Wizerty Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 This is true GiorgioWhatever happens, the rules have been published before and if modified, will harm some competitors. +11000000 VGA *************** I make MOA only cause I already have a titan... It's clearly say : "titan allowed", so this point can't be modify, it's not fair, or someone have to refund me of 1300$... If titan are forbidden, I already spend lot of money, I can't buy an other 770, 780... I can't and I don't want. CPU ***************** "Class A Semi-Final Hardware Limitations: Any MSI "next generation Intel platform" motherboard Any MSI Single GPU graphics card (including GTX Titan)." SB-E, IVY, Sandy, 980x.... is not a "next generation Intel platform" so I suppose it's not allowed Look at for class B : Only use CPU in 3570K (or lower) Here it's "next generation Intel platform" not "next generation Intel platform (or lower)". Haswell is the only things allowed. Bench ***************** To be fair, I think we need : benchmark only CPU dependent -> SuperPi32 benchmark only VGA dependent -> 3dmark 2013 extrme benchmark VGA/CPU dependent -> ??? - SuperPi cause you need some skill, good memory, good CPU... - 3dmark 2013 extreme cause CPU don't impact score, so the one which have bining 300+ chip don't win the competition only cause he have better CPU For CPU/VGA, no idea, old bench are only CPU, news one are VGA... so probably vantage or 2011 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 4, 2013 Author Crew Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) few days ago Hi Cookie "cooked" 3 of them....I think that would be the same history on this 2nd round. I can easily imagine that I will kill at least 3 or 4 titans in Semi Final, if I can buy This is my only issue on the matter, Titans create an unstable situation for a competition. Im sure vince has cooked many too, it's like allowing rocket boosters on F1 racing, so many cars will crash and it will be a messy race. Some will finish real fast but you will leave many teams wounded. really sorry to the guys who already bought because you are all my friends, maybe we keep titan but get some 3Dmark01 in the mix Edited June 4, 2013 by Vivi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWeez Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Not allowing titan only benefits people who do not have access to titan. Most of the EMEA guys have titan because of AOOC that's why XA was going on an on about it before and wanting it included. Personally I vote no titan and the only reason is because there is no access to MSI Titan in Africa and no titan works in my favor. The cost and risk is what it is. take it or don't that is a risk you need to decide on. So in the EMEA side of MOA event most of the AOOC guys already have titans, they already have them modded and we all know what they can do. The risk is simply to large for the financial commitment to proceed. APAC and Americas are completely different situations especially Americas that region is just whack! as for the benchmarks 32m, FSx or 3d11x or 03/01 i dono happy if there is balance happy if there is not. Just do me best with a smile on my face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebanik Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 This is my only issue on the matter, Titans create an unstable situation for a competition. Im sure vince has cooked many too, it's like allowing rocket boosters on F1 racing, so many cars will crash and it will be a messy race. Some will finish real fast but you will leave many teams wounded. Great analogy, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgioprimo Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) What is going here, is what I supposed should have happened wen I saw the rules on day one.....And is the reason because I asked to make rules Crystal Clear about hardware and benchmark from day one. After a big discussion (which I didn't like.....because the competitors can just decide if join or not join. If they join, have to respect the rules......not discuss them) was decided to allow titan and new Intel plattform, but nothing was told about benchmark, and this is pretty bad because, again, rules MUST be stated from day one. Thay could be discussed to be improved before day one, but absolutly not during the competition. Discuss now the hardware after that it was stated is not fear and respectfull IMHO. About the benchmark say "allow titan but.....let's use 3dm01, 03, 05....with 50% Weight ....is like to say not use titan" The originale strutture of the point system MUST be respected IMHO. Is not about what I like or Vivi like, or Gunslinger like. Is about what was stated on day one. The originale strutture of point system was clear : 50% vga performance and new benchmark, 25% cpu and skill, 25% just cpu...... I personally don't like 32m, and cinebench . Firestrike estreme is so "wired". Maybe is possibile to swap firestrike extreme with 2011.....but still 50% Weight. 