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Kal-EL

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Posts posted by Kal-EL

    Hardware sharing- by people who should know better

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted

    Hm. Okay. I think I was talking about the situation where you'd be lending hardware. Anyways, selling is allowed; selling to screw over your fellow overclockers in the hwbot ranking is not allowed.

     

    Or: be responsible.

     

     

     

    The governing body that overseas rule enforcement and applications = HWBOT moderating staff :).

     

    I'm not totally against the idea of having team moderators involved in the ruling process, but I not confident that this will actually lead to a better overclocking environment.

     

    First of all, we have a staff of moderators to ensure that whoever is moderating is not doing it because of personal/team objectives, but to keep HWBOT clean. In theory, having team moderators involved is cool, but it also opens a gate for teams to vote for removal of scores only for their own benefit.

     

    Secondly, I'm strongly of the opinion that responsibility comes before rules. This meaning that the rules are there as guidelines, but in the end each individual has to stand up for his own behavior. If we change our policy from 'act responsible' to 'act within the rules', we could end up in situations where lawyers sue HWBOT for removing a result.

     

    Thirdly, I would much more like to invest time in setting up a structure for live overclocking events rather than improving online rules and regulations. GIGABYTE and MSI are already at a stage where they organize live overclocking competitions to serve the community, but I would really love to see HQ push the local offices even more to organize smaller live overclocking competitions within the local community and give those comps a place on hwbot.

     

    Can you please elaborate on how this governing body would make HWBOT better? And by better I mean: less cheaters, but also not making it extremely complex and slow. We want to remove cheaters, but not by making the validation process 10x longer.

     

    How would a governing body create less cheaters without making it complex and slow in addtion to the extending the length of the validation process?

     

    It was more focussed at confidence. Giving the members a proper channel with which they could be confident that their concerns and complaints were being properly heard, discussed, evaluated and weighted.

     

    But in the scenario above where rule enforcement is based on a preponderance of evidence instead of infallable facts, hwbot moderators could take swifter action against suspected cheaters thereby becoming a deterrent to any future cheaters.

     

    Instead of focussing in on the detection process, we decrease our normal requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt down into say Reasonable Suspicion or as low as just a preponderance of evidence.

     

    Again, a ruling based on a mere preponderance of evidence would result in progressive punishment, e.g. warning w/removal, suspension w/removal, suspension +1 w/removal, suspension +2 w/removal, Total Ban.

     

    In situations where the cheat is discovered by the uncovering of infallabe facts and evidence, punishment would be immediately harsher.

     

    Basically its about perception and digestion.

     

    Implementing this more stringent hardline approach to moderating members could be viewed as arbitrary and dictorial. But if in instances where controversy ensues and a team captain, after discussing the matter with his team, feels an injustice has occurred, he/she could bring the matter before this body. Sort of a structured appeal process whereby this body of team captains discuss the issue and formulate a final decision. Basically judged by a jury of his/her peers.

     

    This is of course assuming that the Team Captains are reasonable people and could apply the question "Would a reasonable and experienced overclocker believe that based on the set of facts and circumstances that this member is cheating"

     

    Basically, I was trying to accomplish a few things at once:

     

    1- Find a balanced and reasonable approach to cheat deterrance.

    2- Remove any perception that the membership is helpless to effect change.

    3- Create more confidence that "Fair Play" exists in this online environment.

    4- Create more "Buy In" from the teams and their captains. The more they feel a part of hwbot, the more likely they will endeavor to preserve the integrity of the bot.

     

    Regarding the local offices and live events, when that comes to fruition it'll be great for the locals that have local offices. There are a few of us that don't have local offices.

     

    I can see where empowering the people may prove a headache for business side of things but seeing as you sink or swim based on community involvement, it only makes sense to try and create that buy in and ensure confidence in it's Integrity.

    Hardware sharing- by people who should know better

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted

    Quote me where I did. Seriously ... I don't know when I said that.

     

    What I don't understand is how people could sell good samples to team mates WITHOUT having 'more points' as motivation. Any good hardware I get at my place, I hold onto so closely so that I'm sure it won't get killed. :D

     

    The other alternative is making team point attributions so tight that it's just one score that contributes to the team's total. One guy has a 6.5G 980X, no other person will be able to contribute to the team's total. I'm sure this is what no one wants.

     

    Any other suggestion is welcome. Do note ... we will certainly not require anyone to make photo/video verification. The idea behind hwbot is to make overclocking enjoyable, which means more focus on clocking, less focus on ruling.

    Hey, obviously, its gonna be an ongoing evolution.

     

    Our conversation was via pm but it really doesn't matter now does it? The magic marker rule book is ever revolving. Since you don't remember:

    Of course that would be illegal under the hardware sharing rules. The whole point of the hardware sharing rules is that people within one team do not use the same hardware to get more points.

     

    If I have a golden 7.4GHz Clarkdale at my home, how would you feel when I lend it to my team mates? Top-20 in hands of Madshrimps ...

     

    BR,

     

    Pieter.

    And here is Fredericks PM response:

    Hi kal el,

     

    that's not permitted. For the crew, we would not see a difference between selling/sharing or lending hardware between team members. So if you sell or rent hardware, it better be to people not belonging to your own team...

     

    Sorry about the harsh rule.

     

    Frederik

     

    Fred

     

    This was on February 14. 2010.

     

    Moving on. Now that I've pee'd in the fan, I'd like to make a suggestion about how we deal with the rules. Since we're in an Internet environment unlike pro sports on t.v. or on the futball field where they can be enforced based on factual evidence, how about we take a more subjective stance on the rules. Instead of hard facts or straight confessions, we use a preponderance of evidence to make determinations of innocence or guilt. To make it even handed, since we're uniquely on the internet, the consequences should be very progressive in cases based on a preponderance of evidence and severe in cases of blatant violations disovered by infallable evidence.

     

    Chuchnit suggested formulating a governing body that would oversea rule enforcement and applications. They would evaluate high profile cases or contreversial cases and come to an agreement. This body could be made up of a bunch of Team Captains. They could discuss and represent their teams interests in regards to rule changes and evolution of this sport.

     

    Fricken HOliday Inn Action.

    Hardware sharing- by people who should know better

    in Submission & member moderation

    Posted

    I asked for clarification on this in February and both you and Frederick said it was not allowed, period. In fact, you told me how would I feel if I had a 7ghz chip and passed it to another team member.

     

    RB clarified the rules as:

    " For the crew, we would not see a difference between selling/sharing or lending hardware between team members. So if you sell or rent hardware, it better be to people not belonging to your own team...

     

    Sorry about the harsh rule.

    "

    I took this information back to my Team and told them it was strictly forbiden to sell hardware to another Team Mate.

     

    Now you tell me its never changed and always been like this. Salty. A little more consistency with the rules would be much appreciated.

    NVIDIA GTX 480 Voltage Modifications

    in Nvidia GPU Overclocking

    Posted

    You can disable OCP via software ( flash the CHL8266 controller with a modified firmware which disables OVP & OCP ) [ you still need to do the MEM OCP mod, this disables the OCP for the GPU core only ].

    No need to run GPU-z and co, just flash the CHL8266 once and you're done forever :)

     

    You'll find the necessary files and instructions in the linked RAR archive file:

     

    CHiL 8266 Disabled OCP Firmware - Download from BenchZone

    CHiL 8266 Disabled OCP Firmware - Download from RapidShare

     

    Updated the first post too.

    Nice, thx bz :celebration:

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