Tzk

? Seriously? That's the one thing i never tried in all those years... I usually just kept what the board used as default for synced FSB:Dram. Might be interesting to dump the chipset registers and to see if there are differences.

So i tested a few more cpus. My current conclusions about BCRC are: if the cpu has a minor revision of 2 or 11, then it is reported as multi locked if the cpu has a minor revision of 12 or 15, then it is reported as multi unlocked minor revision 11 is reported as Thorton w/ 512K, all other minors are reported as Barton Stepping is just a guess and mostly AQYFA or unknown Now, i added Antinomy's cpus to my list and sorted them by minor revision and week. Revision 2 has two ranges with a gap in them: 0337 - 0349 (?) and 0405 - 0411 (locked) Revision 11 was made from 0342 to 0512 (locked) Revision 12 also has two ranges with gap: 0327 - 0332 (unlocked) and 0403 - 0407 (locked) Revision 15 seems to be the oldest: 0318 - 0319 (unlocked) So i believe the timeline of the revisions is: 15 -> 12 -> 2 -> 12/2 -> 11 On german Hardwareluxx forums there is a user which states that AMD changed something inside the cpu die which makes them clock a lot better. That's why the mobiles from 0351 onwards clock so much better than older Bartons. I believe that it's the change to minor revision 11 which is to "blame" for this, although we need more cpus/data to prove this. We also need more cpus to see of the gap in revision 12 and 2 is real...

Just a thought: Wouldn't it be better if we could open that info box with a button inside the tweaker? So we don't have to close it on every tweaker launch if we want to "just" change timings. Also the frequency and FSB display is currently broken on A7N8X, right? Tweaker reports 151Mhz and Multi 11 while Cpu-Z shows the actual values (133 + 12.5x). Besides that the MSR values between BCRC and Tweaker match, well done!

Perfect. So now we can use BCRC and your tweaker to read the values. Will retest the above mentioned cpus. @Antinomy A question regarding the forums and its editor: Is there a possibility to install a plugin for the WYSIWYG editor to include tables? The table above was just copy&paste from excel, but i can't change the table width... Not sure how you did it in your post.

@Antinomy and @I.nfraR.ed shared their thoughts about superlocked cpus and cpu registers (MSR). Maybe we can identify superlocked cpus like this... They also mentioned a tool called Barton CRC (BCRC.exe). So i grabbed a few cpus and here's the result so far. Example screenshot of BCRC output: Here's the result which BCRC reported. The first columns is what i read from the cpu sticker (orange), latter ones are output of BCRC (blue). My conclusion so far is that the minor rev is rather random and the superlock plus the Crystal marker seems to be a more or less random guess. Nr Cpu Rating Stepping week Stepping ED Value CPUID Processor Code Major Minor Type Crystal Marker 11 Athlon XP 2600 AQZFA 0349 TPMW 2306h 06A0h Barton 0 2 locked AQYFA 12 Athlon XP 2600 AQXDA 0318 MPMW 2319h 06A0h Barton 0 15 unlocked unknown 13 Athlon XP 2600 AQXEA 0404 TPMW 2316h 06A0h Barton 0 12 unlocked unknown 15 Athlon XP 2600 AQYHA 0401 UPMW 2315h 06A0h Thorton w/512K 0 11 locked AQYFA 16 Athlon XP 2600 AQXEA 0403 WPMW 2316h 06A0h Barton 0 12 unlocked unknown 17 Athlon XP 2800 AQYHA 0409 SPMW 2315h 06A0h Thorton w/512K 0 11 locked AQYFA

When i started looking into romsip modding i found this post by TicTac on pcper forums. See attached screenshot for content. So yes, these are indeed multi specific settings... This made me test my FSB stability at multi 7 or 7.5. If it is stable on these multis, then it'll run on any multi. However he didn't state what these settings are actually controlling. If we can find this out (also for the upper half of the romsips), then we might be able to push the fsb further. We also hit a hard FSB wall at about 263MHz right now, on the german Hardwareluxx Forums we got about 4 or 5 boards which won't pass 32M above 263Mhz, no matter what you do. Vdd, Vcore, Multi doesn't matter, some boards do even freeze when trying to set 264/265 MHz. No clue what causes this, might be some peripheral controller or even the chipset itself acting up. broken link: https://pcper.com/forums/?346001-ROMSIP-Table-Mod-Guide#post3100010