32m i don't like, but is not respectfull to change, so still there with 25% weight. The only one which could be swapped is cinebench IMHO, with 01 or 03, but still 25% weight . About top 9 Worldwide or top 3 regionally. I obviusly prefer top 9 Worldwide but on day one was stated top3 regionally, so, again, must be like that. And again to be clear: Rules could be discussed before that competiton starts, to try to malke them better and improved. Could even not be discussed, if the promoter of the competiton is absolutly sure about what he would like to do, but NEVER and NEVER should be discussed wen competition is already going on.... Edited June 4, 2013 by giorgioprimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizerty Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 So true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 4, 2013 Author Crew Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) What is going here, is what I supposed should have happened wen I saw the rules on day one.....And is the reason because I asked to make rules Crystal Clear about hardware and benchmark from day one.After a big discussion (which I didn't like.....because the competitors can just decide if join or not join. If they join, have to respect the rules......not discuss them) was decided to allow titan and new Intel plattform, but nothing was told about benchmark, and this is pretty bad because, again, rules MUST be stated from day one. Thay could be discussed to be improved before day one, but absolutly not during the competition. Discuss now the hardware after that it was stated is not fear and respectfull IMHO. About the benchmark say "allow titan but.....let's use 3dm01, 03, 05....with 50% Weight ....is like to say not use titan" The originale strutture of the point system MUST be respected IMHO. Is not about what I like or Vivi like, or Gunslinger like. Is about what was stated on day one. The originale strutture of point system was clear : 50% vga performance and new benchmark, 25% cpu and skill, 25% just cpu...... I personally don't like 32m, and cinebench . Firestrike estreme is so "wired". Maybe is possibile to swap firestrike extreme with 2011.....but still 50% Weight. 32m i don't like, but is not respectfull to change, so still there with 25% weight. The only one which could be swapped is cinebench IMHO, with 01 or 03, but still 25% weight . About top 9 Worldwide or top 3 regionally. I obviusly prefer top 9 Worldwide but on day one was stated top3 regionally, so, again, must be like that. And again to be clear: Rules could be discussed before that competiton starts, to try to malke them better and improved. Could even not be discussed, if the promoter of the competiton is absolutly sure about what he would like to do, but NEVER and NEVER should be discussed wen competition is already going on.... True man, i also don't like rule change. It's just really impossible to compete for some of us because titan is too crazy expensive. I feel bad for making this thread cause it will help 80% but made the other 20% like you and wizerty sad. So i would like a middle ground, like keep titan but not weight it 50%. The rules are set in stone, Titan is allowed, that i am fine with, but just make the weight little less titan dominated, like 25% cpu, 25% firestrike (titan), 50% 3dmark01 , which is 50% cpu 50% gpu, Titan or 580. but overall having a titan is better, but if you don't have one you can still have a chance. I will buy a titan if i must, but daaaaaaaamn Edited June 4, 2013 by Vivi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhow Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 MSI Master Overclocking Arena (MOA) 2013 Dea Sir I did not realize that i have submitted the wrong screenshot unit you highighted it to me.Please allow me to resubmit the correct scrennshot by the end of today as this painful lesson for me due to pure negligence from me.i will be grateful that you could give me a chance please.Thank you Thank you rayhow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There was time and place for changing rules, after some complaints new rules (for qualifier) were added. Changing HW during competition is forbidden in my opinion, cause some guys simply did some results to pass for 2nd round in order to fight for the ticket. When someone sees rules, he can adapt, make strategy. In my personal opinion, rules can be changed only in one situation - when all participants want it and it would make competition