bazx Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 i know we have been over this 4 months ago and a poll showed at that time 2x gpu would be grouped with 1x gpu or cards would be defined by how many slots they needed to work but some time has passed and we have seen the new generation 1x gpu cards and they just cannot beat the older generation 2x gpu cards there are many of us that would like to compete with single gpu cards and get the full amount of global points for our efforts can we not separate out the 2x gpu cards from the 1x gpu cards baz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllusioN Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I must agree.., never understood why a unit with 2 gpu´s ended up in singel card..??? A singel gpu is a singel gpu.., if the case holds more than one gpu its a multi gpu... It has to be that simple.., and it would be so much more fun actually..! :-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I must agree.., never understood why a unit with 2 gpu´s ended up in singel card..???A singel gpu is a singel gpu.., if the case holds more than one gpu its a multi gpu... It has to be that simple.., and it would be so much more fun actually..! :-)) We have only two categories for GPUs here, single and sli/xf. If a card like 3870x2 goes under SLI/xf, what about two 3870x2's? it would be pretty weird if BOTH go into the same category (SLI/xf). Suddenly it would be NO use to buy just one of these cards. Maybe it's an idea to create another global category for these dual GPU cards only, if it's really that much of a problem. Btw, if these cards can't compete with dual-GPU cards, then what about single core CPUs vs dual core CPUs vs tri-cores vs quad cores? We need some serious splitting if everything is supposed to be totally fair:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Does it seem fair that people buy one dual-gpu card and would have to compete against people who buy two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 how many dual GPU cards do we currently have? currently three viable...soon to be 4. Not a big deal in the grand scheme, except they are mainly the top-scoring cards and the future will see many more of them (not including the Asus X3, 7800GT Dual or 6600GT Dual) Does it seem fair that people buy one dual-gpu card and would have to compete against people who buy two? Does it seem fair that people who buy two (single core) GPUs for SLI/CF have to compete with people who buy three or four? not meant in a bitchy way, but the most obvious response to your point..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 There is no need to change the current rules. We are not counting cores here. We count slots/sockets (PCI-E/AGP etc.) One graphics card = one slot/socket, no matter how many gpu's there are inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Does it seem fair that people who buy two (single core) GPUs for SLI/CF have to compete with people who buy three or four? not meant in a bitchy way, but the most obvious response to your point..... Too be honest, that sounds far more logical than my argument . You either compete against one card or multiple cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllusioN Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 There is no need to change the current rules. We are not counting cores here. We count slots/sockets (PCI-E/AGP etc.) One graphics card = one slot/socket, no matter how many gpu's there are inside. :-).., I know that.., it just strike me a lil strange... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) is there reason why a new global category cannot be set up for single GPU cards i mean technically ? edit : i have an idea if it could be done and i could get enough sponsors to support a single gpu global category, manufacturers and private funding to cover the costs of the setup for hwbot would that help SF3D your mind should be more open to the needs of others here @ Hwbot there are many as shown in the last poll that would like to bench only against 1x gpu cards Edited August 4, 2008 by bazx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 bazx- We try to keep things as simple as possible. It's not me who decide these alone. I do know that there is many users who does not agree with us on this decision, but it is the best solution so far. Intel larrabee will not be any different, cause ATI / Nvidia new gpu's are multicore design too. If there is two/many physical cores in one pcb, but the card uses still one socket, it is single card. If multiple sockets are in use, it is dual card setup. We had this discussion already in the past and nothing have changed since that. I don't like to sound rude here, but this discussion will not bring us more categories in global points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) with the current Globle finance problems there has never been a better time to introduce a single GPU ranking system the cards are cheap compared to the hybrid dual GPU units i have single 4870,280gtx,9800gtx sitting here and they are going to wast as there are no points for benching them how are we to hold our teams together when hwbot will only except the most expensive hybrid cards for global points come on hwbot you have to find away of supporting the cash strapped 3D bench er i want to compete @ a global level but do not want to put down £450 to do it single GPU would return me and many others here to 3D benching Edited February 19, 2009 by bazx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 hwbot has forgotten its roots the very people that made this site are now being pushed out by big money there was a time when this site supported the basic bench er it is a great shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 hwbot has forgotten its roots the very people that made this site are now being pushed out by big money there was a time when this site supported the basic bench er it is a great shame You still have HWBoints to fight for. 15 boints pr 1st place - that's pretty much IMO. Plus, dual GPU cards are MUCH less expensive now than just a few years ago. 7800gtx 512mb retailed for like $700. GTX295 goes for $500 at newegg NOW. I don't get your argument at all, really, you still needed two cards to compete in the 7800-era - $1000 now vs $1400 before. How can you say people are being pushed out by "big money" NOW and not before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 why should single gpu benching be treated like a sub class of bencher ? with only a few points is that all we deserve for all the work we put into benching these cards until these mutant hybrid cards infested the single card rankings we had a very completive single gpu ranking system single gpu cards are much cheaper then hybrid cards that alone would be a good enough reason to have a single gpu ranking