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MattNo5ss

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Posts posted by MattNo5ss

    Sharing Signatures with Teammates? Other Old Sig Options?

    in HWBOT Development: bugs, features and suggestions

    Posted

    In Rev. 3 there was a check box to share your signature with teammates. I no longer see that option when creating a signature, is it not implemented in Rev. 4? Also, there used to be an option to show "Best OC" (and maybe other options?) which doesn't seem to be available anymore.

     

    However, it seems like the signatures that were created before Rev. 4 are still shared and use the features that are no longer available for newly created signatures.

     

    Am I just missing something? :rolleyes:

     

    [attach]1129[/attach]

    Dejo and Dejo's daughter accounts

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted

    Every day I have to face HWBOT/internet reality. Although I absolutely do not like myself asking for his daughter to not bench for points, something I think i've proven by given a dozen of alternative ways for Dejo and his daughter to bond over this hobby, I have to take into account that a large majority of the HWBOT community might not understand this particular situation. Not the daughter benching, but the team getting a boost in points by an account that can easily be perceived as 'double account to generate extra points'.

     

    Even if the majority of the HWBot community thought an account was a "double account to generate extra points" but that account wasn't a double account, then the "perceivers" should just have to deal with it because they are wrong...

     

    Actually, when Dejo ignored my PM and just created the account anyway, we closed our eyes for a while as the account was not really generating lots of points. When the first set of scores came in, we asked Dejo what's up, got a 'reasonable' explanation and, again, closed our eyes assuming this was just a one-time thing. Today, that account is generating 300+ points ... which is quite a lot.

     

    I don't know you or Dejo personally, so I don't know who's telling the truth about who wasn't responding to PMs in a timely manner.

     

    How many points an account has shouldn't make a difference, 0.1 or 1000 pts. If there are both 0.1 and 1000 point possible "double accounts", then both should be looked into and taken care of in the same way. It's about consistency in the actions taken. Like I said in my previous post, 300 points is nothing when using extreme cooling and can be had with a good CPU and some old "boint mine" GPUs.

     

    I might be out of line here, but I guess if the daughter's account would just have low-end hardware, none of which also in Dejo's account and reasonably low total score, it would've been under the radar for sure. Like I said, we closed eyes twice.

     

    Again, what hardware used and how many points an account has shouldn't make a difference. All questionable accounts should be looked at equally, and if they aren't, then the staff isn't doing their job correctly. Obviously, the daughter doesn't buy her own hardware, dejo buys it for her. Of course, he's going to get the best he can afford so she can get the best scores as possible.

     

    We undertook several more attempts to solve this matter quietly and another moderator than myself tried to explain the situation and give some suggestions to solve the issue. Not to 'be corrupt', but just so his daughter could enjoy all the benching and other community members would not be upset about this 'weird' account generating a significant amount of points for the team. We don't accuse anyone (if we did, the account would've been banned), we don't try to punish anyone, all we want to forsee problems in (hwbot's) reality and address them before they occur.

     

    Just because an account looks weird doesn't mean it's not legitimate. Every weird looking account needs to be looked into thoroughly so proof of its legitimacy or illegitimacy can be found. Then, action can be taken. It's easy to disallow an obviously "weird" account, but that doesn't mean it's what should be done and other not-as-obvious weird accounts should be ignored.

     

    I was staying out of this but I am a mod here, it's my job.

     

    OK, there are reasons to be concerned about the submissions and result sharing (not hardware sharing) namely the screens shots with items placed in basically the exact same positions. If you have two different people behind the keyboard, the chances of that happening are remote. There are several examples of this between the two accounts. It's true there is no rule preventing family members from creating accounts, friends & teams bench together sharing ideas and knowledge all the time ── hwbot is not against any of that, duh. But when you have results that look to be done on the same system by the same person (as the item placement pretty much confirms) there is a problem.

     

    It has been suggested that these two accounts be merged, I for one do not agree with that. Results in questions should be moderated and that is all. It could be argued that one of the accounts be banned for violating our result sharing rules, but hwbot chose to ask for an account merger instead.

     

    I agree the screens look very similar in the window placement. I don't like throwing "what-if's" out there, but what if dejo gave his daughter a sample screenie of his to use as a template when doing her benches?

     

    Even if dejo is taking the screenies himself, does that alone constitute him doing the benching? Does pressing the "run benchmark" button in 3DMark constitute doing the benching? Or, does raising the bclk from 133 to 207 constitute doing the benching?

     

    To get full proof of everything, the entire benching session would have to be filmed, so the above, and more, can be seen by everyone. This would have to be implemented for every account to ensure the legality of results, but of course, filming every single session to get every result on film in its entirety wouldn't be the best way to go about it. That's why HWBot uses screenshots for the scores, the rest is just based on trust.

