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[SUGGESTION] HWBOT OC Pro League - Separating the seeded from the amateur


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Seriously?

 

62% of the votes in this thread say "yes, please make two leagues" and now that the suggestion is here all we get is replies against the idea.

 

In the end, this just looks like "oh, we just like to complain about everything" :P

 

 

 

Maybe even the end of the universe :eek:.

 

Please explain ...

 

How much of that 62% that voted yes are accountable for how much % of the actual results on HWB? :)

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How much of that 62% that voted yes are accountable for how much % of the actual results on HWB? :)

 

+1

 

How We are "sponsored" and get like one/two mb per month and if We are lucky one/two cpu for one week can take battle with guys who can get one mobo for one day ( if this is good day ) and 14 cpu's for one week ; two for one day is ok I think for pretest.

 

If We have some es cpu's than We are sponsored and We must go to Pro league. I think no, anyone can touch es cpu, and overlock it. It's not big problem at this days.

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A pro overclocker can be any of the above, as the document states that anyone can choose to be in the pro league. We do not choose who is pro(*) and who not. If you consider yourself pro, fine, but you will have to battle "the big guys" in order to be on top.

 

(*) we do recommend to be in the top 50 amateur league before switching to pro, otherwise any john do would be able to say he is pro.

 

 

 

This I don't understand.

 

Hwbot is separating into two leagues, yet you will not say who is or is not a "pro"

 

If someone like BenchZowner who gets more than I (we talked about it in the open on another forum) see's himself as an amateur, but most would put me in pro, how does that make it anymore fair for the "I get nothing members"

 

The guy in the post above this one, sounds like he gets a boat load more than most, a hell of alot more than me. Yet by reading his post I'm left with the idea he would put himself in the amateur league.

 

I have never had binned hardware sent to me, the only hardware that I receive at home is untested retail for review or the likes.

And have never received anything from AMD or Intel.

Yet reading all this, I (as most would) class myself as pro.

 

 

I get the feeling that some/lots of members think that there are lots of sponsored guys out there that get anything they ask for, for free. Be it ln2, cpu's (even binned ones) motherboards and gpu's. Hell they may even be being paid.

Which as the staff here would know, it's just not that case.

 

So unless you make it, anything free = pro

What will change, for the "I get nothing, it's not fair members" ?

What I can see is even more BS threads down the road as someone say X shouldn't be in the amateur league

 

By the by, In the way "sponsored" is used, do we even have 5 members that fit that bill ?

But there is a lot (ie: motherboards) that get them for "review" and then bench them hard out on the bot. I for one do just that. This is why I see myself as pro, even though I'll never get a free cpu from intel/AMD.

 

I can see and understand what you're trying to do, but unless the change stops all the BS over who gets what, whats the point, when many that voted are down the ranks and anyone that gets a motherboard for review looks sponsored to them.

Edited by Deanzo
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Good remark, Dean!

 

The split-up between amateur and pro rankings isn't 100% what people have asked for. It's not the separation between those who get the occasional freebie from those who get absolutely nothing. There's a simple reason for that: sponsorships come in all forms and all shapes + there's no way that we can check/verify this. Even if it's not getting a board from a vendor, you can have a deal with a local shop that allows you to test 20 980X and buy the best one. If there's no way to control it, there's no need for us to make rules that suggest we have control.

 

Mainly, the split-off is to remove the so-called marketing overclocking from the amateur scene. Mfc who have hardware access and want to use that acces to bin for world records do not really belong in a league where a household overclocker is competing as well. So, they should go in the pro league. But, in order to make this league somewhat interesting, we added another component to it with competitions and allow everyone else to join the competition if they want to. If Mfc agree to this concept, and fully support it, joining the PRO league could be good exposure if you get nice results.

 

I don't think we will ever be able to solve the problem of the whiners. I think the ES poll thread has proven that some of the whiners don't really have a valid point, but only want to complain for the sake of complaining. What we try, there's always room to complain about anything. Maybe the background color of hwbot will be offensive or so ...

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I have one more question I'd like to address to hwbot staff as far as the Pro League is concerned. Let's say that currently 5 top overclockers all join the Pro League, ok? I imagine that apart from the hardware they occasionaly get now, manufacturers are going to back them up with much more so that they crush WRs and inevitably advertise the components used.

 

Now, couple pages back Frederik stated that according to his point of view if someone isn't at least in the top50 of the amature league he won't manage to compete the big ones from the pro league. How are you going to arrange when someone leaves the pro league so that someone else from the amature league steps up? I suppose that manufacturers already have their favorite overclockers, but can one guarantee that they are going to back up someone else in the pro league, apart from their "favorites"? Will someone from the pros forced to leave the league if he came out last after a specific period of time? And moreover will the pro league be a "closed circle" in which ostensibly everybody has a chance but literally the manufacturers will have absolute control of?

