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rtsurfer

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Posts posted by rtsurfer

    Is the GIGABYTE Z170-SOC Force LN2 Retail or ES?

    in Benchmark Rules

    Posted · Edited by rtsurfer

    Z170 Ln2 is not happening at all.

    http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=459940

     

     

    Z270 might have happened, but now unless Gigabyte releases 50 ( pretty sure it was less) something boards on Newegg like they did with the Z97 ln2 board, this is never gonna work. And that board is considered "retail" as far I can remember.

     

    Am I the only one that sees how ridiculous that for this to be rendered useless. Gigabyte has to sell like 5 on Newegg. 5 honest people & other sponsored people having it would be more skewed that 50 something (or more, depending on how many want it) people having it with group buy. But we just can't get past the complaining.

    Is the GIGABYTE Z170-SOC Force LN2 Retail or ES?

    in Benchmark Rules

    Posted · Edited by rtsurfer

    This is my final post on the matter (Or atleast i hope so).

     

    The reason Hwbot has a different league & separate restrictions in place for ES hardware is because ES hardware gives people unfair advantage as it is superior to retail & exclusive. If there wasn't that superiority/exclusivity stuff, no one would care (or the majority wouldn't) to make it restricted.

     

    The way this board's buy-in stands right now, it is not going to give a group of people unfair advantage & as such, shouldn't be restricted to Elite leagues. You can argue that it doesn't fit the definition of retail or whatever, i would think that majority of people here don't care whether the stuff they are benching is retail or not as long as everyone is on a level playing field.

     

    So you can call it ES, call it Bunnying Super Duper Exclusive Classist Motherbaord or whatever. But if you are trying to restrict it to Elite league, you are full of sheet & you know it.

     

    Edit:- I will say that its an ES until the group buy happens.

     

    Edit2:- I wasn't aware that Chilli-man won it in a competition. That's kind of a blurry area. I can't blame the guy, but the situation is unique. Maybe its time to make a rule for "ES" given away as prizes, whatever the community chooses, but atleast make sure that we don't have to have this discussion again in the future.

    Is the GIGABYTE Z170-SOC Force LN2 Retail or ES?

    in Benchmark Rules

    Posted

    Exactly. You just proved my point. It's not a retail release, and was never going to be.

     

    Its not ES either.

     

    Can you buy ES from Intel, Gskill, Asus.??

    And also get them for your 50 friends.?

    ES are exclusive, this board won't be.

     

    People complain all the time that companies dont listen to overclockers and release products that overclockers want. Here we get an attempt to get a product overclockers want & people still complain.

     

    Funny thing is that George is fine with calling this board retail if Hwbot opens a webshop. That changes nothing about how this board came to be, but supposedly fixes his concern. Don't know what's different from buying it from a webshop or a group buy like this. Seems needless nitpicking to me.

     

    For me this discussion has no meaning anymore.

     

    As if it had one to begin with.

    I do agree with other stuff you said about Gigabyte & hope you get that sub removed. ;)

    Is the GIGABYTE Z170-SOC Force LN2 Retail or ES?

    in Benchmark Rules

    Posted

    I just tried to break his message down to smaller parts so I can address them separately.

     

    How is this a specific group..?

     

    Anyone can join in on this group big they wish to. Doenst matter if you are a gamer on OCN or an extreme overclocker. The only thing you need to do to be a part of this "specific group" is to go ahead & say that you want to buy one, if & when Hwbot gets the group buy to work. No one is being told that he can't buy it. In fact, the more the merrier because we need more orders for the buy to actually happen & happen at a good price.

     

    The only thing insider about this buy is that we can get a board that Gigabyte wasn't ready to make because they don't see enough demand for it.

    Is the GIGABYTE Z170-SOC Force LN2 Retail or ES?

    in Benchmark Rules

    Posted

    SOC-LN2. Seller = Gigabyte. Where = Retail

    G.Skill limited ram sets. Seller = Newegg. Retail.

    AsRock M-OCF. Used here by specific ELITE members until it became a retail product.