better (for instant - adding additional prizes) or doing like Ronaldo says one big Semi-final with 9 places (more easy to qualify I think, no restrictions like one user per country). About Titan - all Titans are accepted, but must use MSI XOC bios (with MSI in GPU-Z), which will be available before 2nd round. There is no restriction to MSI Titan, cause MSI only sells Titans in APAC region. About dying Titans - those who Epowered (or used some other custom VRM like 2900XT) know that those cards are not easy to die. Much more tough than lightnings. Only one condition - separate VRM. The problem in Titans is too weak VRM and that's all. If you want to use 780 GTX - it has the same VRM. I am not sure if non refs will be available for 2nd round, so there is the same problem. BTW GTX 780 + 100 MHz GPU = GTX Titan (talking on LN2, the same mem frequency). Moreover GTX 780 has lower amount of memories, so I am sure those can clock a bit higher. GPU is consuming less V and is running not that hot. I am sure that GTX 780 if properly modded, can catch Titan. Let's be honest, only Vince, Ronaldo, GB HQ and Aristidis were able to squeeze 1700+ form Titans. Most Titans with epowers ended 1600-1650 GPU. I am 100% that GTX 780 can match it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 4, 2013 Author Crew Share Posted June 4, 2013 There was time and place for changing rules, after some complaints new rules (for qualifier) were added. Changing HW during competition is forbidden in my opinion, cause some guys simply did some results to pass for 2nd round in order to fight for the ticket. When someone sees rules, he can adapt, make strategy. In my personal opinion, rules can be changed only in one situation - when all participants want it and it would make competition better (for instant - adding additional prizes) or doing like Ronaldo says one big Semi-final with 9 places (more easy to qualify I think, no restrictions like one user per country). About Titan - all Titans are accepted, but must use MSI XOC bios (with MSI in GPU-Z), which will be available before 2nd round. There is no restriction to MSI Titan, cause MSI only sells Titans in APAC region. About dying Titans - those who Epowered (or used some other custom VRM like 2900XT) know that those cards are not easy to die. Much more tough than lightnings. Only one condition - separate VRM. The problem in Titans is too weak VRM and that's all. If you want to use 780 GTX - it has the same VRM. I am not sure if non refs will be available for 2nd round, so there is the same problem. BTW GTX 780 + 100 MHz GPU = GTX Titan (talking on LN2, the same mem frequency). Moreover GTX 780 has lower amount of memories, so I am sure those can clock a bit higher. GPU is consuming less V and is running not that hot. I am sure that GTX 780 if properly modded, can catch Titan. Let's be honest, only Vince, Ronaldo, GB HQ and Aristidis were able to squeeze 1700+ form Titans. Most Titans with epowers ended 1600-1650 GPU. I am 100% that GTX 780 can match it. hmm you make some very valid points there, the 780 might make up for the 100mhz lost in faster memory clock, since we've seen how important memory clock is for these new benchmarks. Maybe 780 is a viable option, thanks XA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 hmm you make some very valid points there, the 780 might make up for the 100mhz lost in faster memory clock, since we've seen how important memory clock is for these new benchmarks. Maybe 780 is a viable option, thanks XA I think it's more like 275 GTX vs 285 GTX. The best 285 GTX were faster than 275 GTX, but most of 275 GTX clocked MUCH higher and could beat average 285 GTX. I am sure that 780 GTX will clock a bit higher, or more much more easy to get 1800 GPU, which will not beat the best Titan, but will be competitive overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 No Titan, 01 pi fast and Cpuz max CPU freq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 4, 2013 Author Crew Share Posted June 4, 2013 No Titan, 01 pi fast and Cpuz max CPU freq short and sweet benchies, i like! altho im scared of max freq cpu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlife Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I think no titan although its a bit unfair to to ban it after it has been said its allowed SuperPi, 03 and Unigine Heaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 5, 2013 Author Crew Share Posted June 5, 2013 I think no titan although its a bit unfair to to ban it after it has been said its allowed true true man, gathering benchmark data is what im doing mainly now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 no Titan,Super pi 32M,3dmark fs/fs extreme,r11.5/Wprime 