Yes. You basically use the PCI registers of the chipset and set the desired settings via ISA or PCI option rom, right before the OS is loaded. There's two ways of doing this: a) you can just hardcode some settings b) you can write some data from modded bios settings to the CMOS register (bios settings are stored here) and load these cmos values from the option rom. This way you can add additional bios settings without hacking the whole bios. We did this on at least 3 or 4 boards (a7n8x-E, a7n8x v2.0, Abit, Epox?) and it works great. the cleanest solution would be to reverse engineer the bios and add those options in a native way. However i've already spend a bunch of hours looking into this on my A7N8X and even comparing different bios versions hasn't got me anywhere. Luckily Asus made 2 bios versions where each introduced a new bios setting, so the changes inside the code are clearly visible. However it looks like the hex strings which are used to define the bios items and the code which is controlled by them are stored right next to each other. So if there's an option added, then some offsets and pointers will break and the bios won't work anymore. My conclusion was that if we ever want to add completely new options into the bios which don't "recycle" unused bios items, then it's a ton of work. That's the point where i gave up... It's probably better to spend more time upon improving and understanding the romsips first.

I'd like to add that there's actually two types of nvidia specific code for the ram controller inside the bios, depending on the board and (maybe?) chipset revision. We got NVDAMC and NVMM. NVDAMC is the memory controller firmware up to version 3.19. Nvidia then renamed it to NVMM and introduced version 4.x. Note that these versions are not compatible with each other. So if a board runs on 3.x (examples are Abit NF7, DFI Infinity/LP B, A7N8X), then you can't update to 4.x. Board won't boot. Some newer MSI boards (K7N2?) run on NVMM 4.35 and obviously won't boot on 3.19. I see no reason to use an older version than 3.19. It's the latest available NVDAMC version before NVMM got introduced and runs great in terms of stability and performance. Also note that the NVMM versions (ex: v4.62) extracted from Intel Nforce boards won't work on any socket 462 board. At least that was the conclusion when we tried it in the past. --- If you want to swap the BPL, you can do it with a regular hex editor as it isn't LZH compressed. Thus you don't need modbin to compress it and calculate the checksum.

Yep. Looks like 3DM03 can be run on 939 AGP (for ex. NF3 250) and even native 479 boards. That opens up a lot of possibilities.

Currently there's no restriction on the AM3 stage. I guess those have been left out by accident?

My guess is that we‘re getting some vdimm drop on the sticks which results in a lower(ed) vtt voltage requirement. Ive still to try the newer mods, i havent got any decent dso or analog scope to measure ripple and thus i can‘t test those new mods myself yet...

@TerraRaptor Yes it is. Atlan1980 (member of hardwareluxx.de) reworked the whole Vdimm feedback loop and developed a Vtt mod for the Asus board. He introduced smaller resistors for the FB loop, swapped the mosfets and coils in the Vdimm regulator and removed a cap in the feedback loop which basically eliminated the Vdimm drop under load. We're now at <50mV drop under load at high vcore. I haven't tried it myself, but it looks like we can push much further now, even with TCCDs. @digitalbath managed to pass a 260Mhz 32M run with 2x512mb TCCDs Link, have a look at the attached PDF on this post: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/amd-sockel-a.584473/page-109#post-27664417

Yes. I got a A7N8X-E Deluxe which won't run 210Mhz fsb without voltmods. The silicon quality seems to fluctuate a lot... With mod it can't reach 220Mhz. Must be the worst -E Deluxe ever made.

I've run Geil Ultra-X (2x512mb TCCDs) at 250MHz 3-3-3 1T on NF2 through 32M The A7N8X doesn't seem to like CL2.5 with Merlin Romsips... I've had 2.5-3-3 250MHz 24/7 stable on DFI Infinity years ago. It's achievable for sure Booting them above that isn't an issue, but getting it stable enoughfor 32M is... TCCDs are very picky and the NF2 just doesn't like them at all.