     

    Are you suggesting that its an ES because Gigabyte is the seller..? Isn't it being re-sold by Hwbot....?

     

    To me, an ES is something that specifically engineered to be superior to retail stuff & you cannot get it even if you wanted to. Because it is only being handed out to a select few.

     

    If this group buy goes through, the second condition won't be satisfied, which makes it not ES, in my opinion.

     

    Who in the name of Heaven referred to discontinued RETAIL products ?

     

    This here

     

    Supposedly, this group-buy goes thru.

    And what if after the group-buy someone wants to buy it ?

    Will it be possible ?

    Retail means I can find the product at a shop or web shop.

     

    To me, the only worthwhile argument against this being called retail is the fact that you cannot buy it at a later stage. But that opens another can of worms as i said.

     

    What is it you do not understand folks ?

     

    That its an ES because its not being sold by Newegg, CaseKing, OCUK,etc etc.

     

    That is a very bad argument.

    Is the GIGABYTE Z170-SOC Force LN2 Retail or ES?

    in Benchmark Rules

    Posted · Edited by rtsurfer

    Folks, sorry for insisting, but rules can't be interpreted as we ( or others ) like.

    Supposedly, this group-buy goes thru.

    And what if after the group-buy someone wants to buy it ?

    Will it be possible ?

    Retail means I can find the product at a shop or web shop.

    Retail is not an one off group-buy directly from the factory, because someone can pull the right strings.

     

    Unless HWBOT decides to become a web-shop.

    Then certainly things would be different.

     

    There have been limited run things before, Z97 SOC Ln2 board comes to mind, which isn't considered an ES.

     

    Limited run != ES

     

    If you missed out on buying it when it was available, than how is it the manufacturer's fault.?

     

    A teammate bought a Gskill B-die kit @ launch, from Newegg. Gskill then choose not to ever release another kit with the same spec. Does that make it ES..? It was bought through retail channels without any special preferential treatment. He just got lucky, nothing else.

     

     

    By you guys' definition, every discontinued product would become an ES. Have you thought of that..?

     

    Edit:- I agree with you that its not this black & white. But I still don't think it should be an ES.

    Who is charge of league placement?

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted · Edited by rtsurfer

    There is a picture of a rig in this competition that you can clearly see a liquid nitrogen or similar cooling canister. its funny how its from the team that wins every rookie rumble and novice nimble every time. And by a significant margin i might add

     

    Teams can't win a rookie rumble since it's an individual effort event. ;)

    Interest-check: Group purchase Z270X LN2 board

    in Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake (-X) (Z170/Z270/Z370/X299) OC

    Posted · Edited by rtsurfer

    On the topic of "I get it if it's cheap", I'd like to make an additional note: with order quantities as low as 100-1000 units with shipments worldwide, I don't think it's good to expect a "really low price" for limited edition boards like the LN2 board.

     

    I figured it wouldn't be that cheap, but a man can dream. :D

     

    Speaking of cheap though, as per my understanding, part of the reason regular SOC Force is so expensive is that because it has PLX chip & heatsink has inbuilt water cooling functionality.

     

    We know water cooling won't be there for the ln2 version. Should we also get rid of the PLX chip (if its not gone already)? PLX chips are very expensive (so i've heard) & no bencher is running 4-way on Z170/Z270, so getting rid of it should help us bring the cost down even more. Max we need is 2-way for Legacies. No point in having more than 2 slots on the board.

     

    Count me in. Would have to know rough estimate of cost savings with/without warranty to make decision on that. I mean if it saves $5 I would think everyone would want warranty, but if it saves $50 then maybe not.

     

    Good Point.

    stivut - Core i7 6700K @ 4990MHz - 1800 marks XTU

    in Result Discussions

    Posted · Edited by rtsurfer

    Nice edit. :D

     

    3778 C11 is the same as 3600C12...?

    Some people also had 1825 marks with 5G Tweaker challenge, we should bring those scores back too.