 

In case someone thinks I'm complaining, no I'm not! In post #21 I clearly stated that I'm all in for the whole idea and I'm looking forward to seeing it take off sucessfully. I just happen to have some more questions regarding the pro league :)

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Good questions.

 

Initially, there's no relegation/promotion aspect planned. This means that whoever wants to join the Pro League can do so, and whoever wants to stay in the Amateur League can also do so. There's also no fixed # of participants in either leagues ... it's open for all.

 

We will, however, put a control mechanism on joining the Pro League. This means that you can apply to go in the OC Pro League and we have to verify the application. This is only to prevent newcomers, who haven't proven a thing, to join the league just so they can brag to their friends about is. Also, it's a good way to keep the standard of the League up.

 

Manufacturers have control over the samples they send out and the competition stages they set up (that is following our guidelines). They do not have any saying in who must or can not join the Pro League, although I can imagine that they'll ask some people to switch. There's no guarantee that you get ANY hardware if you join the pro league ... it's very likely that in the freestyle part of the competition only two/three people get acces (~ secret oc events we know). As for the competition aspect (which is as important as freestyle at this moment), there are no guarantees either ... but I can imagine that they will send out loads of hw to have the biggest chance of getting big results.

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I wanted to let you guys know I like the direction you are moving in, the consideration that is apparent with how you've planned, and the way you are aiming to move forward.

 

As for the feedback you receive, I support your confidence in doing what you believe is best for the community - regardless of who it pleases or who it upsets. At the end of the day, you are the people who have been running the most successful community based overclocking competition platform out there - you are the experts.

 

Here are a few thoughts I had posted previously, regarding some of the community concerns with the issues you are aiming to address:

 

Some people are identifying an issue with sponsored and pro overclockers, but really the general publics justification for singling anyone out points to items like *was* noted above... For example "Its not fair", "we can't compete", "I don't have fun toys".

 

Even if Massman and Richba5tard come up with a solution for a pro league for sponsored competitors... There really isn't any difference (for regular joe overclockers) between "sponsored" competitors and those with unlimited funds.

 

If the public convinces hwbot to boot the "pros" or "sponsoreds" to their own league, its going to be the "amateurs" with unlimited funds that everyone is whining about next. Then what?

 

This is why hwbot needs to be careful about who they are pleasing, and why they are pleasing them... Even if you please the right people, for the wrong reasons, after they "fix" things they'll just have another problem staring them in the face. The "its not fair" crowd is a fickle mistress, and you'd waste your time courting her...

 

I think its clear hwbot is making the right decisions for the right reasons, and as you move forward I think the outlined plan should be a big success - regardless of who is happy and who is upset. Overall, I think you are moving in a direction that is an improvement and overall the community will be positive about it. Thanks for the work you are doing on things!

Edited by I.M.O.G.
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I don't like this idea. I don't know English well so I understand not all in this topic, but it's really bad way(IMHO). Example: I have some score with ES cpus, them gave me my team captain or ukrainian sites. I try to find hardware for overclocking everywhere, where I can. Sometimes I buy them, but most expensive hardware in my profile, like i7 980x, GTX 480, Asus R3E, Enermax PSU, etc I didn't buy becouse have no money ( I have to remove my best score and go to amateur league or move to pro, didn't I? I want to be a pro, but I'm not. In my opinion, pro - means they people fully supported and they get some money. Overclocking for them is like a job. I hope you will understand me )

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I really have mixed opinions on this matter. I like the sound of having leagues, but we don't want to push manufacturer involvement away. The more involved manufacturers become the more they will be building hardware tailored to our wants and needs at the retail level.

 

The issue with ES hardware is a tough one, but at the same time, just because an ES might be topdog today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow. I personally have no problem with ES hardware so long as it is eventually released to the retail level with same specs. Once you start getting ES hardware that is never intended for retail market lineup, then you have an issue. Peeps taking golds with ES's is cool, so long as down the road the same spec'd hardware is available to everyone with the wallet to purchase it.

 

Then there's the NDA, hardware and software issue. Manufacturers sharing NDA IC info, modding hardware and software with some that others don't have access to. Gives an unfair advantage. I do what I can to share as much info across the web to benchers, but I can't post everything publicly w/o worrying about backing NDA or manufacturer trust. Last thing I want is to get sued over something silly or get the cold shoulder from a manufacturer, which has already started to happen. Not pointing any fingers, but I recently inquired about purchasing some 'juiced' hardware for modding from a manufacturer, got a couple responses, they seemed willing to help me out, then all of a sudden, quit replying.