I got Rev. F TCCDs with production date of week 42 2005, so there were newer chips made. However my Geil Ultra-X (unknown date, probably 2004) are by far better. The Corsair 3200XL v1.2s can't even reach their spec on Socket A (250MHz 2.3-3-3) but fail to pass 240Mhz 3-3-3. That's disappointing für TCCDs. The Ultra-X at least reach 250Mhz 2.5-3-3 primestable. I guess the NF2 just isn't doing well with these Samsung chips. Same for 1gb Infineon CE-6 sticks and 512mb singlerank. Those fail to pass 210Mhz on my NF2 boards, regardless of voltage and timings. However 256mb Infineon BT-5 ( Corsair 3200C2PT v4.x) reach 250MHz 3-3-3-8 without issues. The Nforce is indeed quite picky when it comes to certain ram chips. Winbond works incedibly well, Hynix too. Haven't tried Micron or some other type of Infineon yet.

Yep, i've only seen up to D Revision sticks in the wild. I still want to try some Hynix D5's on NF2 or at least higher binned sticks. Maybe 2.5-3-3 is possible at 260MHz+ if the board is capable. However even Infineon made D Revision Chips (DE-5) which are quite unknown. Same as Samsung ZCCC (BGA) or Qimonda CF-5 (also BGA).

Hynix got at least 3 different revisions (BT, CT and dt), two densities (256mbit and 512mbit), lead free packages (for example DTP-D43). I tested 256mbit BT-D43 and DT-D43 in nforce 2, all sticks were 256mb singlerank. The BT-D43 were able to pass 32M 3-4-4 at 257mhz (chipset limit) and the DT-D43 did 250 2.5-3-3 but failed above 255mhz, regardless of voltage or Timings. All sticks were genuine hynix so no binning, just four random 256mb sticks. All four Sticks passed 200mhz 2.5-3-2, cant remember If cl2 was possible. Trcd 2 however didnt post. I've yet to try better hynix sticks like OCZ on NF2. Afaik OCZ made DDR500+ Hynix sticks. All in all Hynix seems to run well on NF2 and does achieve similar results to TCCDs. However TCCD is a nightmare on NF2 at 250MHz+...

It can't be winbond as those haven't got enough density. Winbond is 512mb doublesided only. That leaves us with the usual suspects: Samsung, Hynix, Micron, Nanya, Mosel, Infineon and Promos. UCCC got 6 dots and usually doesn't run at 2-2-2 -> no UCCC Micron hasn't got a straight edge -> no micron That leaves us with Infineon, Mosel, Nanya, Promos and Hynix. Maybe you can compare with the chips listed here: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/der-ddr1-ram-chip-thread.1244468 Just make sure to compare with similar chips (density!) as for example Samsungs 256mbit and 512mbit chips (TCCD and UCCC) look way different. My guess is that it's either extremely well binned Infineon (unlikely) or Nanya/Promos/Mosel. I don't think Hynix D5 can handle Trcd = 2 at 200Mhz.

There are mods for v1.x: http://bierbude.spdns.org:2302/Mod-BIOS und mehr/Asus/ Just be aware that the 1.x boards use the old (non Ultra 400) NF2 chipset. I'd expect about 220Mhz fsb at max. If you want 230Mhz++ then you have to go for v2.x. It's the same as with Abit NF7 v1.x and v2.x. Personally i'd use the Trats bios as it got DFI romsips and a newer sata rom included. For A7N8X-E i'd go for the digitalbath bios with ED, ED55 or EBED romsips anytime: http://bierbude.spdns.org:2302/USER UPLOADS/digitalbath/ASUS A7N8X-E/ And for the regular v2.x Deluxe i'd use: http://bierbude.spdns.org:2302/USER UPLOADS/Tzk/Asus/A7N8X Deluxe v2.0/ I haven't uploaded my latest bios for the regular Deluxe yet. I added a few other options which digitalbath already included in his -E bios. Still all bios versios are able to hit 260Mhz+ if the boards chipset can handle it.

