Massman Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Who was #2 in the first cup and who is #2 in the current ranking (based on last three cups) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Yes, but we are old dogs.. not new people and we are not making it any more entertaining. We are just whining Answer the questions please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Well, it is quite simple. A new concept like this needs time to mature. The time in this case is minimum three/four Cups to see the effect on the Pro OC Ranking. My thinking with the Pro OC Cup is long-term, not short-term, so I don't make evaluations or conclusions after one week or even one edition of the Cup. Now you tell me, who is #2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 8, 2013 Crew Share Posted June 8, 2013 Who are you guys referring to when you say new blood? Like new new people for enthusiast league or do you mean new blood to the pro league as in people coming from oc league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) Now you tell me, who is #2? #2 is the team that could afford 4 Titans (just 2 teams could compete and afford with 4 Titans in 4way) and also could afford a monster obscure server CPU. I see no reason to be removed single VGA stage in this second round... and to me (please, is my opinion)... this is the more competitive and quality of overclocking in the CUP. Edited June 8, 2013 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoF Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Now you tell me, who is #2? Honestly...I could look it up maybe if I am forced to BUT(T): I don't have an idea without right of my memories or google or f(l)ucking f(l)uckbook I couldn't care less who was #1 #2 or #3 there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 #2 is the team that could afford 4 Titans (just 2 teams could compete and afford with 4 Titans in 4way) and also could afford a monster obscure server CPU.I see no reason to be removed single VGA stage in this second round... and to me (please, is my opinion)... this is the more competitive and quality of overclocking in the CUP. I know it is your opinion; you have repeated it about a thousand times now. As far as your analysis that single GPU is "more competitive", you do realize that there were a total of three people with Titan on LN2 in the previous Cup? Please explain how this is more competitive. Honestly, you could be a bit more respectful towards Gunslinger. He managed to beat KP for a while with the cards just on air. There was a choice to be made between single GPU Titan and a dual GPU mainstream. The choice is the dual GPU. The dual GPU should be easier for teams from like Indonesia that usually have less expensive hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 ...and yet the "monster obscure server"-setup wasn't really more expensive than the one Ronaldo uses for benching anyway. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) I know it is your opinion; you have repeated it about a thousand times now. As far as your analysis that single GPU is "more competitive", you do realize that there were a total of three people with Titan on LN2 in the previous Cup? Please explain how this is more competitive. Honestly, you could be a bit more respectful towards Gunslinger. He managed to beat KP for a while with the cards just on air. There was a choice to be made between single GPU Titan and a dual GPU mainstream. The choice is the dual GPU. The dual GPU should be easier for teams from like Indonesia that usually have less expensive hardware. Sure is more competitive... I have not even mentioned Gunslingernor anyone. There are many more overclockers that can compete single VGA than 4 Way... or you think is not? If only few guys hardmodded or zombiefied one Titan, is because the card is too expensive and there are risk to do it... and also need good soldering skill... So.. this become from the highest price from the Titan... change to 7970/680/780 and you will see people in.... but to remove single card is not the better way. @ Massman "He managed to beat KP for a while with the cards just on air." Massman... Nobody can "try" to be close KP with videocards in the air.... maybe in 3DMark06, where CPU is mandatory, but not FSE.... you know Edited June 9, 2013 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 ...and yet the "monster obscure server"-setup wasn't really more expensive than the one Ronaldo uses for benching anyway. *sigh* There are a BIG difference. Videocards like Titan or 7970.... CPUs like Sandy E or Ivy... are the usual overclocking tools... and can be used or can be selled if is needed. To gaming... to overclocking... Server CPUs is to professional use... and there are few chances to use or even to sell if is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanCutress Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Server CPUs is to professional use... and there are few chances to use or even to sell if is needed. Just like ES you mean, unless you have contacts or relationships with people who have access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 There are a BIG difference.Videocards like Titan or 7970.... CPUs like Sandy E or Ivy... are the usual overclocking tools... and can be used or can be selled if is needed. To gaming... to overclocking... Server CPUs is to professional use... and there are few chances to use or even to sell if is needed. Have you ever tried to sell a setup like that? No. There are many people who run distributed computing programs that love having that much CPU power. There is definately a market for such setups, and it's not unthinkable to imagine others could be interested as well - especially now that cinebench has global and world record points. Server CPUs are not for pro use only. Remember SR2? Very popular for Vantage and wPrime. That's a server setup, in the sense that it used server CPUs. Back in the AMD K8 days people bought server CPUs, Opterons, to get high overclocks for their 24/7 setups. The Xeon series for 775 was very popular, too - lots of people used Xeon 3060/3070 for example, instead of E6600/E6700. In the end, a server CPU can be used for whatever you like. If I could find a solution to the power draw issues I'm facing, I bet I could even use this for gaming:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Server CPUs are not for pro use