     

    My point is that every little detail cannot be proven and trust needs to come into play at some point.

    Dejo and Dejo's daughter accounts

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted · Edited by MattNo5ss

    No ... it's not.

     

    Seriously, we are all fine with everything besides the two accounts generating points for the same team. And that for very simple, logic reasons.

     

    Pick any other combination of

     

    - allowed to bench: yes/no

    - have own account: yes/no

    - have points: yes/no

    - be in a team: yes/no

     

    Any other combination is just fine, no problem. Just the one that doesn't generate team points ...

     

    Why are those team points so important?

     

    The "very simple, logic reason" why both accounts should be able to generate points (if both parties want to) is b/c neither party broke any HWBot rules with their submissions.

     

    What would be the difference in Dejo + his 12yr old daughter -vs- me + my 22yr old brother -vs- 2 unrelated people living together -vs- 2 related people not living together? As long as the rules are followed, all submissions should be allowed for points if those people chose to submit for points.

     

    There cannot be a rule put in place that limits accounts per household or accounts per family, because that would prevent the growth of overclocking as a competitive sport. Which I believe is the point of HWBot in the first place. It's easiest to get people you are close to or even live with involved in something you like to do since they see you doing it all the time. Once those people get involved, they try to get people they are close to invovled, etc. That's how growth happens. Of course, growth can be had through forums' bench teams, but why limit the growth to the internet when the most fun benching happens when people do it together, in person?

     

    As mentioned before, the actual points lost aren't the major concern here, I mean it's only 300 which can be had with some cheap 8800 GPUs. The problem is that 2 people who aren't trying to hide anything, being open about what's going on, and submitting legal scores are being told to only submit for points with one account so it doesn't seem like cheating (even though they're not cheating). One party is having the option to submit for points taken away for doing everything openly and legally. So, it's having that option taken away that is bothersome, not having the points taken away.

     

    If they chose to not submit for points just b/c of what other people may think, then that's their decision. But, they should still have the option to submit for points if they so chose since they are doing nothing wrong.

    HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

    in HWBOT Rev.4

    Posted

    This is a valid point. One thing we were playing with (concept) was to have a similar split up for teams as we had for users where one team has both an Xtreme part and an ambient part. This situation is a bit more complex coding-wise, but not completely undoable.

     

    Another idea would be to have subteams and larger 'mother' teams. This would be the opposite of the current strategy of having one huge team and trying to enlist as many people as possible. Something like:

     

    - OC Forums

    -- OC Forums LN2 Boys

    -- OC Forums "we don't need no liquid nitrogen"

    -- OC Forums "I like them old and cheap"

     

    But that makes things more complicated as well.

     

    Thanks for the response. Something like that is exactly what I was thinking would happen anyways. Once the sub-zero guys get all the team's points, then the ambient guys would split off and make a "OC Forums Ambient" benching team.

     

    The mother and sub teams idea is interesting, especially if the points from each sub team contribute to the mother team's point total. So, would there just be 2 divisions, sub-zero and ambient? Or, a division for each type of cooling, LN2, Dice, Phase, H2O, Air, etc.?

     

    Sorry I didn't respond earlier in the thread, but ~10 pages of mostly **** puts a distance between posts pretty quickly...

    HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

    in HWBOT Rev.4

    Posted

    ... but if you would look closely at the Rev4, you might actually notice that we're doing A LOT to keep the small time overclockers happy. If you don't want to see it, you will not see it, however.

     

    There would be a paradox IF we'd start to reward people for not achieving the best result. What this concept is, however, is rewarding people for not choosing an 'easy' way (buy popular hardware) but support the team with different hardware. We reward the best result.

     

    This would severely stunt team growth, as stated many times before. Once a guy with sub-zero cooling gets his hands on all the hardware, then his points = the team points. So, anyone else is required to have sub-zero cooling to contribute to the team. This means hardly anyone new will ever join a team, and all the ambient cooling guys might as well just leave the team and start their own since they can't contribute anymore.

     

    I understand your quote: "There would be a paradox IF we'd start to reward people for not achieving the best result." For example, it's like every kid in little-league getting a trophy just for playing; it doesn't mean you're the best, but it acknowledges and rewards your effort. Some people work hard for those little "trophies" and it keeps them playing little-league or overclocking for their team. If you have to reward the scores that aren't the best even if it's just to keep teams together, then that's the best course of action, in my opinion.

     

    I still don't see how the small time overclockers will be happy. I want to see it, I really do. It must be going over my head or something. Could you explain?

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