lnlcooling

Sweet!

Fugger thanks for all your help. I'll let the results speak for themselves. I'm a little shook up from all the negativity right now. It sounds like a nice offer to have you come out, but as you are already convinced of the non workingness of the OCC, I don't know how helpful you might be, or if I trust you. How do I know you wouldn't benefit from the OCCs perceived failure? Are you a ULT manufacturer? Even part time. Be really transparent. Are you close friends with any manufacturers? Those links are to your equipment as you said. Right? Do you benefit in any way when someone buys one or when the product looks better or gets press? Think about it, if the TIM was lost the OCC would be reading its own temp not the surface of the CPU. There would be no heat transfer. Fairly simple right. Interesting thing is I that -2 was my last benchmark of the night and the only one out of many that there was a temp swing. Yeah maybe the paste failed. Thank you for all of the advice. Thank you for your offer for help, but for the present, I'll stick with the people I have recently become friends amd colleagues with.

thanks so much man. I will PM you my number. Lets talk. Maybe you'd like to run it?

Sorry. Your claims are unfounded because you are assuming that my cooling head is the same as yours and don't realize it isn't. If you saw inside the head you would be shocked at the difference. Retention ring hold-downs are nothing new and widely used in nearly all mechanical industries. In fact I just fixed my wife's windshield wipers and there was a retention ring hold down on that mount. The measurements of CPU HS dimensions and HS mounts are widely available online so the design of our new hold-down was easy to engineer and not a result of buying your block and copying as you have implied. That would have actually cost more. We wanted to make the OCC better useable for open bench users so our old 3 part swivel hold and thermal isolator was replaced by the fully insulated new 1 part rev. It is my inclination to post a pic of the inside of my cooling head but my partners, an engineer and a MBA would have heart attacks and take revenge. If you want to discuss disclosure of my block design further, I am happy to share it with you for free so please PM me and there are proper ways to discuss it. If not, wait for the Non-Provisional Patent to issue and you are free as is the world to view the drawings. I furthermore, don't understand how you can say reasonably that there is some sort of massive temp swing that is not actually there. I will be posting hwbot scores tomorrow evening with better settings on my voltages. I am really stoked I have a good chip and look forward to showing how well the OCC keeps it under temp control. To humor you I will say that the temp probes are MUCH closer to the surface of the chip than any pot design I have seen out there. They are incorporated into the head and comm directly with the controller. This method is industry proven for accurate surface temp readings and is used widely in RF and Aerospace component testing. I have been surprised because of its proven accuracy that it has not been used in computer cooling. Maybe as you say there is no money in it and I understand that. But success is relative - I for instance would be proud just to introduce something that makes extreme cooling easier for all and more readily available. Please just PM me if you'd like to discuss it further, I'd be happy to spend time answering your questions to the best of my ability. I take no offense to your steering of this thread, but I would appreciate it if you would be courteous and allow the followers and contributors to have their fair share and let their interests also be satisfied.

Awesome!!

Splave is ranked number 1 on your team - XtremeSystems.

Thanks. Stoked to know my chip's potential. Really, if you just take a minute to watch the video i just posted you would likely see the reason is the Bios settings I used. There's a legend below the video to different section's times. I didn't make any of the voltages static other than the Vcore and CPU input. Looking to bench again on Wednesday with better settings and some decent paste. Man it might be a smart thing to not judge a book by its cover. Your block is completely different, other than it being a cylinder and copper. Nice thought on the heat transfer and surface space with multiple full fins bottom to top, but that would not work with the OCC. Also the two-part thing wouldn't work either. Also the mass of the OCC is likely 2x more. And the OCC-HC (the one in the video) does not use only cold (LN2) to control temp but internal heaters to heat and internal thermalcouples to monitor what is going on. The controller we use is very highly refined for controlled cold (both heat and LN2). Our heat/cooling system is also UL certified. The OCC is precise to 2 degrees fully loaded so far! Watch the HWBOT Prime 2 minute benchmark at the end of the above video. You can watch the temp swing in the upper part of the OCC software window. Delta loaded is 1 degree under 3 minute (+/- can't remember) HWBOT Prime Benchmark. Please don't try to imply that you have developed our machine in any way other than being part of the community of overclockers who showed me the need and inspired me to begin designing it a couple years ago. Please know however that I have seen your builds and I am, as I was when we first chatted, very impressed. I especially like the LN2 assisted triple stage cascade unit. That's impressive and must have cost a fortune in blood sweat and tears. I have also seen that you travel to compete and I totally respect that. Maybe we'll see one another on the road one day :-)

We already have a unit in the hands of a pro whose planned benching was delayed. We'll have a couple other well-recognized pros benching too within a couple weeks. Arctic Silver was recommended in another forum. I used it. No one was confused until today when Fugger confused the OCC system for a cascade or something with temp probes and "suction lines." I have already had the same exchange with him and, in his own words after railing on my system then reviewing what it was he said: "My apologies if I come of harsh, I am the owner and I also a builder and often skeptical of wild claims. We had a guy come in, know it all and tried to fake us with a vortex engine. I do research as you have seen, just seemed fishy that you had different names everywhere. [i have one other name "phasechanger" from a couple of years ago when R&D began... still on overclock.net] We know your knowledge of OC is limited, we know not to knock you on that and support you on any questions you might have. My dissection of your unit proves it is very real and you built a environmental case from a pc case..." BTW I have seen lots of posts by pros complaining of having lost the TIM contact and having subsequent issues. 1 XTU out of 12 in two sessions is not bad. That's during about twelve hours of chilling. Lots of folks have been following the past few months of development since the Patent Pending and revealing of the project. I have known Splave for a couple of years and he actually was very helpful even a couple of years ago in the beginning with answering some CPU dimension questions and wattage questions. Kal El introduced us back in '13. Of course there has been skepticism and there should be. But when really reviewed and tested (especially by pros which is right around the corner) it is plain to see that there are no mirrors and no smoke, save some LN2 fog. I liken it to when horses and wagons were replace by motor vehicles (although I know this is nothing near it) but all of the horse trade folks said it was impossible to replace the effeciency of the well known method of equine transportation. Here is a video of the OCC from this weekend with setup to benching with three of the benches I submitted to HWBOT this weekend:

