until the season kicks off and this creates good vibes. People pick teams and follow their progress with live updates, livestreams, live scoreboards which can be announced as soon as someone jumps on and signs on to bench and attack new scores etc etc. New challenge every month makes it more regular for people to keep an eye out on the comp and see what crazy thing people come up with. Big finale at the end of the season with some extra challenges or something that spices things up, deciding tied points also with special challenges for top 3 spots etc etc. Then off season kicks off and rumour-mill gets ripe while people still enjoy XOC league and freestyle type comps.....Seasonal you know!

 

- Having a one month break between Cups sounds like a good idea. Not just because, as you mentioned, of the time to re-arrange the teams and preventing burn-outs, but also because it will give wiggle room to fit the Cup into new hardware releases. Easy to implement.

 

- Bringing back the Pro OC League is not an option, for reasons I already mentioned.

 

- Freestyle comps will always be available at HWBOT.

 

- Running one benchmark per month makes it too easy for individuals to dominate the competition, though.

 

- Having a competition of 6-8 months is quite long and, over time, interest will be lost. The shorter the competition time, the faster you can see who won/lost and the faster you can redeem yourself. Also, it gives more opportunities for new people to step in.

 

- Live updates/scoreboards/feeds is a great idea, but never worked in practice (no one shows scores before the end of the comp). Requiring multiple submissions per stage will just increase the workload, something you've already said is impossible.

 

- Multiple eliminations (SF3D suggestion): possible, but increases the workload again.

[k|ngp|n]

First of all, relax. No need for personal attacks.

We are not here for this reason. Also you cannot judge overclockers if they cannot/haven't do/done scores every day.

It will not be accurate.

 

Anyway, wanna say the truth, which is that Pieter did NOT handle the communication correctly.

Based on post #416 I can understand that he knows it aswell; thats why he replied to phil this way.

 

Me Phil and Rsannino, we will create a team. Lets hope our hardware is at least enough.

 

That's the spirit..gratz. Just don't fill your gemini with water. It's an Ln2 pot not a water pistol.

 

Yamunsa: If you prefer lesser-than-extreme overclocking that's cool, to each his own eh? I gotta say tho that a lot of what I do now is with the help of the most talented VGA teams in the industry not limited to, but including TiNbo, and we always want nothing more than to push something as far as it can be pushed. For me, that is extreme overclocking, and nothing else counts as extreme overclocking. I learned this personally from my years benching with Shamino and this crazy old guy above me that only uses bold when he types.

 

George massman lives in TW now, so I see him occasionally. He was referring to a visit last week to discuss new PRO OC league. At first I didn't wanna join but after some talking, I changed my mind. He just expressed to me his commitment to wanna change things up.

Its a gutsy move yah, but the kid believes in what hes doing. I will give it a chance and like I said before old pro league was tired and imo becoming less relevant in overclocking/enthusiast scene in general.

for me, as long as new PRO OC league keep focus on more modern benchmarks that are relevant and useful with computer hw being sold and marketed in MODERN TIMES, I think it will succeed where the old league failed at creating interest among more mainstream enthusiasts. I'm willing to at least give it my best shot. The managing the team aspect could be quite fun too

[K404]

I'm gonna "reply" to a few posts in one go here... but without quoting the original because I don't feel like scrolling back 3 pages and finding the right post to quote

 

 

If ANYONE is told that their opinion is not welcome here, then that IS a problem. The point of the Pro cup is to being new people into OC.... outsiders. People who don't know much about OC or the community. These new people will post things. ANY sign of elitism will push them right back out.

 

RBuass said it. If a Pro OCer tells a non Pro OCer that their opinion is not welcome in a thread discussing the Pro OC, then the whole thing is bunnied. If the Pro OCers decide what the Pro League is and what it should have, it WILL become self-serving, self-indulgent and a very closed circle...... is anyone going to disagree?

 

 

Dino..... you mentioned people getting stale. I believe this is happening now. The Leagues had / have no start or end point. Nothing more demoralising than putting time effort and money into....what? I'm gonna pick my own situation here.... I understand it best I have some gold medals and some global points. I used to have more. Because there is no start or end point.... as soon as my points/ rankings drop.... who will remember them? How can I show to someone that I was ever "good" at this? Personally, I found that more demoralising than anything else. Having start and stop points and a permanent page showing the final leaderboard is a BRILLIANT idea.

 

 

 

Part of me is annoyed that Hipro has such big and demanding opinions despite not submitting results for so long (yea, I just said that) BUT I do not believe anyone should be told not to speak. Everyones opinion on the community is welcome..... maybe the most important ones are from people 100% outside HWB?