only. Remember SR2? Very popular for Vantage and wPrime. Your concept is popular different from mine. I believe that SR2 has been the only server motherboard with support for overclocking, and my country was as rare as a white elephant. Must be why we see no results in the World League with SR3. Compare the popularity of desktop hardware with server hardware, nor should it be the reason of the topic, as I did not post here to make controversy, but to think that the hwbot conduct a more disputed Pro Cup. If I say that with single card, or with hardware more popular, as well as ask to more competitive rules have to be more competitive, I do because I believe will be good to, the league. I did not ask to be in the Pro Cup, but was forced to do, and don't want to back to this theme, so therefore, I believe that if HWBOT acts this way, putting us to fight together full sponsorship teams, would make the competition harder for them (for example, not allowing ES chips, or Full Out) and easier for those who have fewer opportunities and support. It is clear that my opinions are not welcome, and I'm also not here to annoy. Since I will not buy 4 cards, ... I will not have a 4770K ES because I have "no contacts" ... I like maximum scores as I have benched since long time with High End hardware (so will not compete in IGP and mainstream), I will no more borrow you in the forum, it remains for me to leave the Pro Cup Q3, and wish you all competitors, fun and good luck. I hope I am wrong and you right. Best wishes... Edited June 9, 2013 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Just a tip. Sr3 isnt that popular cause new xeon processors arent unlocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 And you can't buy it in all countries. I wanted one, them suckers won't sell me one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Your concept is popular different from mine.I believe that SR2 has been the only server motherboard with support for overclocking, and my country was as rare as a white elephant. Must be why we see no results in the World League with SR3. Compare the popularity of desktop hardware with server hardware, nor should it be the reason of the topic, as I did not post here to make controversy, but to think that the hwbot conduct a more disputed Pro Cup. If I say that with single card, or with hardware more popular, as well as ask to more competitive rules have to be more competitive, I do because I believe will be good to, the league. I did not ask to be in the Pro Cup, but was forced to do, and don't want to back to this theme, so therefore, I believe that if HWBOT acts this way, putting us to fight together full sponsorship teams, would make the competition harder for them (for example, not allowing ES chips, or Full Out) and easier for those who have fewer opportunities and support. It is clear that my opinions are not welcome, and I'm also not here to annoy. Since I will not buy 4 cards, ... I will not have a 4770K ES because I have "no contacts" ... I like maximum scores as I have benched since long time with High End hardware (so will not compete in IGP and mainstream), I will no more borrow you in the forum, it remains for me to leave the Pro Cup Q3, and wish you all competitors, fun and good luck. I hope I am wrong and you right. Best wishes... SR2 is the server board with the most overclocking oriented BIOS, for sure. Skulltrail would be a good #2 here. Asus L1N64 WS had two sockets and also decent options for overclocking in the BIOS, but was never popular because AMD was so far behind back then. Personally I don't mind if we focus more on "normal" rigs, but then the really high end GPUs and desktop CPUs should also be forbidden. Say, 4670k/3570k and GTX670/HD7950 as most high end parts allowed. There's no reason to allow $1000 parts if the goal is to make the competition financially accessible for everyone. Then we have to reduce the costs even more than what you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schenckel bros Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 SR2 is the server board with the most overclocking oriented BIOS, for sure. Skulltrail would be a good #2 here. Asus L1N64 WS had two sockets and also decent options for overclocking in the BIOS, but was never popular because AMD was so far behind back then. Personally I don't mind if we focus more on "normal" rigs, but then the really high end GPUs and desktop CPUs should also be forbidden. Say, 4670k/3570k and GTX670/HD7950 as most high end parts allowed. There's no reason to allow $1000 parts if the goal is to make the competition financially accessible for everyone. Then we have to reduce the costs even more than what you suggest. What rbuass means is that to be more competitive as global points hardware. Gtx 670 and Hd 7950 can not bring thr max score that is needed to Pro`s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 What rbuass means is that to be more competitive as global points hardware.Gtx 670 and Hd 7950 can not bring thr max score that is needed to Pro`s. Neither does a single GPU setup for a 3D benchmark, or a single CPU setup for a multithreaded CPU benchmark. You won't get any world records with those limitations, as they belong to the "out of reach"-platforms, like my 4P server and 4-way Titan rigs. The question is what the Pro Cup really is. Is it a place with no limits, which encourages people to try to beat the world records regardless of cost? Or is it made to rank the best overclockers against each other? Ronaldo's limits are neither. It's not possible to get any records, and it's still too expensive for most individuals. I tried to create one set of limitations for both cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schenckel bros Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Neither does a single GPU setup for a 3D benchmark, or a single CPU setup for a multithreaded CPU benchmark. You won't get any world records with those limitations, as they belong to the "out of reach"-platforms, like my 4P server and 4-way Titan rigs. The question is what the Pro Cup really is. Is it a place with no limits, which encourages people to try to beat the world records regardless of cost? Or is it made to rank the best overclockers against each other? Ronaldo's limits are neither. It's not possible to get any records, and it's still too expensive for most individuals. I tried to create