Sudden loss of points

[ViNsTeR777]

is it that my scores got beat? or is there a bug

i thought the 12600k was a 10 core cpu not a 6 core

does this mean if i enter a 16 core cpu with 10 cores disabled that it counts  as a 6 core cpu?

 

[Fasttrack]

Don't bother mate.

I lost overnight 200 career points and 80 career places.

All reviewers consider ( and test ) 12900K as a 16 core cpu and 12600K as a 12 core cpu.

As they are advertised and sold by Intel.

Hwbot has a different opinion.

More than 350 subs under Dice with genuine 6 and 8 core cpus zeroed.

Well, who cares, lol.

I was looking for a reason to stop buying expensive HW. And benching them.

Aloha, hahaha.

[ViNsTeR777]

i guess this kinda kills off HWBOT as a valid verification site

such a shame that its come to this

i guess some one got a back hander from intel 

10 cores aint 6 cores this is a farce 

[Fasttrack]

Seems that nowdays there is no objective way of evaluating things.

If you THINK that it is an 8 core, then it is an 8 core. Illusionary way of looking at simple mathematics.

Hwbot is happy, Intel is happy, 500 normal ( not elite and funded ) members are unhappy.

[ViNsTeR777]

the worse of it is that i cant even see in the points tab on profile where i lost points as there is no post for it

 

[Leeghoofd]

You loose points, I loose points,  unless you bench the newest architecture.

It's always like this and will be the same again soon when AMD releases their oomphed Ryzens. Rankings will shift once more and this will happen over and over again. Hardware is released at a way higher pace than before, where it was more common for a release like once a year. Nowadays we have 2-3 times a serious performance gain. Neverending story...

Hence why I only bench for hardware masters. Hardware points stay, globals and such not...

[ViNsTeR777]

surely an advertised cpu should be listed as advertised  

so could i turn 2 cores off a 5800X and call it a 5600X

12th gen is unique so im finding hard to understand why its competing with true core count cpus

yeah once every cpu is of this kind then i could understand 

it seems like intel are getting special treatment regarding this, it was only a few years ago they were saying that bench scores dont really count but now they have managed to have the goal posts move so they can win again

looks like the only way to compete is to buy the 12th gen

its sad as ive only been learning and posting since April but now my moral score is low

[Fasttrack]

I did not observe Alby any serious reviewer anywhere refering to these cpus as 8+8 or 6+6. The products are advertised and sold by Intel as 16 and 12 core processors.

Guru3d made comparisons with 5900X and 5950X.

Both single core and multi.

I am not exactly sure how and why this whole thing evolved. It is not my business.

But my ears hear a lot of angry voices and laughters.

Anyway, ee are all guests here, so our opinion does not carry any significant weight  if any.

[Leeghoofd]

Well Team Red might also go into the same direction, so we took the opportunity to give it a try out. Point system needs to be looked at as the user can get double points now , so that needs to be looked at. Also there will be a lot of weird core/thread releases in the near future so the chosen path by HWBot might make more sense in half a year from now.

Also it seems to be forgotten that the P and E cores are pretty different in clocks and architecture.  6.8Ghz on P (15% IPC gain vs RL) and 5.5 on E cores (SL performance).  So its a bit different than just disabling cores as you proposed and to sub in 1 -2-4-6-8 core with the same CPU.... that would be the death to the verification purpose right ?

The thing is you can make this hobby as expensive as you want, if you want to maintain high in the ranking, you will need to follow each trend and buy the latest and greatest. This always has been the case and will not change no matter which path we picked. The new upcoming AMDs will also thrash your current scores and AM5 will do it again. I guess you notice the pattern.

I always went for 2D hardware masters, as I don't want to buy and LN2 cool 1K GPUs to maintain my ranking.

Review sites, I only respect a few as most don't even test properly or are just testing what the manufacturer tells them to do. 

 

Anway we are not about best performance for the buck, we want higher scores and last but not least Intel was not the thriving factor for our double database decision.

 

[ViNsTeR777]

https://hwbot.org/hardware/processors#key=core_i5_12000_series

this link shows the same chip listed as 6 core and a 10

which is it? both?

[Leeghoofd]

Only the 12600K has E cores, the regular 12600 doesn't, so the 12600K gets listed as 10 core and once as a 6P core.

[ViNsTeR777]

I think this is broken from the get go and all 12th gen scores should be band or it gets it own 'unique' category to go along with it uniqueness

 

[ViNsTeR777]

LGA1700	Core i5 12600K	x86-64 (64bit CISC)	3700MHz	125 Watt	10x Alder Lake-S	n/a	0 submissions	Reviews
LGA1700	Core i5 12600K (6P)	x86-64 (64bit CISC)	3700MHz	125 Watt	6x Alder Lake-S	n/a	0 submissions	Reviews
LGA1700	Core i5 12600KF	x86-64 (64bit CISC)	3700MHz	125 Watt	10x Alder Lake-S	n/a	3 submissions	Reviews
LGA1700	Core i5 12600KF (6P)	x86-64 (64bit CISC)	3700MHz	125 Watt	6x Alder Lake-S	n/a	5 submissions	Reviews

[Leeghoofd]

Thats how it is configured.  Already looked at the number of threads ?

This uniqueness is the new era we are just entering....

