der8auer
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Posts posted by der8auer
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There is an elephant in the room we definitely have to talk about. For multiple generations the single card category has been scoring more points than multi card stages. As usual there are two different views on this. Some people ask me to remove globals, others want to keep it.
Especially in 3DM2001 it's a bit on the edge because I know some people disable SLI for subtests to achieve higher results than with SLI. My personal view on things like this is usually: If we can't detect it, we don't ban it.
What do you guys think about it? Remove or keep?
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Very nice work my friend :)
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Albrecht and me decided on a time but you will not know about the exact hour and minute. It's to fight sandbagging and reward those who post strong results early
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was it used for LN2 before?
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Very nice work there! Thanks a lot for providing the scope video :)
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I would take it if it's still available
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Could be a simple communication issue here because I was also in the full loop and indeed we did not get the information that you are supposed to be a participant. We will check with Corsair.
Also for your notice we don't do "24/7 customer support" on Facebook. I don't know what you are expecting.
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Just to confirm: all EU kits were shipped yesterday and today. I will have tracking IDs on monday.
Also to prevent any DOA I "XMP-tested" all kits before shipping. They were shipped by my guys at Thermal Grizzly and randomized this way.
Hope everyone will have a good time with the competition
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We will address the multi GPU "issue" at a certain point but right now we first have to adjust the point system itself to make the website faster and also easier to understand. Plus there should be higher rewards in general like back in the days.
I think we can all agree on the fact that SLI/NVLink is pretty much dead in general and we also don't want to emphasize categories which are mainly ruled by "more money". We are already in a business where money buys points to a certain degree if you can bin more stuff. So if we can make benching cheaper or at least less expensive it should be better.
But as I already said this has to be adjusted/decided later. Feel free to post ideas on this.
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Good old DDR4 haha
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2 hours ago, Alex@ro said:
you really are missing the point. It is a very good thing that Roman took hwbot. And also that you Alby are still here you old fart. However what is this topic about? You have real concerns and you gave a lot of thought for what? If intel's alderlake should be categorisez as a 16C, as 8C, as a 8+8 hybrid ? Let's see. Intel spec page lists it as 16 total core. Intel;s marketing reffers to it as a 16 core. It has 8 big cores with very good ipc and 8 efficiency cores which are more or less skylake. 8+8 equals 16, not 8 not 12 not whatever you disable from bios.
What is the amazing innovation here? I fail to see. Where is the fun in disabling those poor cores. WOW, you have a brand new cpu except ...it is the same.
That was my point before but I'm glad at least you saw this. If we would follow Intel marketing we would just list it as a 16c CPU. It would be very easy and no headache. But I also already know what 13900K and 14900K will probably look like and same goes for the coming AMD parts.
It's much easier for us to start this way. If we notice we were wrong in the next 1-2 generations - just delete the category. That is pretty simple (even tho we would also get hate for that :D) but if we figure out we should've done this decision 2 generations ago, we can't travel back in time.
Right now everybody starts the same and we will see how things change in the future.
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1 hour ago, Alex@ro said:
Honestly i didn't have a great laugh in ages, reading this announcement, this topic, this poll and everything that was said and discussed. I mean i am laughing not to cry, don't get me wrong, after the failures of the idiots that ran this place before it is really sad to see a matter like this popping out.
I am only going to say that there are divisions everywhere, in boxing, in olympics, in bodybuilding etc. I have yet to see Usain Bolt winning olympics then competing in a wheelchair in paralympics or whatever is it called.
Oh and last thing, if i was rich enough i would pay some hackers to erase this website content and instead turn it into some LGBTQ+++ whatever social website. With explicit pics and videos of course.
Seeing two teddy-bears calling themselfes daddy and having some fun is as disgusting as seeing this decision.
Happy I could make you laugh ❤️
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During FX, Intel Lakefield and everything else you mentioned it was a different Administration. So comparing the current situation and the past is a bit wrong.
The latest rumors state that AMD will bring Big-Little with Zen 5. This could be in maybe 1,5 years from now. Not too far away.
It's also very tiring to read the same conspiracy stuff over and over again. I can just repeat that we talked with Intel about this and even Intel said they are fine if we just list this as a 16c.
Let's just see how things evolve and how you guys are working with it once it's actually on the market. Deleting a category afterwards is just one click, but if you don't even try you will never know if it was a good idea or a bad idea.
As Allen already said there is a lot more what we would like to do, but there are still months of work ahead to be even able to think about it. Like the ranking changes Rauf proposed and so on.
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19 hours ago, _mat_ said:
Having more time now to answer properly.