one set of limitations for both cases. I think is different. With single card you will reach the max score and belong top scores with Global Records. Is the reason about Global Records single, 2 cards, 3 cards and 4 cards. One card is the max of the max, where overclocker need to extract the max. Two cards still good, because there are lots of competitors with Global, since there are cards with 2 chips, and it reforce the number of competitors. Three cards is almost empty, because has less value even to earn points. Four cards, regardless earn less points, it is balanced because there are WR points. I see no relationship to GTX670 and HD7950 to the max scores, instead, I see HD7970 and GTX680 (since Titan still for few overclockers, and also needs lots of skill to bench really hard). I understand rbuass point of view, and also believe 4 Titans is too heavy, but if 4 Titans is part of a stagem, don't mean do not have a single card stage. About servers, I think it was just fixed and there are no more server CPUs in Pro Cup Q3, what is correct IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgioprimo Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Pro must be without limit....like F1 . But in F1 driver are not gonna pay to buy cars. To be honest i really admire people like Nick, Andre and Vince that can play with those kind of hardware, and be payed to do that. besides that they have also the best mechanic to prepare their cars (shamino and tin....) that are payed by the sponsor as well, I would like to do the same, and in the past i spent so much money from my pocket, but to be honest at the moment I cannot spend 10000 euro or even more for each stage. Again pro cup should be without limitation, but in this way is frustrating because we all know that we'll have always the same winner ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perica_barii Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I am not competing in pro cup, but if you want to make it popular like F1 or similar, get few sponsor that will give hardware/money to their team, make list of Overclockers like ( NBA draft) so few sponsors can choose like pick on a draft from list and form the team ( same like NBA teams with their pick), after draft competition with sponsors involved. I think many of sponsors that sponsored hwbot will think about idea to have their own team, they can choose. It is just an idea how to make this all interesting. Also rewards on every cup is must, without it and also without sponsored hardware it will be just whining all the way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Yap, I agree with Giorgio and Dusan, it should be sponsored and without limits, but this won't happen. I am still waiting to see those magical 6.5-6.7 GHz retails Haswells... only 19 days for creating teams. Edited June 11, 2013 by Xtreme Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 Pro must be without limit....like F1 .But in F1 driver are not gonna pay to buy cars. The F1 organisation or FIA aren't paying for the cars either. I understand your opinion fully. I often see people who could be perfectly competing with those "fully" sponsored corporate overclockers, but strike out only because resources/time and so on. That's something really difficult to battle and I don't see it get any better in the future if marketing teams keep focussing on the short-term "world record" PR ideals. That hunt for "world-records" is what is driving a lot of the marketing departments, regardless of the impact it has on the community. We all know WR requires super-binned hardware and industry sources ... and only a few can have those . The first effect of the new Pro competition style can already be seen today. Do you remember the idea to make a buffer for new hardware launches to prevent pre-release hardware to dominate the Pro ranking (link)? With the Cup, this problem is solved. The scores from the past Cup are as valuable today as they were before the Haswell launch and the scores for Haswell will only be of value at the end of the current Cup. Too bad no one has caught onto this effect yet . Just like with anything in life, the change needs a bit of time to get traction. From what I gather of the meetings at Computex, the Cup is a lot easier to explain and understand by marketing (= "funding") teams. Most of them would like to join in on sponsorships for teams. It will be a matter of figuring out a good procedure to manage the sponsorships, which is something the "drivers" should figure out I think. I can help making the connections, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hmm it seems that GTX 780 doesn't support 4-Way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVizMan Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I am surprised to hear people suggest that F1 is without limits. F1 racing is most certainly very much limited and regulated. There are regulations as to what may and may not be done to a car, a chassis, an engine, the tyres, the total weight of the care and so on. In fact all motor sports are regulated. Here is a link to the Technical Regulations just to highlight what I mean. http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/ Now to take that F1 analogy to the next level when talking about benching and OC'ing one would have to ask why were those regulations brought into play? The answer is two fold. First safety, too fast and people would die. Yes regulators actively try to slow cars down. The second is economics when you break it down. TV audiences want to see competitive races, they do not want to see a boring procession to the finish line. This was the case a few years ago, numbers started to drop. The revenue generated by the TV rights are what drive the sport onwards, high viewer-ship numbers ensure that value is had by sponsors of the teams. In other words the F1 needed to be competitive to be viable. This they did. So they change the regulations each season. They add stuff, they limit stuff. The point being F1 is constantly evolving. OC and Benching needs to be constantly evolving too. So maybe there does need to be discussions about regulating the sport. Discussions like this are part of the evolution process and very interesting to read. I just wanted to debunk the notion that anything goes in F1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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