 

If OC is going to grow, we need to entertain people. People who have short attention spans. WE are at THEIR mercy. We can bend to what they want to see (is that selling out?) and catch some wider limelight or we can stay as a generally insular circle and things will probably shrink.

 

 

 

Oh... as for top scores. Personal opinion: I generally don't look at them. I'm competitive enough to want the scores, but the more I look at the MHz I don't have, the more money I will (want to) spend trying to improve them. I can't afford to do that. I'm inspired by scores I can relate to and/or achieve by pushing a little harder. Scores at 10-15% higher CPU speeds do nothing for me, because I know enough about benching to know what happened "behind the scenes" to get the hardware to get that score.

Edited March 12, 2013 by K404

[k|ngp|n]

If the Pro OCers decide what the Pro League is and what it should have, it WILL become self-serving, self-indulgent and a very closed circle...... is anyone going to disagree?

 

Dino..... you mentioned people getting stale. I believe this is happening now. The Leagues had / have no start or end point. Nothing more demoralising than putting time effort and money into....what? I'm gonna pick my own situation here.... I understand it best I have some gold medals and some global points. I used to have more. Because there is no start or end point.... as soon as my points/ rankings drop.... who will remember them? How can I show to someone that I was ever "good" at this? Personally, I found that more demoralising than anything else. Having start and stop points and a permanent page showing the final leaderboard is a BRILLIANT idea.

 

If OC is going to grow, we need to entertain people. People who have short attention spans. WE are at THEIR mercy. We can bend to what they want to see (is that selling out?) and catch some wider limelight or we can stay as a generally insular circle and things will probably shrink.

 

Good words..

[phil]

think Of It This Way - Would You Be More Interested In What Some Guy Does On Air Cooling Or What A Group Of People Who Have Skills And Experience Do When Given The Latest Hardware Do On Ln2?

 

Guys Like Dinos22,rubass,fester,phill And Even The Legendary Hipro5 And Kingpin Make This Place What It Is. Without The Old Guard You Cant Have The New Guys..right?

 

It Is With These Guys And There Knowledge That Makes This Place What Is It Is Imo.

 

Also How Many Of The 2000+ People On Hwbot Are Actually Contribute And Do Results? About 1/3 Maybe? (i Pulled That Figure From My Arse As I Dont Know The Correct Figure)

 

+1000

[Smoke]

Hello! I dont want join in Pro OC Cup, can i join in extreme overclocking league? I have enough money and I'm willing to give up any kind of support, but would not play your games.

 

PS. I will participate under Smoke nickname and without coop with slamms. Maybe slamms will join in Pro OC Cup

Edited March 12, 2013 by Smoke

[phil]

Also wanted to say about our team that I(and Roberto)would not join if HWBOT crew didn't admit their mistake about not taking seriously communitys oppinion.But with massmans reply to my earlier post,Firekiller tought that everything is ok and he can annoucence the creation of our team witch is true if Roberto agrees too(and I think he will).

I still don't beleave in this new project but I will try to follow and support HWBOT.After all is just for fun.

[rsannino]

Hello guys,

Sorry if I've been little exposed recently,but I do not have a good English!

I hope I make myself understood and again forgive my mistakes!

For me, little will change with the new teams. I just think you should do a step only. Only after you will delete the league PRO OC

Now I will create the new team only for not be excluded from a hobby I love. So I WAS FORCED to do so, it is not a my real choice.

Bye

Roberto

[hipro5]

Yes, maybe Pro OC cup goes well and ppl bench through teams for it.

I semi-aggree with this - time will show us (as always).

So, put me to XOC League too - I'm not sponsored.... Thanks and keep on...

[rbuass]

RBuass said it. If a Pro OCer tells a non Pro OCer that their opinion is not welcome in a thread discussing the Pro OC, then the whole thing is bunnied. If the Pro OCers decide what the Pro League is and what it should have, it WILL become self-serving, self-indulgent and a very closed circle...... is anyone going to disagree?

 

Please don't give distrorcion in my words to fit in your point of view.

I said ONLY THE INVOLVED have the feeling to had all their effort removed.

If I will talk by myself (and I know there are many more overlclockers in the same situation)...

I worked hard to climb and be well ranked... with m own resources... and I got...

So... one day... I opened HWBot page and I was no more there...

Then now, I was forced to join Pro Cup to be not in a "LIMBO LEAGUE".

I have 2 options.

1st- Do not join and go to the LIMBO

2nd- Join... and have no chances to do a good job and help my team members.

why???

Because I will no have chance to compete against 4 Titans... no chance to compete Cinebench... no chance to AMD (and I don't know to spend my resources that was limited to buy a "Lano")...

I think HWBOT said they discuss before to decide... but I can not believe they can be discussed and find this stages.

