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r1ch

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    My score is valid how do i put forward my case?

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted · Edited by [DR]r1ch

    Me and scott did this run together. Are we ok to as why it was deleted?

     

    Apart from having the CPU on Dice, and the GPU volt modded and on water, there's nothing special apart from a benching version of WinXP and some LoD tweaks.

     

    Thanks guys,

    Rich

     

    EDIT: Bench session thread here: http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=19710 Although no pics on the 8800GT as that was at 7AM with just 1kg Dice left!

    Moderation question

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted

    Firstly, I am not accusing anyone here of cheating of bad practice. :)

     

    http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=734173

     

    I would like to know why the following result has been 'moderated' so that it cannot be reported within a couple of hours of it being posted, despite not including a GPU clock speed program, and with the main 3DMark01 window and settings being covered up.

     

    I have seen scores blocked for this, what makes this one valid please?

     

    Thanks, and keep up the good work. :D

    Does Modaration Tool And Reporting Works?

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted

    I have the same view of this.

     

    I don't think many results I report have been dealt with.

     

    Can someone clear up how we should be reporting results?

     

    Also, I have a couple of blocked scores but received no email notifying me of this. I remember this beeing a problem previously - it might be worth checking this out (no spam filter, no free email service - guaranteed personally hosted email address).

     

    Thanks :)

    Wierd one

    in General hardware discussion

    Posted

    Guys, I think 415 points and the hwbot status of 'overclocking guru' mean you can be sure he's heard of EIST and C1E before so save the explanations. ;)

     

    Mate, try RMClock Utility from RightMark. That will tell you if EIST or C1E are still enabled, despite trying to disable them in the BIOS. I thank my Intel D975XBX for this info as it didn't have a C1E setting in the BIOS to change :)

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    the logical thing to do is to change the slots to how many core's the cards have, this ensures that cards are ranked against their own type ie. same amount of cores.

     

    Ranking all cards in the two categories of single card/sli-xfire is an unsophisticated and unfair ranking. For those with a single core cards placing them up on a board against multiple GPU boards does not dignify their results as it is no longer 'the best single card' because there are now essentially 2 cards on the 1 board.

     

    QFT. I suggested using the number of GPU's in my first few posts. We'll see what happens...

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    @[DR]r1ch: I'll leave the poll open till Sunday evening, a week should be enough to let those who care, vote.

     

    Fair enough :)

     

    I don't think people have kind of understood the intentions of the poll...far too many references to C2D's and C2Q's which is a completely wrong comparison.

     

    Dual cores and Quad cores are built as a single package on a single socket. The 3870X2 is in my eyes a dual socket card, with two 'sockets' allowing for two seperate GPUs. Yes, technically the card uses one slot.

     

    From the front page comments...

     

    Comment from Vak92

    QX9650 - 4 cores - 1 CPU

    3870X2 - 2 cores - 1 GPU

    like 7950GX2...

     

    Comment from AN7 OverClocker

    wrong

    Q9650 4 Cores 1 CPU

    3870X2 2 Cores 2 GPU's

     

    I fear people haven't understood the question.

     

    I'm sorry that we have made you feel that way. It was not our intention.

     

    We don't have closed minds. I have talked with other moderators and we all put this poll up. Of course we like to now what community think about these issues.

     

    Closed mind or not, I don't see any easy solution to moderate these new rankings which would be based on amount of GPUs. So my opinion doesn't change :(

     

    That's fair enough, and good to hear more of an explanation that just...

     

    Single card is a single card. No matter how many gpu's are under the heatsink. Just quit arguing about this.

     

    What do you think about the difference between a Core 2 Duo having two cores in one package under one heatsink in one socket...versus two GPUs both made independantly, stuck onto two serperate 'sockets' on a PCB with seperate RAM etc (more so with the 9800GX2)?

     

    I see it in the following way

     

    Single socket CPU (P4 631 / E6600 / QX9650) = Single GPU card (7600 / 8800 / 3870)

     

    and then

     

    Dual socket CPUs (AMD QuadFX, Skulltrail, Server stuff) = Dual GPU card(s) (3870X2, 2x 8800 in SLI , 2x 3870 in CF)

     

    It's apparent there's a grey area in between where

     

    3870X2 =/= 2x 3870 in CF

     

    So, as others suggested, maybe a hybrid or freak category is needed for these single socket, multi gpu cards?

