ASRock 775i65G R3.0 - mod and recap?

[trodas]

I wanted board that support AGP and the Core 2 Duo CPU's, especially the Core 2 Extreme X6800 for AGP benching. Dunno if that was a good choice, but the first board I get for this purpose is ASRock 775i65G R3.0. It does not look like much:

 

http://postimg.org/image/i2e14qssf/

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/775i65G%20R3.0/

 

...but it promise support for the FSB 1066 on the fast CPUs. I ordered a Core 2 Extreme X6800 ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-2-Extreme-Processor-X6800-SL9S5-2-93-GHz-4M-1066-MHz-FSB-/191455804119?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c93a7bad7 ), some fast rams should be moving towards me too ( http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=95400&page=2 ), so what remain is a good cooler, PSU and let's the journey begin

 

At first I tried a lazy old Celeron 336 (2.8GHz) and some crapy rams (2x 512MB Mushkin enhanced 2.5-4-4-9 tested at 200MHz):

 

 

The board is completely stock, except that I get rid of the stickers and the "bubble gum" for the chipset cooler, replaced with AS2.

 

There did not seems to be a way to increase Vcore in bios and using a stock Intel cooler I hit wall at 154MHz FSB (x21) pretty soon:

http://valid.canardpc.com/lregg7

 

Now we can all quess, what that caused. Not enought Vcore? Celeron having a problem going over 3.2GHz? Poor cooling? Poor old FSP300-60NP PSU? Rams? (they should not be the case, as I tested them with the timings (except TRAS 9, this board did not let me set over 8) at 200MHz)

 

Never the less, I started measuring on the mobo what caps I can replace with quality ones. There is the table of caps and voltages on ASRock 775i65G R3.0:

Including original .ai file (Illustrator 7), if anyone want to use/print it for own moding.

 

Surprisingly, the board have zero caps from the bottom. And since it have only 5Vcore output caps, then I have to come up with some mod that add caps to the Vcore output, as this is IMHO not enought caps for only 3 phase Vcore regulation.

 

Still, people managed max FSB 352MHz: http://ww.w.hwbot.org/submission/2430766_ludek_reference_clock_775i65g_352.44_mhz

...max memory clock 250MHz: http://ww.w.hwbot.org/submission/2327744_chris_666_memory_clock_ddr_sdram_249_mhz

...and max CPU clock od 4.2GHz: http://ww.w.hwbot.org/submission/2339937_darkzeus_cpu_frequency_pentium_4_641_4220.4_mhz

 

...so I have something to look forward to

Edited May 15, 2015 by trodas

[trodas]

So, when my Celeron 336 does not like to go higher that FSB 154, then what about my Pentium 4 650? Can it get higher? We see.

First at all, puting a P4 in the mainboard "unlocked" the DDR400 settings (previously only 133 and 166MHz ram settings are available, now 200MHz is possible too, hoooray!).

 

And another thing is, that the Intel cooler is not cooling the CPU well, when come past 3.5GHz, as there are serious thermal slow-downs...

 

Also the Mushkin enhanced rams cannot make it stable past 200MHz (maybe not even on 200MHz, as they need the TRAS 9, while maximum setting is 8 on this board), so I replaced them with 2x1G sticks OCZP4001G that I have tested they run well at 2.5-3-3-7 1T to 232MHz with mere 2.64V

 

 

Sadly it turns out, that any overclocking with this "cooler" is just a wishfull thinking, so solution is simple - get better cooling, mod the mainboard caps for quality ones, add caps, use good PSU - and possibly also use less TDP demanding CPU (P4 650 have 84W TDP, Core 2 Extreme X6800 have 75W TDP).

 

Also I realized, that the nVidia FX 5600XT card, witch I like and moded pretty much well ( http://s18.postimg.org/g28j6c70p/Ge_Force_FX5600_XT_cooling_Accelero_Mono_Plus_5.jpg ) cannot give over 60Hz output in 1280x1024 using DVI. Crappy lame HW limits. I learn that nVidia used crappy TMDS encoders in the whole FX 5xxx line, so basically it cannot send quality digital signal of need clocks for 75Hz... damn!