Worst... I think my team members will have same hardware than me... and we only can compete in a single card and spi.

There are lots of things I believe is wrong...

Now... don't talking about me,...

What emotion... if we know that EVERY competition, people keep the best scores to last moments.

Will be the Sandybag era...

We will no more see great scores.... until the last moments (hwbot though about it?).

3 months waiting.... so... suddenly the scores will be posted.

I just told... AT LEAST... since we were forced to join to be not in a LIMBO... to make the rules where more overclockers can participate with more chances....even more fair.

How many Pro Overclockers can have 4 Titans... and also... don't forget is good if is a binned Titans and Epower or canibalized full power videocards.

Basic...

Since not all overclockers there are in Pro Cup have full sponsorship...

Limit to 1 videocard

Limit to 1 CPU

Ah... and please... don't forget... we will miss lots of Vantage's, 3DMark06's and 3DXXXX scores that is not in Pro Cup.

So... I will be there... but because I was forced and no because I agreed.

Edited March 12, 2013 by rbuass

[K404]

Hey man!

What about are you discuss here?

Since you have no the feeling of the main involved overclockers..., Don't you think you're talking about something that you are not feeling?

Please man... take your time... take beer and popcorn and don't get into subjects that you are not part.

Tks

 

 

"Don't get into subjects that you are not part"

 

I distorted nothing.

 

I agree with your points about sandbagging, but it is not a new problem. I like the idea of elimination.... or bonus points for being in the lead for a period of time or something. SOMETHING to give participants the incentive to post new scores frequently.

 

I agree with your points about $ and binning..... but they are not new problems.

 

BUT.... in a 3 month competition- how many people will bin "unusual" parts and how many can they bin in that time.... for so little gain? I do not think it will be so bad If you buy a 4P AMD board.... you can sell it afterwards y'know "All" you have to do is not kill it. They OC like crap anyway.... what could go wrong?

 

 

Because I will no have chance to compete against 4 Titans... no chance to compete Cinebench... no chance to AMD (and I don't know to spend my resources that was limited to buy a "Lano")...

 

You couldn't compete against these in the old Pro League either and Titan carries the big WR points if paired with a good CPU.

 

You paint a very negative picture. The picture is MUCH brighter than you think People work hard every day and the hard work is undone by someone else. That is life.

Edited March 12, 2013 by K404

[GENiEBEN]

If a non-Pro that is supposed to enjoy watching this Cup can't express his feelings toward it then you totally missed the point of this change.

You can bet the F1 driver of the Mercedes can't really compete with the RBR on a level field but isn't that what makes sports nice to watch?

[rsannino]

So... I will be there... but because I was forced and no because I agreed.

[rbuass]

"Don't get into subjects that you are not part"

 

I distorted nothing.

 

I agree with your points about sandbagging, but it is not a new problem. I like the idea of elimination.... or bonus points for being in the lead for a period of time or something. SOMETHING to give participants the incentive to post new scores frequently.

 

I agree with your points about $ and binning..... but they are not new problems.

 

BUT.... in a 3 month competition- how many people will bin "unusual" parts and how many can they bin in that time.... for so little gain? I do not think it will be so bad If you buy a 4P AMD board.... you can sell it afterwards y'know "All" you have to do is not kill it. They OC like crap anyway.... what could go wrong?

 

 

 

You couldn't compete against these in the old Pro League either and Titan carries the big WR points if paired with a good CPU.

 

You paint a very negative picture. The picture is MUCH brighter than you think People work hard every day and the hard work is undone by someone else. That is life.

 

No... its different.

In Pro League before... even with 1 or maybe 2 videocards and a good CPU... you can compete and make a very good job.

And many many more important...

YOU CAN CHOOSE what you want to bench... with the hardware that was your choice.

Edited March 12, 2013 by rbuass

[Massman]

I agree with your points about sandbagging, but it is not a new problem. I like the idea of elimination.... or bonus points for being in the lead for a period of time or something. SOMETHING to give participants the incentive to post new scores frequently.

 

I like point incentive, but it might be complicated to express the information in a single page if we do it on a weekly basis (ie: get points for being #1 in a certain week). Alternatives:

 

- add point bounties for various in-comp achievements such as "holeshot", "longest lead", "world record".

- multiple eliminations, speeding up towards the end. Eg: elimination 1 month before end, two weeks before end, one week before end then every day until there are only three teams left for the last day

 

For the elimination, we could do it on stage-basis rather than overall basis. Instead of the last in the overall ranking being eliminated from the entire competition, eliminate the last from each stage. If you're eliminated from one stage, you might still have the option to compete in the others. Eliminate, in this case, would mean "can no longer submit", so you would keep the points earned in the stage.