     

    I don't know...I've talked enough, so I'll leave it all in your hands to make the final decisions :)

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    We can leave poll to talk ;)

    Single card is the winner as i can see...

     

    Frigging hell...18 hours gone and you're already calling a winner? :/// At least let this run for a few days, hell even a week before looking at the results.

     

    That being said, if the trend continues, then it would appear as if more people want it as a single card, so I'll accept that.

     

    What has seriously disappointed me is people like the guy I've quoted and also (off the top of my head) SF3D and jmke that seem to have very closed minds, not willing to even consider another person's point of view. I find this very sad.

     

    Thank you to the rest of the hwbot team for everything they've done, and creating the poll that is reflective of a larger group of people and not just the select few who think their opinions are the only ones that counts.

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    Hard to judge..

     

    But single and dual-core CPUs are also not splitted @ Pi / wPrime / PiFast...

     

    So, single slot, single card...

     

    In reply to your post, I quote my reply earlier in the thread in relation to the 7950GX2.

     

    r1ch;15440']
    If 7950GX2 was at single category' date=' it is no doubt 3870X2 should remain as a single card.[/quote']

     

    There is a well-known saying..."To cut off your nose to spite your face".

     

    There's no point repeating a decision from the past just because you made a (potentially wrong) decision in the past.

     

    I fully stand by this statement. Just because something happened one way in the past, it doesn't mean it's automatically right. It may well have been the correct decision at the time, but now may be better to proceed in another direction.

     

    That being said, look at what rich has already said about the CPU side of things....

     

    Splitting up single/multi sockets cpu's is planned, k404.

     

    If the fact that the CPU section isn't divided up was the sole justification for your point of view, then you obviously need to think again.

     

    I agree if we divide up the CPUs, and then the GPUs as well, I agree it starts to become a royal PITA with regard to coding, points allocation etc etc, but IMO that would be the fairest way to do it.

     

    It's obvious that this is all about hwboints and awards. Ultimately, those with the card are going to vote to keep it in the single category, as they can rack up the points by using a dual gpu card to get easy points at the top...you just need to look at some of the people who've voted to keep it in the single card category to notice that.

     

    I'm gonna be watching the votes on this with interest, and let's see where it gets to in a few days. :)

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    Old technology, no improvement in any part of it. Doubled up to perform like CF, using Crossfire onboard. Without Crossfire, that card wouldnt be performing how it is.

     

    If it was new architecture that performed like that, I wouldnt mind at all. Even if it was a native dual-core in one die.

     

    Thats why I voted the way I did :)

     

    K

     

    QFT IMO.

     

    100% Agree K404. :)

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    I don't have anything against a vote, but I don't think we need to make this bigger than it is. I have asked some MSN-contacts what their opinion is and it seems that most see this as single card and have no problem with it being dealed with as single card.

     

    Don't get me wrong, if really necessary, I'll create a poll and see what the outcome is, but I don't know if it's necessary to take this frontpage news?

     

    Front page news was a suggestion in order to draw in the number of people (2/3 of members) that you were requiring to get a good idea of their opinions, obviously this is completely your choice.

     

    I think that vote might be a good idea anyway, just out of curiosity.

     

    If the decision is to leave things how they stand then fair enough. Obviously a decision i don't agree with, but hey, that's life! :)

     

    Keep up the good work Massman and co. :)

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    Single card is a single card. No matter how many gpu's are under the heatsink. Just quit arguing about this.

     

    Arguing is probably the wrong word - I'm promoting the discussion of the topic. It's something that needs to be discussed as there's a number of people with the same opinion.

     

    I'm not trying to say a single card isn't a single card...that's like trying to say 2 + 2 =/= 4. I'm disagreeing with the use of the term 'card' as a category. I'm allowed to disagree. If the choice (by hwbot, by you, by vote or whatever) is continue with the current way I will respect that decision and this debate will be over.