     

    I have no vendetta against stivut, but 5G core & 4.8G issh uncore with low mem speeds has been a characteristic that has shown up in several bugged runs. I'm just pointing out that this result is falling in line with other bugged results. Just because the submitted score doenst have a huge discrepancy, doenst make it legit. He could've had other results that were more significantly out of line & choose to submit the one that looks the most realistic while still being a good score. That can happen.

     

    This discussion wouldn't even be happening if this wasn't a broken bench, but that's a issue best not brought up here. ;)

     

     

     

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

    Buying binned HW

    in Offtopic

    Posted

    I think they used to do it a while ago.

     

    Newegg returns have really tightened up in the recent years. Even on Non-CPU items, they charge a restocking fee, unless you have a premium account.

     

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

    Buying binned HW

    in Offtopic

    Posted

    But Allen u did the same with Roman, didnt u? i remember the post on FB when u said thanks to him for the special CPU from Caseking........so, what's wrong if the other do the same????

     

    i understand what u mean, if u buy Binned stuff from someone, and if this someone is a bencher, u will never get the best but only something looser then what they've kept for their self.....but on the market there are alot of bad chips.......if u are in america u can send them back to neweggs or anyelse, but in australia for example u can't, and u need to sell them on ebay or forum by loosing money!

     

    This again.

    I dunno why everyone in Australia thinks you can return CPUs to Newegg, but that's simply not true.

     

    Please read, this has already been addressed before

     

    Newegg doesn't take CPUs back. No matter who you are.

     

    They don't take them back, I've tried. :D

     

    Best you can do is return maybe a 3-4 CPUs to Amazon or local shop before you get kicked out.

    I hope i don't need to point out to anyone what 3-4 CPUs gets you on Skl.

     

    Edit:- Jason snipe. :D

    Buying binned HW

    in Offtopic

    Posted

    I don't see what you're getting at? Are you cut that someone sold you their 4th best cpu? If you had 20 decent, fragile chips, would you sell 19 of them?

     

    Hell, I was excited when I saw my rma chip did 6.2.

     

    You told me newegg will take back your rejects, full refund, no questions asked! Any store in Au would charge me 15% restock and only if unopened, second hand I'd loose 20-30%

     

    Newegg doesn't take CPUs back. No matter who you are.

    Buying binned HW

    in Offtopic

    Posted · Edited by rtsurfer

    Say I want to buy $700 6.5 cpu. I can buy a retail for that price and sell it for a $25-50 loss including shipping 20-25 times lol for $2100 you could do the same with 3 cpus at a time for a total around 75 different cpus tested.

     

    This doesn't include the time to do it but if you love oc is it really time or work? ;)

     

    Same goes for memory!

     

    Best part is maybe you will find the actual best CPU out there on your own!

    This can work for CPUs, but it is almost impossible to do this with memory. Because its literally impossible to get rid of the rejects.

     

    Gamers don't want to buy the high speed kits, unless you give it away for like half of the price. I can't speak for the world, but atleast in USA, until the majority of people stop buying cheapest 2133mhz DDR4, mem binning is gonna be a 50â„… loss game.

     

    CPUs are easier to sell off (at a loss of course) , but then there's that stigma against delidded chips, which is again, a USA centered problem as far as I have seen. Even after you do all that, your "best CPU" still might suck compared to others.

     

    Basically, i might be repeating what others said.

     

     

    A lot of these CPU binners you see around here, are able to sustain their "business" with profits because they never pay retail for those chips in the first place. So even the rejects are sold at a profit. If you can find a way to do that, go to town. [emoji6]

    Let's not throw around words like "fair" tho.

     

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

    ROG Maximus VIII

    in Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake (-X) (Z170/Z270/Z370/X299) OC

    Posted

    Anyone tested 0018 BIOS on Maximus VIII Gene? I haven't found noexecute=alwaysoff yet on BIOS. Any help would help my SuperPi 32M score a lot :D

    You don't need the BIOS to support no execute.

    You can do noexecute=alwaysoff as a switch in boot.ini

     

    Similar to how you do Maxmem.

     

    Edit:- That said, the newer BIOSes are supposed to have an execute disable bit, option in advance Cpu settings.

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