single gpu benching

[K404]

Damn. I wish more of this was fool+cheat proof

[knopflerbruce]

Perhaps we need to split dual cores form quads, too. A decent quad cost a fortune these days. Perhaps we need to split by sockets as well, 1366 is far too expensive for normal people...

 

[K404]

Id really like to see multi CPU split from single IE...2P,4P, 8P and even the 3P if AMD ever sent them to production...

 

Im not sure if that kind of comparison is a good one though knopfler..... how long until some of the CPU benches can be processed on GPU? Would people want SPi, wP ranked globally or split into CPU and GPU-based?

[bazx]

back on topic

 

14 month ago i could bench a single GPU card and be ranked in the top ten

 

today if i bench a single gpu 280gtx in vantage the highest position i can achieve is 119th which is (second for the card so a good score) and receive 6 points

 

all the cards in front of me are hybrids

 

3DMark Vantage - Performance - 16389 marks - bazx (Bench Tec UK) 18.1 points - [ inspect ]

Processor: Core i7 Extreme 965 @ 4788mhz on LN2 [ view screenshot ]

Videocard: GeForce GTX 280 @ 900/1100mhz [#2 GeForce GTX 280 in 3DMark Vantage - Performance] on LN2

Motherboard: X58

Global Rank: 119th - 6.2 points

Hardware Rank: 2nd GeForce GTX 280 - 11.9 points

Description: no description

Verfication: verification link screenshot

Scan date: 31-12-2008 09:38

 

 

benching hybrids is not only more expensive around 30% more for the card but 250$ for another pot as you either need 2x pots with ATI or with nvidia a new pot that fits the new configuration every time they bring out a new hybrid card

and 2x the ln2

 

 

benching a 280gtx or 4870 single (GPU) is by far the cheapest and easiest way to take part in global rankings

 

it may well be very difficult to setup a new group for hybrids or single GPU

 

but i see no other way these cards may share a single slot but they do not share the same performance by a long way

 

how can i compete when the closest i can get it 119th to the top ten

Edited February 20, 2009 by bazx

[knopflerbruce]

back on topic

 

14 month ago i could bench a single GPU card and be ranked in the top ten

 

today if i bench a single gpu 280gtx in vantage the highest position i can achieve is 119th which is (second for the card so a good score) and receive 6 points

 

all the cards in front of me are hybrids

 

 

 

 

benching hybrids is not only more expensive around 30% more for the card but 250$ for another pot as you either need 2x pots with ATI or with nvidia a new pot that fits the new configuration every time they bring out a new hybrid card

and 2x the ln2

 

 

benching a 280gtx or 4870 single (GPU) is by far the cheapest and easiest way to take part in global rankings

 

it may well be very difficult to setup a new group for hybrids or single GPU

 

but i see no other way these cards may share a single slot but they do not share the same performance by a long way

 

how can i compete when the closest i can get it 119th to the top ten

 

You should ask yourself what you paid for those cards, not whether they are hybrids or not.

[bazx]

dude if you have nothing to say connected with the topic

 

then keep it to your self

[knopflerbruce]

dude if you have nothing to say connected with the topic

 

then keep it to your self

 

You use COST as an argument to split up the rankings, and I'm sure you see the relevance - you just don't want to admit that the GPU cost today is actually less than it used to be only 2-3 years ago.

[sacha35]

You use COST as an argument to split up the rankings, and I'm sure you see the relevance - you just don't want to admit that the GPU cost today is actually less than it used to be only 2-3 years ago.

 

I think what Bazx is trying to say is every year we have new single GPU cards and duel GPu cards hit the market ready for us all to buy, the problem is that the sales of single core GPU’s are not worth benching due to the points allocation that they are being rewarded with, who in the right mind would spend hard earned cash on something that cannot compete with the duel GPU cards.

 

The same amount of work still has to go into benching both types of cards, LN2 pots granted you would need two for the Multy GPU cards so extra expense there but the same amount of work would still be involved in running all the benches just to receive a few hardware points unlike the Duel GPU cards that run so much faster than the single core GPU cards.