system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 why should single gpu benching be treated like a sub class of bencher ? with only a few points is that all we deserve for all the work we put into benching these cards until these mutant hybrid cards infested the single card rankings we had a very completive single gpu ranking system single gpu cards are much cheaper then hybrid cards that alone would be a good enough reason to have a single gpu ranking system You can have the same view on alot of other stuff, too, like AMD K7. K8, PIII and so on. Lots of people work their asses off on HW that can never get really high in the global ranks, but if you should make special rules for all these subgroups it'll be a mess beyond your imagination. Converting skill to points is not very straight-forward, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 hold a new pole now i Dare You see if its the same now 1 year later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 and this time let me word the pole and set the categories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 you seem a little uneasy at the thought of a new poll jmke last time it was said that in 6 moths time there would be a single gpu that could take on the hybide cards and here we are 1 year later and the hybrid cards are now faster then 2 single gpu cards run the poll again and we will see if minds have changed and i will shut up for another year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 from our leader 1 year and 9 days ago I think it is very, very likely the next gen nvidia series will be much faster. Heck, i think even the G9x based 8800GTX/Ultra will be faster. this never happened the hybrids have just gotten even more powerful the manufactures are not going to stop making the hybrids and there has been one at the top of the single cards rankings now for a year it must be time to give the single gpu back its own ranking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 It's really not that easy, Bazx. Even if we would make the change in theory, RB would have to go through a lot of trouble to code it decently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacha35 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I understand what you are saying Baz, I would think it would be a good idea anyway to have single cards put into their own category as it would increase sales of single GPU's as well as Duel core GPu's. It also gives Hwbot members the option on how they wish to bench and with what equipment. Yes we must still have a category for the highest benches and hardware but I now think the time has come to make different leagues within Hwbot so that other members can be just as competitive in there category. What I am suggesting is we have different categories for different hardware, yes this is a hell of a lot of work that Hwbot would have to undertake but in the end I think it would benefit everyone including hardware manufactures. If we had a category for single GPU's, Duel core CPU's, Duel core GPU's and Quad core CPU's then the more extreme server core CPU's for Wprime. Again I do understand how much more work this would involve, but I think for the goodness of this sport we should now be looking into running different categories with maximum points for these categories, a bit like motor sport where everyone can participate on their own budget. We would then see the amount of benchers from around the world triple as they could bench within their own budget and be recognised for the achievements in their own category. This is just my opinion and would welcome feedback on my comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Semi off-topic... HWB needs better funding. I dont think its anyones fault that the staff have become so overworked but overclocking and benching is increasing in exposure and activity at an exponential rate- we are victims of our own desire to push the hobby...sport and while people mostly complained about Futuremark charging for Vantage (including me!,) I CAN see that we cannot expect everything to be 1000% accurate, quick, actioned etc if people are doing the hard work in their spare time...for nothing other than satisfaction. I would rather MUCH rather see HWB stay "in control" of global benchmark submissions than a company take over because they were backed and funded by hardware manufacturers and the skewed loyalties that come with it. I believe this should be by enthusiasts for enthusiasts in as many ways possible. As for Baz' point.... I know a year ago I was 100% in agreement, mainly through a money dependence and i would still like to see more emphasis placed on skill not money but I can see that they are technically single GPUs. The emphasis would still be on money. If not for hardware directly- LN2 and cascades to get the clocks. overall. Im a big believer in bench efficiency and the reality of increasing a CPU speed by 25% to get a 5-10% score increase in benches is something im not a fan of but its what I "have" to do to get the rankings. Its satisfying to get so close to higher scores with so much less on the GPU or CPU...wherever the bottleneck isnt, but whos gonna notice if im in a lower ranking? No-one checks to see whos lower down the leaderboards We cant escape the money dependence in this hobby, especially for global. Global points are EXPENSIVE. Hardware categories arent much better. Even if the category hardware is pretty cheap, the rest of the system still has to be up there to get the scores. Still got plenty of categories with £40 GPUs with £150 or £600 CPUs on £250 mobos cooled by cascade or LN2. Granted, i've done nothing to work against that (with dry ice) so for the small difference I might or have not made...I apologise. Im worried this is "how it has to be" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 If not more, John. The current hardware database is not build based on # of gpu's, it's build based on card type. This means that RB would have to restructure the hardware database, which has its influence on the hwboints algorythm, the rankings, graphs and so much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 An idea strikes.... could the hardware master and/or hardware junkie leaderboards be pushed harder from the HWB side? Those are a free-for-all with a bit less dependence on money. Downside I can see is...the harder they are pushed, the bigger the fish who will swim there and the guys with least money will be pushed out again. Rank by cooling type? Make it mandatory to have temperature software open so we can spot whos using A/C, chillers etc Im heading WAY off-topic now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Temperature software can be cheated with: just change the offset value and you're done :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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