     

    From what others (Massman) are saying though, I don't think this debate is over, and I welcome that vote - obviously it would need to be advertised to attract attention (hwbot front page?).

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    How it is unfair to have 3870X2? They are available to everyone who want to have them. When you can have two 3870X2 on same setup it will be Dual Card setup and there is own multiple card section for it.

     

    No changes are really needed.

     

    I don't feel bad, if my previous scores are beaten badly by new cards. It is part of this game. We all just have to accept that.

     

    I never said it was unfair to have one, you need the whole sentence to get the context of my point.

     

    I said it was unfair to have it vs a single gpu card.

     

    That's all I, and I think baz, sacha and everyone else is saying.

     

    Massman, if we can get that poll, I'm happy to go with the general concensus as long as the post that contains the polls makes it very clear what the differential is. :)

     

    Thanks for all the constructive comments everyone :)

     

    If 7950GX2 was at single category, it is no doubt 3870X2 should remain as a single card.

     

    There is a well-known saying..."To cut off your nose to spite your face".

     

    There's no point repeating a decision from the past just because you made a (potentially wrong) decision in the past.

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    One PCB = single card to me :)

    If im gonna buy 3870x2 im gonna buy ONE card NOT TWO :)

     

    So what about the 9800GX2 and 7950GX2 that has 2 PCB's? Do they go in a different section?

     

    It is a little ambiguous.

     

    As i've said multiple times before and not been challenged, I think it should be categorised by the number of GPUs.

     

    Obviously that means a lot of work for rich, and i understand if he would rather just ignore this and keep things as they are.

     

    I think it is a little unfair to have 3870X2 vs single gpu...and it's not like 'new tech vs old' because that would be like 8800 vs 7900 which deservedly gets beaten as it's a new architecture. This isn't new.

     

    # of GPU's, or state your intentions and close the thread IMO.

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    how can all of these scores be single card when there are 2x GPU

     

    it is wrong

     

    these cards should not be in the single GPU rankings it just does not work

     

    Baz, they're in the single card rankings...which at the moment is how it's differentiated.

     

    The way of changing this is for the good folk here responsible for hwbot to be talked round into changing the system to differentiate by GPUs and not cards or sockets.

     

    I know it's not a democracy here, and we're in massman and rich's hands, but I personally think this should go down to a vote.

     

    Categorising system based on:

    - Cards (i.e 8800GTX in same category as HD3870X2)

    or

    - GPUs (i.e HD3870X2 in same category as SLI 8800GT)

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    For me to get 64k in 3D03 I need to work very hard with cascade cooling and vmods

     

    For me to 70k with an x2 I only need to buy it put it in my system and submit to hwbot

     

    I agree with your point in general baz, but this argument doesn't help.

     

    There's always going to be an evolution of GPU's. 8800GTX's kicked volt modded X19xx and 79xx cards when they were released and etc etc. The problem here is that the HD3870X2 (and in time, the 9800GX2) have two GPU's and use the Crossfire or SLI technology to generate the processing power they posess. (Seperate point, but if it was a dual core GPU i.e two cores on one package like the R700 is apparently planned to be, then this question will come up again).

     

    The way this should be approached is we believe the system should be changed to "# of GPUs" not "# of sockets".

    Hd 3870x2

    in General overclocking

    Posted

    Tricky one this, and it comes down to the decision as to whether the scores are divided by "# of gpus" or "# of sockets" used.

     

    My opinion would be to change the system to "# of gpus", or differentiate based on whether SLI/Crossfire is used.

     

    i.e

    1 GPU

    2 GPU

    3 GPU

    4 GPU

     

    or...

     

    No SLI/CF

    SLI/CF

     

    The second (SLI/CF) obviously doesn't scale well when you think about Triple SLI, or the dual 3870X2 Quadfire or 4x3850 Quadfire. This makes it tricky for the future.

     

    The current system based on sockets does seem unfair, as the only difference between two HD3870's in CF and the HD3870X2 (internal CF) is the physical way they're connected - there's exactly the same GPU's.

     

    # of GPU makes the most sense to me and allows easy exapnsion for the future of hwbot :)

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