 

So....there's a lot of stuff going on behind the senses that makes things unfair for others. Like I said, I have no problem with manufacturers getting involved, but the info shared should be accessible to everyone, not just a select few. The problem goes much farther then just hardware.

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Make the changes..the OC community will support them, and the manufacturers will be forced to follow suit.. far too long they have driven the wrong attitudes into the OC world.

 

*pro's are just that..there are "pro" classes in every sport on the planet. Only in OC'ing are you expected to compete against sponsored pro's in competition, regardless of your skill.. = :(

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The HWBOT OC Pro league is a suggested solution coming from the heart of the HWBOT staff. In its essence, it’s an attempt to solve the current problem with seeded overclockers taking on the household overclocker in the same ranking, be it in the Overclockers League, live or online overclocking competitions. It’s a first step in the direction of a clear and transparent split-up between the market and marketing. No doubt it’s not perfect, but it’s not meant to be.

What can i say,me as a household overclocker...I can only support this solution.Make it happen!

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What can i say,me as a household overclocker...I can only support this solution.Make it happen!

 

I also say make it happen.

 

True, there is no good way to classify one as either as a Pro or otherwise but this is clearly a step in the right direction. Making it voluntary to join the Pro league is a good thing and would entice those with the ability to score alot of points to join up with such a league. Guys who can score big points should get big rewards for their efforts since alot of them also paid the price to prove themselves as competent enough for sponsors to take notice in the first place. Those that aren't sponsored but still get the points should have an opportunity to prove themselves too and this is one way of doing it.

 

You wanna dance with the big boys?

Step up to the plate, go for it and good luck.

 

As for those of us forced to be grinders due to whatever circumstances they may be in, why make the hill so steep, they'll never truly climb it? That's one way to discourage newbies from even trying to compete and spoils the sport since it obviously needs new blood to continue and frankly, you gotta start somewhere right? Have to say most of these new guys will indeed be grinders at first so we need to encourage them to keep grinding away - Better things will follow in time if they don't quit.

 

We need to make this so most anyone who tries can have a sense of having a snowball's chance in Hell of accomplishing something in the first place, giving them incentive to keep trying. These newbies to the sport is where the future pros will come from and we need to encourage them to continue and not slam the door closed in their face or sites like this one will indeed die over time.

Guess you could call it an investment in the future of our sport...

Edited by Bones
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  • 4 months later...

How about a super noobs league for guys like me chugging along on just a laptop, or somebody with super old hardware, benching on stock cooling? The noob league should be such that all all scores count for something. Clearly regular guys cannot compete with the top people and perhaps something to encourage the conversion of enthusiasts to hwbotters can be attempted. I like to bench and help my team out, but cannot afford to buy new hardware. My exotic cooling strategy would be to open the windows...

 

The existing system does allow for checking your scores against those with similar CPUs/GPUs, but it is kind of disappointing to see 0.0 after a submission. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy just to see a submission go through as long as the team gets something. I neither have the skills nor the hardware to be on top of anything. ;)

Edited by Super Nade
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  • 2 months later...

^^^^+1

The awarding for popular hardware is a little bit overdone. A laughable 30th rank with a 7900GT, 8800GTX,... earned more points then a 1th rank with an cpu/gpu that is unpopular. I think this need more "fine tuning".

exactly my point..........

people who bench on low end hardware or not so popular hardware gets real low points! don't you think that's a bit unfair?

i mean the efforts are real....you got to spend the same amount of time and energy to find correct voltage and settings for your processor for that dream superpi run...regardless of the fact whether you are goin to run it on an SEMPRON 140 or an I7 950....maybe the Sempron needs a bit more energy and time:P

HWBOINTS are given in recognition for the effort...not the luck or money you have for getting the top end hardware......at-least i hope that was the main intention for the point system

just my two cents...flame me if you want

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  • 2 weeks later...

We definitely need two leagues, or maybe four. Why?

 

For noobs like me with AMD CPUs or not new hardware, is pretty frustrating compete against guys with an i7-980x using LN2 or even the same AMD CPU using phase change or LN2.

 

Intel and AMD leagues are necessary IMO, all we know that Intel is much better that AMD and in that way is pretty difficult beat an i5-2500k or i7-920 D0, even, if the other guy is a noob too.

 

I consider myself as a noob, so, +1 for different leagues in HWBot.

 

Some question comes to my mind:

 

1- I read the article, but I can't understand what means ES. [update]Nevermind, I read again and now is clear.

2- How determinate how is Pro and who isn't?

Edited by saint19
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