 

(hence crappy R9100 can do 75Hz over DVI, but FX 5900 Ultra cannot)

 

Solution - get Radeon 9600XT and recap it, mod it

 

...

 

I have to report a little progress:

- get serious PSU - done. eVGA Supernova G2 850W might be a "bit" overkill, but it does the job done:

 

- get serious cooling - done. Noctua NH-C12P SE14 will get the job done and keep even highly TDP demanding CPU's in reasonable temps:

 

Also I have progress on the bios thing - using AMIBCP v3.51 ( http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/61062-ASRock-775i65G-R3-0-bios-unlock ) I opened the bios and - sadly - there is no hidden options:

Damn.

 

Nevermind - how far it will overclock now, witch good cooler? Even 218x17 (3703MHz: http://valid.canardpc.com/hrmiv0 ) does not seems to be a slightest problem.

 

Surprisingly (there are plenty of much faster CPUs, so WTF?) I even set a SuperPi 32M record for the mobo:

http://hwbot.org/hardware/motherboard/775i65g/

( http://hwbot.org/submission/2858182_trodas_superpi___32m_pentium_4_650_31min_52sec_609ms )

 

...witch is hardly any record, but currently it is

 

 

So till the rams and X6800 Extreme CPU come, I could play a bit to see, how far the poor P4 650 can be pushed w/o increasing the voltage

Edited August 15, 2015 by trodas

[Christian Ney]

Cool

[trodas]

Thanks, Christian Hopefully it will be cool - in the end result

 

 

A serious setback happend - rams aren't performing how they should

 

Since the target CPU is Core 2 Extreme X6800, I need fast DDR1 rams. For P4 a 200MHz is fine (800/4 = 200), but for 1066MHz CPU is need 266MHz rams to have FSB:rams into 1:1 for the maximum speed. Therefore I started searching for rams, that can do 266MHz. A user from germany showed that his Qimonda rams, using CE-5 chips can run at 265MHz getting 2.7V (Abit IC7-Max3 with intel 875 chipset):

 

 

So he sold me these and when i used the very same ram sticks (see S/N) in ASRock 775i65G with intel 865G chipset at 2.75V, I get them fail at mere 216MHz, using the very same settings:

 

 

...

 

Sure anyone can claim, that it was because my CPU cannot handle that overclock, right? Well... wrong. Even there is no Vcore increase, my CPU can handle 228MHz FSB ( http://valid.canardpc.com/hl1nhr ) somewhat stable for CPU-Z and benchable it can handle 220MHz:

 

 

So to put it short, Qimonda rams fail at 216MHz, OCZ rams working at 220MHz. Hardly this could be because of the CPU ... or can it? Who can explain me, what just happend? Same mobo, same CPU, same settings... yet so dramatically different results?!

 

What can be wrong? Could the ASRock somewhat address the rams SO bad, that they now fail at 216MHz, when they worked on Abit at 265MHz?!

 

...and no... I cannot use these OCZ rams for 266MHz, as they have top frequency about 231/232MHz with reasonable timings

[trodas]

Aaaargh!

To add insult to injury, when Core2Duo CPU is inserted (yes, mine Core 2 Extreme X6800 made it to me from China), the mainboard completely block ALL ram clock changes, FORCING the 3:2 divider as FSB:ram locked divider...!

 

Therefore now I do not need rams that are good in overclocking (or at least on certain HW). Now I need could get a little boost only by getting 200MHz rams (PC3200) that can do 2-2-2-5 at 2.7V (that exclude rams with BH-5, BH-6 chips).

 

My ram is running at 190MHz now. Only. 286FSB. If by pimping the mobo with good caps I could hope to get 300MHz FSB, then I get 200MHz on the rams...

 

default X6800: http://valid.canardpc.com/d6wa6r - 2.93GHz

stable: http://valid.canardpc.com/rjg1fw - 3.14GHz

benchable: http://valid.canardpc.com/i68sc4 - 3.25GHz

max OC: http://valid.canardpc.com/557qcn - 3.29GHz

 

So a 2-2-2-5 chips are the only way to slightly improve the performance... and that it is. I run my OCZ at 2-3-2-5 now, even tightening few of the advanced timings to get more out of them. Still that feels like being cheated - I expected the possibility of FSB:ram as 1:1, so a 266MHz rams should fly there...

