"Oldzen RAMvenge" team challenge proposal

[previousslayer]

Please feel free to move or purge this, I'm a bit new around the forums ?

I understand directing your time to this right after G.skill comp might've not been the best way to go esp. coming from someone who doesn't submit much on HWBot, BUT.

I've had an idea for a while that I'd like to share to the bot community but wasn't even sure where.

Your average 3-stage comp/challenge but the twist is that it's between teams (like the cup) and, for example, single best submission per stage per team (unlike the cup where 3 people should sub). Proposed duration is 3 months, e.g. the whole summer, with all 3 stages happening at the same time (unlike G.skill comp where they finished gradually). And yep, this is definitely not something the "Challenge someone to beat your score" function on the main site could cater for.

The topic is RAM overclocking on Ryzen 1000- and 2000- (and 3000- APU) series. So Zen1/+ CPUs, APUs and Threadrippers (socket TR4). The premise is that I've gone through testing a whole bunch of various memory modules and ICs on my trusty Ryzen 1700 (later replaced with a 5700G but also a Zen1-gen 200GE in a spare build) and those OC stats coupled with historical RAM trivia and analysis are probably what I'm best known (among 1 1/2 people) in the community; the point, meanwhile, is that over this testing process I've found the Zen1 memory controller very fun and not the worst in the existence of DDR4. And severly underrated on HWBot and across the Web. It has its quirks and funnies but even those could be utilized for extra entertainment at the proposed comp, like in my example.

I've done a writeup on my proposal here: Oldzen RAMvenge (rentry.co)

Can't wait for your feedback, and hoping this might move somewhere one day! All the best

[Leeghoofd]

https://hwbot.org/competition/Oldzen RAMvenge

Issue with only one score per team is that one user can wrap it up ( if he has the hardware ofc )

[previousslayer]

True that, one-man armies all around. Although with TR4 that's a given. IIRC the usual strategy for team comps is average of 3? Should recheck in the history...

Also started to get suggestions on the Discord so there's a lot of housekeeping before everything starts off.

I just gave this the comp tag but it didn't register as the official thread, hmm...

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by previousslayer

[denvys5]

On 4/12/2023 at 1:23 AM, previousslayer said:

and Threadrippers (socket TR4)

Guys, this was a joke, calm down, chill ?

[previousslayer]

? I don't remember that convo, had this idea on my own for a while

[denvys5]

Just now, previousslayer said:

? I don't remember that convo, had this idea on my own for a while

CountryCup 2022 stage discussion on hwbot's discord

 

On 4/12/2023 at 1:23 AM, previousslayer said:

Zen1/+ CPUs, APUs and Threadrippers (socket TR4)

I'd suggest if we have either single core stages, or multicore with per core scores.

Since for mem there are not a lot of options, valid and pyprime. Yeah, lets do the hell challenge, valid on TR4 ? 

 

A thing to note, I want to hear a clear definition, is the compo intendent for "no rules, best score", or more focused on the efficiency of scores, with cpu clock or cooling limitations. Maybe something funky, like, fastest zen1 pyprime with tRCD=20 and max cpu freq 4000  

[previousslayer]

Ah aight

I've written it all in more detail on rentry but let it be

So ime Crunchy responds to RAM nicely as well so that's the third discipline I've suggested (apart from valid and PYPrime)

Valid isn't limited to TR4 as of now but could be ? I just see no point in the handicap, let it be whatever runs best. Maybe something will be discovered on TR4 that isn't known to work on AM4. Other limitations, I say let it be all the same deal as usual in the category. No one ime has complained about disabled cores there, for one thing.

The remaining stages, it was strongly advised to limit the core count for the TR4 stage to something like 8 (as per the 1900X) and I agree - otherwise someone with a 2990WX will just swoop the leaderboard. Whether SMT must be off, not sure (all TRs have it so no unfair advantage). This stage as of now will be Pi-10b Crunchy.

Whether AM4-only PYPrime Hynix (or any other "unusual" idea, say, only run GDM off, only run 4 DIMMs etc.) needs to have a core and/or SMT limit, not sure. There wasn't any at the last Challenger or Team Cup for all I remember ?‍♂️

Honestly I say minimal rules best score. There are enough effi comps happening on the bot but maybe there's more to the Zen1/+ memory controller than effi. So let it be all means necessary (that means all cooling) except those fooling the monitoring software. There are enough tricks circulating around that help RAM OC on early Ryzen (or on any platform in general) on a hardware level, not software, but they're not widely used for submissions in this particular scenario (no results on par with Rocket Lake let alone DDR5 = no points = no interest). This could be a neat showcase of those imo, and I personally wouldn't even consider them cheating, they're known stuff.

Cheating in the way of forging IC identification (for the Hynix stage if that gets a green light) is possible to prevent though, trust me on that. G.skill comp has already set a precedent for video proof ?

 

Also core clock WILL have to be limited for PYPrime and ycruncher (so anything except valid), agreed on that. Don't wanna see this turn into a core godbin contest instead of IMC godbin contest (or that+clever application of known stuff) like it was supposed to. There's a typo in the TR4 ycruncher stage, should be 4005 MHz like for AM4 PYPrime.

Edited April 13, 2023 by previousslayer

[denvys5]

10 minutes ago, previousslayer said:

PYPrime and ycruncher

7 minutes ago, previousslayer said:

instead of IMC godbin contest

I'm not sure this contest will be only about IMC luck. I'm expecting a lot of research and experimentations into boards, bios, different sticks and windows, for these stages.

[previousslayer]

Everything counts I guess. Someone will bin, someone will bruteforce until stuff degrades, someone will experiment wisely, someone will combine these approaches

[TheeCasualObserver]

My only complaint as such on the comp would be that without access to TR4 it's not possible to complete all 3 stages.