[Fasttrack]

Anandech, tom's hw, guru3d are some of the most respected sites worldwide.

Their readers ( millions ) do not care about  LN2 benching.

Do you really want us to believe that both Intel and Amd care about a couple of thousand crazy maniacs who bench, lol.

No, they care about billions of gamers. That is their market target.

[Leeghoofd]

So you replied yourself to a previous statement in the thread by the OP if this split-up was Intel driven.... nope it was not.

It is really just more than cores guys but I understand your perspective on things and the decision we took to give it a try-out

[ViNsTeR777]

It just seem like if you turn off cores you can make a 16 core a dual or a quad core and enter it in a dual or quad category

when is a 10 core not a 10 core?

when its a 6P core 

 

[Leeghoofd]

With this technolgy you can disable the E cores and then it depends on how the CPU is configured, for 12600K its 6P+4E= 10 but its 16 threads :p.

12600K(6P) is the 12600K with the 4 E cores disabled

You are NOT disabling the same cores on this architecture as you are suggesting. This is the same logic when disabling half of the 5950X to make it eg an 8 core, they are the same cores that ones disables. This is the big difference between previous gens or smartphones that use this tech already for a long time. You can now overclock them all and disable them.

[ViNsTeR777]

https://hwbot.org/submission/4846793_safedisk_cinebench___r20_core_i5_12600kf_10100_cb

this is the same chip

https://hwbot.org/submission/4846778_safedisk_cinebench___r20_core_i5_12600kf_(6p)_8011_cb

how can this be a thing?

same chip listed gets 2 categories thus double points

which is it a 10 core a 6 core or both

im sure you must understand my confusion as this make no sense at all  

[Leeghoofd]

It is both, you get twice the fun with one chip.

Compare it with the unlockable AMD CPUs on AM3.  You bought a dual core and you could bench it in the dual, triple and even 4 core ranking (if you got a good CPU)  if it unlocked the cores. So this is not really new, same with AMD GPUs where you could unlock the shaders, they were also dual submittable...

Maybe have a watch at UnityOC's comment on the splitup (around 1h and 5 minutes mark), hits one of HWbot's objectives spot on with Alder Lake.

[ViNsTeR777]

Id say there is a big difference from flashing gpu's and unlocking locked cores from a 3 core sku to just flicking a switch to disable a feature that makes it a lesser thing

so because there is separation in 12th gen bios to disable both E-P cores individually that makes it fair 

its the same piece of silicone

could i disable a core from a Pentium D to enter it into at single core category? as its 2 single cores on one chip 

just feels wrong to me it should be either or

 

[Leeghoofd]

What is the name of each core on your Pentium D?

Is core 1 running at the same clocks as core 2?

Can you OC these Pentium D cores individually?

Are both Pentium D cores based on the same technology?

Do both Pentium D cores have the same amount of threads?

Do both Pentium D cores share the same cache?

 

Think about the fact: Would these CPUs sell if Intel labelled the 12900K as an 8 core CPU and that retails between the AMD 5900X and a 5950X? they labelled it as a 16 core while it is not really a TRUE 16 core. AMD made the same PR stunt with their Bulldozer, Vishera (although these were not as performant or competitive as Intel's AL is now) Over a decade ago users bought CPUs based on the MHz, now they buy them based on the amount of E-peen cores...   Summary: Cores sell

 

Last line on this matter: There's more to these CPUs than just adding up the cores. But I guess you will not find that an acceptable answer.  Your points would drop anyway within a few months thanks to AMD's newest offering. So the thread you started is a few months ahead of what is inbound

 

Leeghoofd out.

[Fasttrack]

21 hours ago, ViNsTeR777 said:

Id say there is a big difference from flashing gpu's and unlocking locked cores from a 3 core sku to just flicking a switch to disable a feature that makes it a lesser thing

so because there is separation in 12th gen bios to disable both E-P cores individually that makes it fair 

its the same piece of silicone

could i disable a core from a Pentium D to enter it into at single core category? as its 2 single cores on one chip 

just feels wrong to me it should be either or

 

Let it go. Meaningless discussion.

Let's see where all this leads.

Although I suspect that 30 members max will be left kicking each other's ass.

As though any of them has ever paid a dime for their HW.

I am out either way.

During those 11 years here I have felt like a beaten dog multiple times.

I do not need more.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Fasttrack

[speed.fastest]

2 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

You loose points, I loose points,  unless you bench the newest architecture.

It's always like this and will be the same again soon when AMD releases their oomphed Ryzens. Rankings will shift once more and this will happen over and over again. Hardware is released at a way higher pace than before, where it was more common for a release like once a year. Nowadays we have 2-3 times a serious performance gain. Neverending story...

Hence why I only bench for hardware masters. Hardware points stay, globals and such not...

With 12900K as 16c only category, and 12600K 10c only category, people have less point drop overnight than 12900K as 8C and 12600K as 6C. Sure next gen will have a lot more cores but why force to kill older cpu points? 12900K vs 5800X and 12600K vs 5600X doesnt seem fair at all.

Edited November 5, 2021 by speed.fastest

[Guest hammertone]

Bot latest points algorithm. You saw this with latest Ryzen as it dropped Intel scores

IPC strong 12th gen so it will do it again. Go look discussions on 70% points cliff this hwbot revision.

That is the punishment. Not new architecture.