jmax_oc

Ok, why not. What is the suspicious limit so ?

Jmke, I don't know why but it's almost sure that you want our scores stay blocked. First, we was accused of hardware sharing and we proove the opposite. Then you said : no subtests so faked/bugged run possibles blabla. We re-run some tests in air/LN2 to show you that the score are and were perfectly legit. Therefore the remaining blocked score haven't not exceptional in term of performance Finally, you persist saying that subtests are mandatory for us but not for everyone... Why ? WHY ??? WHY ????? You push the limit very hard : Our scores are blocked since they are doubtful and they are doubtful since we didn't make a thread here... Wow, impressive. No, our scores aren't doubtful. My team is full of respectable members so we never make doubtful results. We only didn't know the little subtest rules. And we are fed up that you don't want to understand that it's impossible to see our scores blocked and other scores alive for the same reasons.

And do you think it's the good solution to clean thousand of incomplete scores ? Me not. I think that subtests can only be mandatory in heavy doubtful setup (like Quad CF 4870X2 on 3d03 for example.... We saw 200k several times). And subtests have to be just useful but not mandatory in 99,99% of user's scores. But Neoforce, look what you do and lok what jmke do. It's not the same thing. 1/ You block each score who lack subtests. No exception. 2/ Jmke blocked only 'doubtful' scores who lack subtests. But his 'doubtful' definition isn't clear. For the 2 members, I have nothing against you. If you feel sad seeing this, just post here.

You play with word and rules jmke... Here is the today's list : http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840832'>http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840832 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840757 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840678 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840758 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840680 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840759 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840658 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840832 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=840700 And my previous list : http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=817041 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=809988 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=822758 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824595 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=831012 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824985'>http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824985 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824985 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=827043 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=829464 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=812745 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=832046 All these 20-22 scores lack subtest like our scores. And stop saying our scores are doubtful (hardware sharing) since they are not and since we prove it. Your difference with 'anymore' doesn't mean anything : they are not doubtful. So please consider our score just lack subtest like 20-22 scores mentionned higher. So our scores have to be treated like the 20-22 scores mentioned here. NB : Our previous point of view was that SLI scores + X58 on 2k3 is always doubtful. It seems that the today's decision isn't identical... Neoforce, yes I will spend time with you, Massman and Dami1stm for clarifying the relation between HWBot and us but no to clarify this situation... It's too far (10 days). No offence of course but Prague won't be the solution for this problem .

Jmke, Nop. Since we posted pics and vidz, our scores aren't suspicious. True ? If they are now classical benches so they have to be treated like every bench. True ? If they have to be treated like every bench, they have to be valid. True ? If not, explain me where I'm wrong. In your post, you said that scores have to be "doubtful AND without subtests" to be blocked. Neofroce said thing differently... Doubtful isn't a problem for him. Neoforce, HWBock never asked for more proof and wait for proof beforce blocking. HWBot always block and ask proof at the same time. So you say this sequence : no subtests => we report => HWBot block and ask more proof => if proof provided, HWBot unblock.

Although it's not very smart, I can unstand that we were suspecting of hardware sharing without posting here. We provided proofs and every body understand it. OK, no problem. We also will make announcement here to say in advance that we will have overclocking lan to prevent future problem. OK We also understand that you checked deeply our score since we posted massive screens. It's OK also, we understand. BUT It's not the purpose here.... 10 scores are blocked and we want to know why. If you that they are blocked only because they lack subtests ok but we will reports all results without subtests and we will check if each score is blocked like ours. It's not more complicated : Rules have to be applied for everybody. Nothing more, nothing less. It's up to you to allow all screens without subtests or to block all of them. But, rules have to be applied for everybody.

Why is it so important for you !!!??? But here is the link : http://www.jmax-hardware.com/forum/index.php/topic,3821.0.html It could be better to answer us one time : is the subtest rule have to be applicated for everyone ??? We cannot be more precise ! If you want, you can leave the problem. Others moderators may answer us. You have to understand that we are clear but HWBot's crew not. You didn't tell us the real rule entirely. You only said 2 things : 1/ subtests mandatory POINT. 2/ subtests mandatory for 'doubtful' scores like 3d01 (mipmap) 3d03 (SLI X58...) Maybe it's the forst time severla members write such 'strong' words so we can understand that you need time to discuss together.