 

I think this is a bad move personally as it will reduce the amount of single GPU cards within our market; also it reduces the amount of honest benchers out there that would be able to compete on an even playing filed not run by who has the biggest pockets.

I still think we need to show the world what are the fastest platforms but I also think we should show the world what can be done with middle of the range hardware as well.

[bazx]

why is it you are so resistant to a single GPU 3D class jmke?

 

you would need to be blind not to see there is a place for such a ranking @ hwbot

 

is there some other reason why you would not want a single GPU ranking

 

is hwbot payed to suppress such a ranking by the manufacturers

 

i ask as i am at a loss to understand your position

[knopflerbruce]

why is it you are so resistant to a single GPU 3D class jmke?

 

you would need to be blind not to see there is a place for such a ranking @ hwbot

 

is there some other reason why you would not want a single GPU ranking

 

is hwbot payed to suppress such a ranking by the manufacturers

 

i ask as i am at a loss to understand your position

 

It wouldn't be a disaster if they actually made such a ranking, but then you may want to split the number of cores on CPUs as well. Not to mention the good, old AMD/Intel separate rank debate.

 

I also thought most people benched because it's fun to match their scores against similar setups, not to have the fastest scores on the planet:confused: Perhaps I'm just different, I'm happy when I get 2.4 points for a good score with some cheap and relatively outdated HW. Those who want to have 100+ points for their efforts to find it interesting to bench have an attitude problem.

[Massman]

is hwbot payed to suppress such a ranking by the manufacturers

 

I was going to write a lenghty sarcastic remarks on this 'argument', but decided not to although this argument pisses me off big time. We spend hours and hours of our free time on this site and in the end people still we're getting paid for certain decisions ... that's just sad.

 

No, hwbot is not paid by manufacturer.

 

There might be a solution for the single gpu benchers, but that one would be without points. I'll run it by the rest of the crew first :-)

[Massman]

An idea strikes.... could the hardware master and/or hardware junkie leaderboards be pushed harder from the HWB side? Those are a free-for-all with a bit less dependence on money.

 

Must've missed this: yeah, it's possible I reckon :-).

[bazx]

I was going to write a lenghty sarcastic remarks on this 'argument', but decided not to although this argument pisses me off big time. We spend hours and hours of our free time on this site and in the end people still we're getting paid for certain decisions ... that's just sad.

 

No, hwbot is not paid by manufacturer.

 

There might be a solution for the single gpu benchers, but that one would be without points. I'll run it by the rest of the crew first :-)

 

what would be the point of a single gpu ranking system without points?

 

when 3x sli came in you managed to put up a ranking in a month

 

if hwbot needs funding to pay coders to do the work for a single gpu ranking system i am 100% sure i could raise the money required

 

this would remove the burden on RB to do it as he has limited time

Edited February 21, 2009 by bazx

[bazx]

that must be it then. not any of the other 1001 reasons already mentioned in the thread. reread SF3D reply. the decision was made, and since you like repetition....

 

sf3d can not be relied upon to make such statements or decisions as he is way to involved with sponsors and the existing ranking system

[Massman]

what would be the point of a single gpu ranking system without points?

 

Competition?

 

when 3x sli came in you managed to put up a ranking in a month

 

There's no such thing as a 3x SLI ranking.

 

if hwbot needs funding to pay coders to do the work for a single gpu ranking system i am 100% sure i could raise the money required

 

That doesn't make any sense. First you say that we don't switch to single gpu rankings because we are getting paid not to do so and now you say you'd find money to switch to a single gpu ranking. What would be the difference then? People would say "you don't swith to single slot rankings because you're paid" ... and they would be correct.

 

Money doesn't change everything. I believe the crew would still agree on single-slot solutions even if we had a million dollar available.

 

this would remove the burden on RB to do it as he has limited time

 

Not the way I was going to do the suggestion.

[bazx]

1. why should the single GPU bench er not receive points for there work?

 

2. i made an error with the 3xsli as it was listed in the search options

 

 

3.