32m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driftingforlife Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 No to Titan. Yes to 780 Lighting, it should be out by then Not sure bench wise. Super Pi 32m Wprime 32m FS/E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhow Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Welldone to everyone who passed the qualifier! I just want to run a quick survey before MSI decide on benchmarks in the hope to make the competition more competitive but with "less" cost. We all know how fun haswel is gonna be so we can make the 2nd round really interesting. It has opened up possibilities for world records in other 3D apps than Firestrike. I'm gonna keep this thread short just to bring my point across short and sweet. Titan is really impressive, but also expensive, i won't get sponsored one (like most of us) so it will be extremely painful financially to compete , and it might die at any moment during a bench as we've seen many pro's who know what they are doing kill these cards. See'ing as it is reference card anyway its more of a Nvidia competition than MSI. We can achieve same level of world records in other benchmarks too. 3Dmark 01 / 03 /05 / AM3 06 and few others will need the same amount of skill but will be much more affordable. We don't haaaave to run the latest 3Dmark. I do like firestrike and if the titan round must happen i won't mind, i would just like to know what you guys think! So who's up for titan yes or no, this thread is for good energy only im just testing the waters . Please say "yes " or "no" To titan, and suggest 3 benchmarks you would like to see. Gunslinger - no titan: 32M Superpi , Cinebench R11.5 , FireStrike E. Vivi - no titan: 32M Superpi, 3Dmark01 , DDR3 Highest freq gnidaol - no titan: 32M Superpi, Unigine heaven, Ice Storm Physix score joe90br - no titan: 32M Superpi, Unigine Heaven , Aquamark Lucky_n00b -no titan: 32M Superpi, 3DMark01 , Firestrike P/E 780(non-reference) Redmax - no titan: Wprime 1024, FireStrike, 3Dmark 06 thebanik - no titan: 32M Superpi, 3DMark01, Unigine heaven saint19 - no titan: 32M Superpi , 3DM01/03/06, Firestrike P Gyrock- no titan: 32M Superpi, 3Dmark01, Firestrike dRweEz - no titan: 32M Superpi, 3Dmark Firestrike/11 , 3Dmark 01/03 Splave.ROM -no titan: Pifast , Max CPU, 3DMark01 newlife - no titan: 32M Superpi, 3Dmark03 , unigine heaven hero - no titan: 32M Superpi ,3dmark fs/fs extreme, r11.5/Wprime 32m driftingforlife - no titan: 32M Superpi, 32M Wprime, Firestrike E rayhow - no Titan 32M Superpi, Firestrike E, Cinebench FtW - yes titan: 32M Superpi, valley / FireStrike E/P , Ice Storn Physix Wizerty - yes titan: 32M Superpi, Firestrike E, some CPU/GPU bench giorgioprimo - yes titan: 32M Superpi, 3DMark011, 3Dmark01 Mikecdm - yes titan: 32M Superpi, Firestrike E, Cinebench ASIA: Hazzan - dlnwj-oc - bob(nz) - Johnny.F - laoshu1919 - Carezza - thechickendance - Spyboy48 - JJJC - rayhow - EMEA: Perica_barii - ryba (PurePC.pl) - Don_Corleone - Matrix R&D - ivanov - [DRACO] - Smoke - nedernakker - delly - Bullshooter - topdog - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DRACO] Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Nice idea Vivi Titan is very expensive one, and die pretty fast. I prefer Super pi 32m, 3dmark05 or 3dmark06 and strike extreme fire Someone more preferred one bench? + 1 regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micka Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) Yes , we can use GTX titan! because I have bought a GTX TITAN only for MOA2013, Not allowed Titan？ I can not accept！Hope you can accept my suggestion. all test only can use haswell! 32M Super pi /New 3dmark fs or fse!/ wprime 1.55 32M or cinebench 11.5 I think use haswell to run cinebench11.5 is interesting Edited June 6, 2013 by Micka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 6, 2013 Author Crew Share Posted June 6, 2013 all test only can use haswell! good idea man, one platform would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 good idea man, one platform would be great! In rules I see that only haswell is allowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Vivi Posted June 6, 2013 Author Crew Share Posted June 6, 2013 In rules I see that only haswell is allowed whaaat, ooh you are right: Use any next generation msi mobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbassplayerxx Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Thanks for buying the Z77 MPower, now go buy the Z87 MPower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Thanks for buying the Z77 MPower, now go buy the Z87 MPower! Thanks, but no thanks. :nana::nana::nana::nana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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