I'm serious when I write it, yes, sure. 200% sure. If you don't block screenshots as incomplete/doubtful as our blocked screenshots, yes, bad words will start. Of course ! How could it be different ? Be punished / moderated whereas other not isn't acceptable from a 'fair' HWBot. I'm not keen of such acts but it can keep HWBot safe, you and me haven't lots of choices... We can ask things differently : what solutions do you suggest ? Our scores remain blocked and other scores not ? In fact, we start to fear that HWBot won't moderate every score with the same way... You can interprete it by different sides : we don't treat you of anything, we respect HWBot (look our activity, you will see that we are very active, trusting your honesty). However, now, we are just waiting what to do depending of what you decide. Finally, don't except us to have 10 scores blocked (total of 200 points) and to see 100 times more scores with same subtests problem. It's not acceptable : Rules have to be applied for everybody. That's the lonely sentense you have to insist on : Rules have to be applied for everybody.

Mates, HWBot moderators aren't idiot and understand perfectly our request. We said the same thing in 20-25 different way but the same global idea : same rule, same treatment for everyone. They just don't know that we are able (and maybe determined, depends to vote) to make the reporting job. But now, I'm sure they know that we are very serious by saying that we are able to divide the huge work into us and report all incomplete scores (including our scores, no problem) for egality. Egality is the one of the strongest idea in French. Maybe stronger than freedom... Now, it's up to HWBot's crew to decide.

Maxi, your word are very clear. But your words also say that you have to block all scores without subsets POINT. For any 3D/PCMark and for any setub, you say clearly that no subset = incomplete screen = score blocked. If HWBot is ok with it, why not. But you just imagine that you will have to block thousands scores. That's all I say. If you apply the rules strictly for us, then you have to apply the rule strictly for everyone. But don't worry, I think you will have a great support from JMax-Hardware to cancel thousands of scores although it's at the opposite at our wish. We started a vote on our site and if vote show that JMH want that the rule will be applicated to everyone, we will report each incomplete score with a strong organisation. It will be extremely boring for us and you but if it's your decision (no subtest => score blocked no exception), you will not make exception for it. We will never accepted to be moderated and others users (or some users) not...

Yea and without our lan, you won't blocked our results. But lan is a fact, lan is there, and lan give us more than 150 different scores. However, it's not the main subject (just the 'catalyst' like someone said. The problem is that HWBot declared some scores invalid because they lack subtests and be doubtful. So, I would like to know what is doubtful exactly. That's not more complicated : if our scores are blocked for a reason (good or bad), we want that similar scores from every team have the same. Of course, the best way is to be intellignent and to recognize that our scores aren't faked or bugged. Final list of the blocked score for 'bad' reasons is coming.

Read me carefully too. I don't say you thought we shared hardware. I just said you we are no longer accused of it (we were accused of hardware sharing by some members - and also 2 members I appreciated a lot ) But that's not the main problem now. We just want to know why our scores blocked. If the only reason is lack of subtests => apply rule for everby body If the reasons are lack of subtests + doubtful scores => exmplain why they are doubtful For information, my members don't accept the current situation in which only some french guy lose more than 150 points hardly win only because we lack of subtests. If you wanna apply the rule, you have to apply it to everyone. Be sure that if the vote for this win, you will have a huge assistance for my members to track every incomplete screens (like we had after the bench party for the 2 years of the site). So we are all waiting why our scores have been blocked. PS : if you made a mistake mixing sharing presomption / lack of subtests and so on, there will be no problem if you admit it. No angry, nothing. You are humans like us and error is human, non ? Our error is only not to show subtests. Be sure that we will do this next time

Ah ok. Since we are no longer accused of hardware sharing, maybe it could be fair to treat all our scores like classical scores and not doubtful scores. Especially when they have nothing extraordinary...

I'm sorry but I only understand the last line

French guys are very nice but we are also sometimes 'narrow minded'. In fact it's impossible find any french guy who can accept that equality could be not respected. Same treatment/rule/punishment for all is the base of our education since birth. So, maybe we appears like 'strange' people but we are more likely fair people who want that rules be applied to everyone. Without any distinction. If you want, we can sum up the several results we are talking about.

I could understand that if thhere is a real doubt of a very good run, subtests are usefull to prevent cheating. I agree with it if the score is particularely good for the setup. However, like Anvil said (and be sute that it's not a friend), the blocked results were not particulary good for the setup... So I can understand to block some screens if they are good but I disagree to delete score for the only reason that they lack of subtests. That's why I ask HWBot crew to know exactly their decision concerning subtests. Is it 100% screenshots without subtests => blocked OR Is it doubtful screenshots without subtest => blocked. In the second case, I would like to know exactly what is a doubtful score for HWBot.