That doesn't make any sense. First you say that we don't switch to single gpu rankings because we are getting paid not to do so and now you say you'd find money to switch to a single gpu ranking. What would be the difference then? People would say "you don't swith to single slot rankings because you're paid" ... and they would be correct.

 

you are wrong.... i did not say you were being payed .... i asked if you were

 

 

Money doesn't change everything. I believe the crew would still agree on single-slot solutions even if we had a million dollar available.

 

 

this only backs up my opinion that it is time for some changes in the moderators here as it would seem you have become tired of the task of running such a data base

 

and could do with some new blood to inject some energy

 

4. if RB is the only coder here he clearly could do with some support and getting other coders to help him might be of some use either payed help or voluntary donated help

[Massman]

1. why should the single GPU bench er not receive points for there work?

 

They do, in their category and in the global rankings. Single gpu's just don't reach extreme heights in certain benchmarks.

 

I'm trying to offer a solution that doesn't require months of coding.

 

this only backs up my opinion that it is time for some changes in the moderators here as it would seem you have become tired of the task of running such a data base and could do with some new blood to inject some energy

 

So, the current crew is incapable since we don't change our minds about the single-gpu ranking? We all understand your point and all know the pro's and cons, but currently the cons outweigh the pro's, thus we stand by our conclusion. It's not just a matter of "I feel it's wrong", it's a matter of being consistent at hwbot, it's a matter of time restrictions, priorities in bugs and features and so on. If we'd split up single gpu and multi-gpu, we MUST split up single core and multi-core cpu's.

 

I am under the impression that you think that we're not switching because of personal reasons on not because we've outweighed the different arguments. Am I wrong?

 

4. if RB is the only coder here he clearly could do with some support and getting other coders to help him might be of some use either payed help or voluntary donated help

 

Payed - Not possible

Voluntary - Possible, although it would take a few days to explain how hwbot works in real life, and a few weeks to explain in english over the internet.

[bazx]

I am under the impression that you think that we're not switching because of personal reasons on not because we've outweighed the different arguments. Am I wrong?

 

yes you are wrong...

 

weather you like it or not Hwbot has become the overclockers data base for world rankings

 

you can no longer run it as if it was just a pet project in your back room

 

it needs professional help to get all the required rankings in place

 

the only reason you can put forward for why hwbot cannot be updated is that it would take to much work or we don't have the time

 

if this is the case then maybe you should consider why you remain here if you can no long deal with the work load

 

there are many here that would like the chance to serve the community and would have the time and energy required to complete the task

Edited February 21, 2009 by bazx

[bazx]

They do, in their category and in the global rankings. Single gpu's just don't reach extreme heights in certain benchmarks.

 

 

this is the point of the hole discussion

 

single GPU cards cannot beat Hybrid card hec 2x single gpu cards cannot beat a hybrid and so should not be in the same group

 

Voluntary - Possible, although it would take a few days to explain how hwbot works in real life, and a few weeks to explain in english over the internet

.

 

this is at least a step in the right direction

Edited February 21, 2009 by bazx

[knopflerbruce]

yes you are wrong...

 

weather you like it or not Hwbot has become the overclockers data base for world rankings

 

you can no longer run it as if it was just a pet project in your back room

 

it needs professional help to get all the required rankings in place

 

the only reason you can put forward for why hwbot cannot be updated is that it would take to much work or we don't have the time

 

if this is the case then maybe you should consider why you remain here if you can no long deal with the work load

 

there are many here that would like the chance to serve the community and would have the time and energy required to complete the task

 

HWBot needs more mods, perhaps. Maybe more coders, too. But no so-called "professionals" can deal with the ranks any better than what the mods do now. The help should come from the community. I can't belive for one second that any non-bencher can give any valid argumetns on how to run this site - you can hire people for $100000000 and their opinion is still worth like 10% of Massman's;)

 

A solution to the capacity problems here is certainly NOT to ask the existing mods to withdraw. Easy math. And SF3D's opinion is 100% valid, he's one of the more sensible members here. Sponsorship is irrelevant in this case, there are no signs that he's serving his company instead of HWBot when he does his job here.