 

On the other hand, a R 9600XT made it too, and it is a beautifull little card:

 

And even she is full od bad caps (small are G-Luxons and big ones are Licons), she already score some interesting scores:

http://hwbot.org/hardware/videocard/radeon_9600_xt/

 

So I think I will like it a lot

[trodas]

My idea of replacement caps for the ASRock 775i65G R3.0 mainboard:

-------------------

4x Chemi-con KZG 1000uF 16V d8 -> 5x Nichicon RNU 330uF 16V (RNU1C331MDN1) (+ one empty near the PSU connector)

5x Samxon GE 1500uF 6.3V d8 -> Nichicon LG 2200uF 2.5V (PLG0E222MDO1TD)

1x Panasonic FL 680uF 4V d8 -> Nichicon LG 2200uF 2.5V (PLG0E222MDO1TD)

19x OST 1000uF 6.3V d8 -> 5x Nichicon LG 2200uF 2.5V (PLG0E222MDO1TD)

-> 11x Nichicon R5 560uF 4V (RR50G561MDN1)

-> 3x Nichicon R5 470uF 6.3V (RR50J471MDN1KX)

11x OST 100uF 16V d6.3 -> 8x Nichicon S8 1200uF 2.5V (RS80E122MDN1) (one empty)

-> 4x Nichicon S8 560uF 6.3V (RS80J561MDNASQJT)

+ 11x ceramic caps on all Vcore caps + sound cap: ceramic 22uF 6.3V 1206 (JMK316AB7226MLHT)

+ 2-4x taltalpolymer caps on Vcore bottom near CPU: 470uF 2.5V (2R5TPF470M6L) - if I can fit them there somehow...

[Stermy57]

Hi trodas!

I love your bench!

Any news about your project?

[trodas]

Thanks! Quite messy, but working bench. What do you expect, heheh :-) News? Waiting for caps. That is usually the longest part of all my projects, because getting the right components is not only cost-prohibitive, but also very problematic and lenghty.

 

Caps are ordered from Mouser.com, but no information about the order since 15.6.2015:

https://cz.mouser.com/OrderHistory/OrderDetail.aspx?qs=9C%2fvjDbyW3V1fmZ4G2SNFokJWM6STzNO

 

Dunno, how long this will took AND there are not even all the caps I need for the mobo ordered. These are missing (not only for this project, but so some other projects as well):

 

5x UCY2G470MHD6 (Frank PSU)

2x RR50G122MDN1PH (R 9600XT)

1x RR50J821MDN1PH (R 9600XT)

12x RF80G331MDN1PX (R 9600XT)

11x PLG0E222MDO1TD (ASRock 775i65G)

3x RR50J471MDN1KX (ASRock 775i65G)

 

But since I have no other source that could help me out with the parts, then we have to wait... Sad, huh?

 

ATM I could only show you that the clock generator is Winbond W83194BG-SD:

(my ASRock 775i65G R3.0)

 

...or that the Vcore regulating chip is RT8841:

(my ASRock 775i65G R3.0)

Witch is sad.

 

If the contolling chip was a L6714 chip, then the Vcore mod would be easy, because that chip have Offset pin, where when you put another that ZERO resistor, you get % of voltage increase. 40k is about 10% Vcore increase, but you can set more:

http://www.controsensi.it/Mods/4CoreDual-SATA2/Contents_Eng.htm

http://forums.vr-zone.com/hardware-depot/192571-volt-mod-done-right-asrock-775dual-vsta-l6714.html

 

However only other ASRock boards have the L6714 chip. Such as the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA, witch I get now too: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=137706

Edited June 26, 2015 by trodas

[Christian Ney]

Are you sure it's a good idea to replace 1000uF caps with 330uF caps?

Difference is a bit too big to me.