I understand the problems that I am just one guy keeping the main part alive. I do have a team, two guys doing web stuff for the validation platform (still unreleased and currently on ice due to other work arrangements we need to finance our lives) and one graphics designer. But the truth is that all you can currently see, the win application, was made by myself. For now at least.
I don't like that at all and yes, it's risky. But so is HWiNFO (Martin, 1 guy) and CPU-Z (Franck, 1 guy). HWBOT itself was basically coded by one guy as well. If you don't have the money for redundancy, you have to take the risk.
That said, early on when Roman decided to buy HWBOT we got in touch and talked about the opportunity for a cooperation or maybe even more so there is no form of competition for an already difficult niché. It did not work out at the time (guess Roman was busy, it happens), but I am still up for an official cooperation to bring overclocking and benching to a whole new level and to even out the odds that BenchMate could die from one day to the next.
In any case, my will leaves the source code of the software to Splave. I sincerely believe that he would know what to do with it.
Let's just talk during the next days/weeks to get back on what we planed
Just too much stuff going on and too much other things we had to fix on here first
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From HWBot perspective I'm fine with either way, but I think we are at a point where things are already so complex that we're shooting ourselves in the foot on a daily basis. We have so many different plattforms and benchmarks that it's simply not possible to have one unique way of validation.
I'm also not a friend of changing things retrospectively. For example we could start "BM only" from Alder Lake and also ban WinXP with Alder Lake but not change older generations.
Yes, yes some will hate me when I talk about ban for the good old WinXP. However I'm with CENS, that things are very complex for new people and if they see that a 20 year old OS is required which might be older than themselves - could talk about how we handle this in future.
But again - I'm very open for changes as long as the majority of the community shares the view (same goes for the WinXP example).
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5 minutes ago, Matsglobetrotter said:
...core is core thread is thread....
Welcome to 2021 where core is not core anymore or why do you think I started this discussion? Thanks for your useless input
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I guess eventually it might make more sense to split globals in few categories such as Mobile, Desktop, High End Desktop and Server similar to what Rauf already suggested. I'm very open to such solutions but as I already pointed out we will need quite a lot of time to make this happen.
Regarding AMD FX I have no problem changing this to 4 Cores if this makes the community happy. Probably won't change anything tho?
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On 8/21/2021 at 6:12 PM, yosarianilives said:
Ht would become a huge handicap until you get above the non-ht thread counts. So currently 8 thread. Throw away 7700k, throw away 5300g,7350k is useless. It's time for 7640x, 9700k, and all that other shit nobody has spent as much time benching hard.
Not sure this is good or bad, but that's mainly how it would shake up rankings. Oh and g470 would become even more irrelevant lmao. At least 1, 3, 5 cores wouldn't really change in the slightest
Yea I would like to avoid drastic changes like that. So right now I think we will go for the dual listing. If we figure out after one or two generations that it was a bad idea we can still remove one of the two listings. That will be easier than changing the entire bot.
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Unless there will be a new single core CPU this won't change but I don't see how this is part of this discussion. Same as we don't see quad GPU stuff anymore these days. Tech changes and now it's changing to something new and we have to think about how to work with it. You might only be worried about how it is unfair for previous generations but we also have to make sure that HWBot stays interesting in the future.
Intel showed during the architecture day that Ultra Mobile will have 2P Cores and 8E Cores. This would be in the 10 Core ranking against 10900K.
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While discussing things internally we also had the idea at some point to add "mixed" categories. So instead of adding this kind of CPU to the normal 16C ranking we could also create "16C Mixed".
However we would still see different types of CPUs in the mixed rankings. For example "12C Mixed" could contain 8+4 desktop CPUs and at the same time 4+8 mobile CPUs. To me it felt like this cause more problems than it would solve. Opinions on this?
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I like the idea from a global points perspective. Realistically speaking I don't see how we could implement this within 2021. There are still too many bugs we have to clean up but at a certain point we want to change the global points anyway so we can talk about that again early next year.
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1 minute ago, Negative_Feedback said:
Would it be possible to create a "mixed core" category but still go by core count? For example the 12900K scores would be under the "16c mixed core" rankings instead of in the 16c rankings.
Technically possible. Things to consider with "xC Mixed" ranking would be:
- the native 8C, 12C, 16C... rankings might not change anymore as future CPUs might always feature mixed cores. In the end similar to 1C or 2C rankings which are pretty much dead after certain years.
- We might see strange CPU combinations in one ranking. E.g. 8+8, 4+12, 12+4 which could result in big performance gaps
Remove Globals for 3DM01, 3DM03 Multi GPU?
in HWBOT Development: bugs, features and suggestions
Posted
It was actually Splaves submission that reminded me of it. But as I pointed out: My intention is just to get feedback. If you guys all want to keep it - totally fine to me. Just want to get some opinions