It isn't a big deal, i just noticed it and thought i'd point it out. That's why i posted it as a question and not as accusation @4n0nym0u5b3nch3r Well, the -X is singlechannel. As long as we can't make DC work that board isn't interesting at all. At least for benching. SC will give you a disadvantage in 32M and for valids the NF7 is wayyy more interesting, because 2.25V Vcore. And the -X doesn't even have SATA... I own two of these myself and still got to test if we can mod dualchannel into it or if nvidia somehow blocked it inside the chipset on silicon level.

@Mr.Scott Could you give credit to @digitalbath when posting Vmods for the K7NF2? Also that "crap board" does 260Mhz+ 32M... https://warp9-systems.proboards.com/thread/1327/asrock-k7nf2-raid-mods?page=1&scrollTo=39936 https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/amd-sockel-a.584473/page-99#post-27560667 Maybe the K7NF2 does also work with the 12V rail mod... Actually it's not that crappy as one might think.

I forgot to add a bit of interesting information to the Promos/Winbond/Infineon discussion: Promos was a JointVenture of Infineon and MoselVitelic. Afaik the deal was that Infineon grants ProMos access to its interlectual property and patents, but promos has to sell its chips through infineon (so Promos -> Infineon -> any 3rd party). Instead Promos started selling directly to Mosel Vitelic which then resulted in a termination of the joint venture. Infineon even sued Mosel Vitelic and Promos for contract violations back then. Here's the source for that (sadly in german, sorry!): Link 1: https://www.infineon.com/cms/de/about-infineon/press/market-news/2003/128273.html Link 2: https://www.infineon.com/cms/de/about-infineon/press/press-releases/2002/128489.html So I think it's no coincidence that some Promos Chips look like Infineon/Winbond. Afaik Infineon and Winbond also hat a licensing and/or manufacturing agreement and the AT-6 chips are the result of that. However i'm not sure if infineon manufactured these for winbond or vice-versa. Still Promos/Infineon and Winbond/Infineon had close ties around the year 2000.

I got 3 sticks of Corsair 3200C2 with CH-5, the best stick reaches 255Mhz at 3.5xV (as usual more doesn't help on CH) on my NF2 setup. My 6A sticks are better, the best pair is able to pass 32M at 257Mhz and 3.45V. Raising the VDimm to 3.6V gives me 261Mhz on the best stick and 259Mhz on the 2nd. However that might be the limit of my chipset and Vdimm regulators, not the ram itself. That's why i prefer 6A over CH. Sadly i don't own genuine BH sticks to test with. The PLCC32 512K chips i am using on my A7N8X Boars are these: PM49FL004T-33JCE

Yes, i know that. However this is a somewhat rare stick you got there. Usually BT-6 sticks are "real" Infineon. You can easily spot those by the 9 in the part number. Only relabeled infineon chips got it directly in front of the BT/AT on the part number. All "real" infineon sticks got a zero, AT and your BT got a nine. Regarding the FireRAM: I wrote a PM to auto660 here on the forums, but never got a response. Not sure if he just forgot to answer or didn't want to... Still there are some people on the german hardwareluxx forums which are interested in purchasing one, of course depending on the costs. @Mr.Scott We investigated a lot of chips by their physical apperance. Infineon AT got the same metal fins sticking out of the short side of the chip as winbond. All other infineon chips look way different. AT-6 also got the same two round markings on them. AT chips won't boot at CL3, just like Winbond BH. Also Infineon got a joint venture with winbond back when AT chips were produced. AT-6 is Winbond BH, there's no other explanation. I started a thread with a lot of detail pictures of ddr1 ram chips on the german hardwareluxx forums. You can compare a lot of chips over there: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/der-ddr1-ram-chip-thread.1244468/ The user @stunned_guy even compared 130 infineon sticks and documented his findings: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/der-ddr1-ram-chip-thread.1244468/page-40#post-27537381

I‘m not sure. I used a chip from the deluxe. It should work though. If that helps, i can post the part number of the chips that i use. Will do that later.