[trodas]

To be honest, not quite sure, but that is what this test is all about, right? If overclockability will be higher after recap, then it is a viable strategy

 

The Vcore input caps are very important for the whole regulator. Yet capacity is only one of about 5 major capacitor properties. These are:

- capacity (the number of energy it can store - the higher the better)

- voltage (as close to the working voltage as possible, beware of DC bias in ceramic caps, it could be 80% capacity off...!)

- ripple current (maximum current the capacitor can deliver steadily w/o overheating itself, the higher the better)

- ESR (resistance of the capacitor - the lower the better, ideal will be zero for infinite current )

- ESL (impedance of the capacitor - the lower the better, as that enhance frequency characteristics)

- optimum operating frequency (polymers max. ripple at 120Hz is x0.05 (!), while for most elytes it is x0.5 coeficient ... you get x1 at 100kHz, but also polymers can go higher w/o losing the specs, elytes cannot)

 

(also important is Leakage current, temperature range, dissipitation factor, endurance, shelf life... shall I continue? )

 

So with that in mind, let's compare these caps:

Chemi-con KZG 1000uF 16V - max. ripple: 1870mA - ESR: 0.021 Ohms - leakage current: 160 uA

Nichicon RNU 330uF 16V - max. ripple: 6100mA - ESR: 0.008 Ohms - leakage current: 1056 uA

 

So even that the capacity is notably lower (3x lower that the original), the maximum ripple current is 3.26x higher. Also ESR is 2.62x lower, while leakage current is much higher with the polymer (6.6x higher), witch is basic polymer flaw (also a slight noise in signal, witch can be cured by using ceramic caps to bridge these caps...).

 

Therefore my question was - is more important ripple current, or capacity in this particular place? The answer was - ripple current:

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46164

 

But test determine what happen I'm also very curious, because the noise and limited capacity could seriously impair the VRM design. Even Intel made some CPU VRMs with input elyte caps. Examples are Intel D955XCS or even overclocker board Intel D975XBX "Bad Axe" or Intel D925XCV - there phases and elytes on the input:

 

 

So the future tell us, if the focus on ripple current is valid or not. And that would be an interesting test, don't you think? Keep in mind, that I have very well determined the stable OC, benchable OC (semistable) and max. OC So I will notice any change for better (witch I hope for) or worse (witch would trigger me to replace the caps for elytes).

 

Sadly the time to get the caps is the problem. I would need something like "being sponsored by Nichicon" :-) ...or at least someone cooperative enought in USA (Digikey) for the purchases of hard to get caps...

[trodas]

Since Mouser did not have even stocked the best 2200uF 2.5V Nichicon polymers for Vcore output as well, as 330uF 16V Nichicon polymers for Vcore input (470uF polymers have lower ripple, so... no) - yes, these PLG0E222MDO1TD, RNU1C331MDN1 - then I cannot continue with the mod, unless I get the need caps. Waiting time is currently at 15 weeks... So I contacted Nichicon directly there: http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/contact/index.html

And if anyone like my mods and would like to see, how this continue (how more overclock I gain with good caps, etc.), then it might be a good time to drop them a line or two, that could potentionaly make them agree to supply me with the much need caps. I write this, out of sheer desperation with the neverending waitings for few (but much need!) components:

Hello, Nichicon support.

I made plenty of repairs and upgrades of old computer hardware for fun or better overclocking/bench results using Nichicon capacitors. Such as these threads:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/gigabite-fx5600xt-with-evercons.23113/#post-3043797

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/radeon-r9100-recap.194970/

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/msi-pm8m3-v-recap.190064/#post-2972339

As visible, people are interesed. I would like to do more such mods, but sourcing capacitors are very hard and lenghty for me. Mouser did not have stocked for example these caps: PLG0E222MDO1TD, RNU1C331MDN1

So I would kindly like to ask, if for the promotion of Nichicon caps I could not get capacitors directly from Nichicon to have them faster and be able to show the world what they can do.

In short - good advertisment just for suply of caps. Are Nichicon interesed? I usually post these threads on 20+ forums, where they gain attention. I could provide examples, of course.

Thanks for letting me know.

Pavel

A little sponsoring could not hurt and things could finally MOVE ON. But... it depends on what other people do, so... are you tired of waiting? There is the chance to kill the wait.