ObscureParadox_3XS Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Not sure if this is the right place to ask this and I am almost certain this has been asked before, but if a water chiller has been used does the user then have to move to thr OC league as their submissions are made using sub ambient cooling? Thanks for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraRaptor Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I think, if you can not go sub-zero with a chiller (like the Hailea ones), then it should be accepted for the Enthusiast League. It is simple water cooling, no insulation on the gear is necessary if you're aware of the dew point. If you ban these type of chillers, then you create an unfair situation between those members in very cold climates and those in sub- or tropical climates. If it would be on me, I would change the Enthusiast League criteria of "ambient" to "above 0C"... but let's see other opinions too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlife Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 From my understanding water chillers sub zero or not fall into water cooling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'm talking about these type of chillers: http://www.hailea.com/e-hailea/product1/hc-100a.htm You won't go sub-zero with them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheMadDutchDude Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I was under the impression that chillers fall under the water cooling category rather than subzero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If there is a compressor in the loop => considered as Extreme cooling (It's like a phase change unit /Single Stage) No compressor => water cooling (Enthusiast League). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Come on, Christian - based on that logic DICE and LN2 would be in the Enthusiast League... since they do not need a compressor... As I mentioned in the PM, the criteria can not be made/changed around sub-zero/above-zero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartMaul Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Not exactly Z. It's about the "source of cold", ambient or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Arne Saknussemm Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Crumbs how come something soooo simple hasn't been thought about...or if it has, how come some really simple decisions haven't been made. Someone benching at Vostock station in winter is considered ambient and enthusiast league but someone trying to get their tropical heat somewhat negated, yet still in plus figures, by a chiller is Xtreme OC and has to compete in the LN2 league!? Just set a temp! 4 degrees C water is at it's densest. 0 degrees it freezes....chose a temp and fix that as enthusiast boundary or we'll all have to move to Svalbard to bench enthusiast. 0+ Air/Water(No antifreeze) = Enthusiast 0- = Xtreme Do something sensible please I just realised I bench in summer with my air conditioning on... that has a compressor...are those Xtreme submissions? Edited March 24, 2014 by Arne Saknussemm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Not exactly Z.It's about the "source of cold", ambient or not. Yes, Dart, it is about of the source of cold - and that's what I'm saying that is wrong… I think, it would be a more objective criteria to go on the "result" of the cooling solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Think about how you're going to prove if the water is chilled or not. You can't. Therefore, water is water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Think about how you're going to prove if the water is chilled or not. You can't. Therefore, water is water. Exactly! If you go sub-zero you most likely will need to insulate your gear - so, that will be seen on the photos... Obviously, at very cold climates you can just simply place your gear outside and no need of insulation - but that will be seen on your location and whether conditions... Or just introduce an additional requirement: place a thermometer on your gear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 My vote go to disolvation of the enthusiast league, to much controverse. I will continue "clocking", no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartMaul Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Z, there are many factors making us unequal in this race. Some have just better clocking HW, some have colder weather. But in case of better HW is just about luck and this certain thing cannot be balanced by rules. For my submissions, every time I place my rig outside and benefit from winter's chill, I always show temps on my screenshots or just point at the actual ambient so everyone could know the actual conditions I was "abusing" to get my results. Also, I'm using some premixed EK coolant, so no glycol or some other non-freezing liquid. I do this because I respect the rules and do not want to fake anybody. But the thing is that in my case it isn't braking any rules. Also I'd like to notice the fact my submissions haven't ever got reported. But it's definitely unfair for guys who haven't ever seen the snow on their lawn. Without a doubt, cooling source is a proper divider for league rules, but as it was mentioned by Arne, air conditioning is also a cooling source. You can grab some ice from a fridge and make an open loop, or cool the coolant some other original way, but it's still H2O cooling. I'm not pointing at the right solution, but this certain question should be clarified, and I guess, should be sorted aiming at the balance between every user. Edited March 24, 2014 by DartMaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Exactly! If you go sub-zero you most likely will need to insulate your gear - so, that will be seen on the photos... Not really. I have pics in competitions here on water and you can't tell if it's on my chiller or not. Obviously, at very cold climates you can just simply place your gear outside and no need of insulation - but that will be seen on your location and whether conditions... Maybe. If an actual pic is used, and not just a stored one of the same hardware, or one taken in a different setting. Or just introduce an additional requirement: place a thermometer on your gear... LOL, ridiculous. There are so many ways around this. Point is, cheats will always find a way. Why make it so difficult to submit that it actually drives away participants because it's too much of a PITA to submit. Just forget trying to segregate by temp. It's not possible at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) My vote go to disolvation of the enthusiast league, to much controverse. I will continue "clocking", no problem. So what you're doing is acknowledging the fact that you know there's people taking advantage of loopholes in the enthusiast league rules? Lol, everybody knows that. Why punish the 95% of the enthusiast league that plays fair, for the 5% that don't. Edited March 24, 2014 by Mr.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 So then, Mr. Scott, do not segregate by temp but do segregate based on having a compressor or not - even if you know that the respective compressor won't go below sub-zero? Unfortunately cheaters exists - I can not do anything about that… For me all this benchmarking is for fun, it is my hobby, and as such it does not worth to manipulate pictures or thermometers… - I assume that it is the same way for everyone, or at least I want to believe so… My point is to allow water chillers which won't go below sub-zero for the Enthusiast League in order to compensate for geographical discrepancies (different weather conditions). That's all… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 So then, Mr. Scott, do not segregate by temp but do segregate based on having a compressor or not - even if you know that the respective compressor won't go below sub-zero? I'm saying it's impossible to segregate accurately at all. Chiller = water...period. Unfortunately cheaters exists - I can not do anything about that… For me all this benchmarking is for fun, it is my hobby, and as such it does not worth to manipulate pictures or thermometers… - I assume that it is the same way for everyone, or at least I want to believe so… We have the same values on benching. Unfortunately, some don't. We cannot control that. My point is to allow water chillers which won't go below sub-zero for the Enthusiast League in order to compensate for geographical discrepancies (different weather conditions). My point is it should be all or nothing as it's too hard to prove accurately, and we all know how the 'honor' system works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 By "all or nothing" you mean to allow chillers which can go below zero too? Hm... actually why not?! If we're looking to compensate for the cold climate... - then the criteria could be more about need of insulating the gear or not... DICE, SS, Cascade, LN2, Liquid He all need insulation - and they should belong to the OC and Pro Leagues... air and water of any temp could go to Enthusiast League.. Then it would be simple... do not need control of the temps - insulation, pots, water - blocks can be easily seen on the pictures... And where is suspicion about the actual cooling, mods could request a video... So, what are the thoughts about these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 By "all or nothing" you mean to allow chillers which can go below zero too? Hm... actually why not?! If we're looking to compensate for the cold climate... - then the criteria could be more about need of insulating the gear or not... DICE, SS, Cascade, LN2, Liquid He all need insulation - and they should belong to the OC and Pro Leagues... air and water of any temp could go to Enthusiast League.. Then it would be simple... do not need control of the temps - insulation, pots, water - blocks can be easily seen on the pictures... And where is suspicion about the actual cooling, mods could request a video... Exactly. :celebration: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Cool! At least we two have a consensus... now let's see about others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedhero Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Then people would only be restricted by dew point using a chiller with no insulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zka17 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yeah, but from the ambient to dew point they can get some nice headroom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmbot Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Come on, Christian - based on that logic DICE and LN2 would be in the Enthusiast League... since they do not need a compressor... You cannot be serious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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