Stay cool and respectful please. The agreement rules often changed without news so it may quite hard to know them exactly (example for XP startup on PCMark 2005) Pofigist, by saying that, you are ok for blocking every incomplete scores on HWBot... Although moderators weren't agree on the same points. Some one said that that are a 'plus' which use in case of doubtful results on others said that they are 100% mandatory. No one write precisely if no subtest => score blocked or if no subtest => depends of scores and users... If the blocking decision depends of bench/score/rig/tweaks or else, nobody give us the common rule to consider a score blocked or not. It's not as easy as you want pofigist... That's why I insist on it. And that's why I'm asking my member to know what to do exactly : 1/ reporting all incomplete to make HWBot safe and fair 2/ take points in our ass without reporting any incomplete screen.

I repeat : like most of clockers, we didn't know that subtests were mandatory. You can take examples if you want, I can give you others also (me, dami1stm, westyle, pedro rocha, cbgpcs ...). They all are fair clockers who never cheated and these people didn't show each time the subtests windoows... And don't make confusion : respectable is different to someone who make perfect screen. Respectable is someone who is bright by its behaviour / knowledge / skills. I'm waiting official decision from RB. If the decision stay the same (no subtest => score blocked since it's doubtful), I would like to know precisely all douubtful situation (like SLI on X58 on 3d03 for example). If you want to block our scores, it's ok we will accept it. But we won't stay at our place, sad by seeing our previous work deleted. We will do our best to make this rule applied to everyone.

No man for 2 reasons : 1/ these 10-12 results are perfectly fair. As fair as our scores 2/ these 10-12 results represent less than 1% of all scores which can be reported. 3/ the best for everything is to moderate more easily : let all scores without subtest here and that's all. Write a news and it will be ok for everybody. 4/ Your hobby is to moderate but your duty if you say that HWBot is a fair land, so you have to moderate each results like us. It's the only way for HWBot to keep member's respect : one rule for everyone. I repeat : blocking every score isn't the best solution. I prefer to be clear. But blocking only JMH's scores is the worst solution.

Read me carefully. Maybe my english isn't the best one but I think I'm clear : If you block our score for a reason X, so you have to do the same for all scores with the same reason X. In my example X = score SLI or 4870X2 on X58 platform for 3d 2003. But don't be too quick in your answers. It's not important to answer us in one hour. It's important to do the best choice : 1- All blocked (bad thing) 2- All unblocked then you make a news and apply strictly subtest rules (best thing) 3- Block only our scores and let other score as douptful as our alive (the worst thing for everybody)

Ye, that's Benji said : 0cool make an 'invalid' screen without GPUz.

Wait and see 0cool. They have to meet them to take the good decision. They want to be HWBot are fair as possible (and I'm convinced about it) so they will apply the same rule for every one.

I spend only 10 minutes checking SLI / 4870X2 on 3d03 for 'huge' scores. Here you can see a list of incomplete scores (no subtests). They are all 'doubtful' since they can have bugged run since we don't see subests (like Dami1stm for example). http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=817041 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=809988 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=822758 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824595 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=831012 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824985'>http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824985 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=824985 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=827043 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=829464 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=812745 http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=832046 If you block our score, you have to do same with their scores too. Those scores are like some of our scores : they doesn't respect strictly the rules. HWBot is very huge so if you decide to apply rule on us, apply rule on everyone. For the owners of the quoted scores, I don't know you, I don't dislike you and I don't want your score be bloqued. Don't be furious against me or JMH, you are only quoted for examples. I only want that HWBot treat us like everyone to be as fair as possible.

Yes it seems that many members don't trust us despite we never cheated and despite we proof every thing we can proof (no sharing, real score since we make some of them again...). I'm sure that you know that all our scores are real and aren't faked. So I don't understand the problem with it. 1- We didn't know the subtest rule (like most of clockers on HWBot). 2- Next time, be sure that you will find everything you want 3- We provide pics and videos showing unsharing 4- We provide new screens with similar performances => it says that we didn't cheated the first time. 5- The remaining blocked score aren't extraordinary with the setup. I fear that you are far too strict against us... For example, you blocked Dami1stm 3d06 score's because he used SLI on X58. He has a complete screen (except for subtests). He also had a futuremark validation but FM suxed and he can't make it public (therefore you knoiw it's possible, we not). He provided a screen showing the subdetail and the whole datas and your answer : he can photoshop his screen... Seriously, I think that for the first time on HWBot, you abuse of your moderation's power... Dami1stm is a respectable member.

OK so I'm sure you will understand we may check every screen from the 15 May 2008 and report all the incomplete ones. It's sad, it represent a lot of work, 99% of users will hate us but if it's the lonely way to get a fair HWBot, we may take the risk...