We've been developing this machine for over two years, and we know how well it holds temps especially after extensive testing. Holding the -100 or 120 temps during the benches just seemed normal :-)

Interesting. The temps are being read right at the surface of the cooling head so if the cooling head is not making contact with the CPU then it definitely would read a temperature different than what the actual CPU temp is if the thermal paste failed. The entire inside of the case is being cooled by the gaseous nitrogen, likely somewhere just below zero overall, so the cooling on the CPU being at -2 with no load but no thermal thransfer connection with the headvwould make sense. The head is extremely accurate at surface temperature sensing. But if there is no surface temperature connection of course it would just read temperature of the head with no load.

AAAAHHHH!!!! Master teacher! So the thermal paste completely failed.

Can someone clarify? At -5C boards fail? Why do we see - all the time pots at <-140 and certainly cooler than -120? I'm not trying to be a bugger - just want to understand. I've had Mobo's way down -0 temps and haven't had that experience. Here is a pic of the case with the OCC mounted and the rig running smooth like butta, while the case is a popcicle.

The "temp probes" are internal thermalcouples. They are in the cooling head. Wouldn't be able to photo without disassembling. With this system, you don't insert a probe as with a pot. The probes are fixed internally. But you have me convinced on the TIM now. It is Arctic Alumina by arctic silver. Inexpensive in bulk, apparently ineffective at sub-zero. You'll see it in the info video I'm about to post on youtube. You'll see the head mounted and through to the benches. Thank you very much for the info on XTU having accurate temps. That really tells what is going on. I do have a little arctic silver on hand. May try that tonight. I'm ordering thermal grizzly and a RVE friday.

There are thermocouples at the base of the OCC (the surface of the head) as close as possible to the CPU surface. Not posting up photos of the inside of the cooling head. This is not a closed loop system. There are no MOBO connected temp probes and from what I've heard the CPU internal probe does not read accurate sub-zero temps. Time will tell whether "claims" made are legit. As I recall, you have seen the videos of the OCC running at -180C on the FX8350 - so yes it will maintain any sub-zero temp LN2 is capable of achieving.

Getting one and some grizzly this week.

Wow. I thought we'd been through this. The temp probe is in the head. The head is not overheating and the OCC works so well that it holds the temp at whatever setting within 1 degree of setpoint and within 2.5 degrees under load. I really don't consider any of this a fail at all as I have just started doing benchmarking with these benchmarks this weekend and I am not a seasoned overclocker by any means. I am going to post up a video of the process from set up to benching here in a few. I respect your standing as a top level benchmarking competitor. Maybe you are mistaking me for someone else as it would be really out of character for me to say that my temp probes are in places other than they actually are. The system wouldn't work at all if they were. BTW this is not a closed loop system. I remember you actually complementing this system on your site xtremesystems.org after a second look and then telling me that I'm welcome on the site.

Awesome! Thanks. I have a lead on an RVE in my price range. Will be picking it up!

Found a few on eBay - local. Think its a bad idea to buy used?

Thanks. The design of the head has changed, it is pretty much fully insulated now. I'll be posting a video from set-up to benching in a bit. I'm pretty sure voltage and TIM is the issue, and I was duped by NewEgg into buying a non-extreme Asrock Extreme4, thinking that it was designed for cold. That's 3 strikes. Any suggestions on an x99 MOBO I can ebay for +-$300? I found the batch number on the box. It's J513D142

OK. I'll be benching again later this week (thursday or friday). Let's chat before.

I know... I'm shopping now.

Right at the surface of the cooling head. The weird thing is at lower temps, the chip is less stable. Maybe a bad chip? I actually think the problem is something to do with my settings. I just got a reply on another thread that shows how to set the all of the voltages to static. Right now all the volts are on auto except vcore and cpu input. I'll bet that's the prob. The info I got is screenshots from bios on a 5830, but I'm willing to give the volts a try. The temps are definitely stable at whatever temp although the TIP could be an issue. I'm using arctic alumina. It seems more smeary than the past pastes.

Wow fantastic! Thank you!

Re Tweaks: ohoh maybe I don't mean tweaks... I mean settings. Very new to voltages, timings etc here. What I mean is that I'd appreaciate some advice on what to run on my system. For me, because of my cooling any temp is achievable and sustainable. So my main issue is which benchmarks to run and mobo/settings. Basic voltage stuff just a little past v-core and multipliers. One question I have is, there are many different voltages in the Bios, from FIVR to CPU core to Vcore and multiple settings each. All have the option for auto. But I know that the Vcore, CPU input, and any throttling/stepping/power saving should be disabled. Are there any other settings i should take off of auto? Any suggestions?

Awesome TnB! Keep rocking!