PUNX223 Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I have a question... i know there is a big deal going on about all the BS surrouonding poeple benching in groups and submitting identical scores.... but lets say for instance i buy a q9550 i bench it to the best of my ability.... so i submit all of my 2d runs... now if i decide to ship it to a friend to bench.... hes not allowed to submit his results with it?? i mean i thought part of joining a team was to be a team, anotherwards help eachother out? if someone else is using there own skill to bench hardware i dont see why they have to own it to bench it... there are alot of us who are regular guys and love benching but cant afford top hardware. so if we have someone nice/generous enough to let us borrow hardware to bench?? why would it not be allowed... i understand if a gtoup is together not being able to submit multiple scores, but why not if they are using their own ability/skill to get their results... lets face it... I cant afford all fo the hardware and im sure alot of us cant get the best all teh time.... so as long as WE are making our own scores... wheres the problem? theres no way a normal guy can be competitive with such constraints. Maybe my view is a lil different tahn yours but i think if you take a few seconds and think about it that way, you may see what i mean and begin to agree... taht as long as the hardware is benched in "THEIR" system.... i dont see the problem? if i had a friend from my tem willing to send me a QX9775 to bench (i know i could never afford one) why wouldnt i be allowed to submit scores, especially if im in my house submitting the scores.... your team should be allowed to be a team and be able to loan something out to get the less fortunate of the group to try and have some awesome benches thank you very much for hearing me out, and i really hope you will see it the way i do, and understand that we are all here for one reason, to enjoy pushing hardware.... lets let it get back to that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komadyret Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 A stray gfx card, CPU or board isn't the problem as I see it. The problem is when a bench setup with obviously the same hardware takes a tour among members and get benched at what is obviously the very same settings, maybe it's even the same set of bench runs beeing posted? It's when such occurences pop up one starts to get ideas of limiting points to the best score for the team with the cpu or gfx instead of the best score of the member, which will limit this site to a team effort, not a personal effort. Just my thoughts on the matter. I'm sure hwbot will find a way to handle the issue properly eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I have a question... i know there is a big deal going on about all the BS surrouonding poeple benching in groups and submitting identical scores.... but lets say for instance i buy a q9550 i bench it to the best of my ability.... so i submit all of my 2d runs... now if i decide to ship it to a friend to bench.... hes not allowed to submit his results with it?? That's correct. i mean i thought part of joining a team was to be a team, anotherwards help eachother out? if someone else is using there own skill to bench hardware i dont see why they have to own it to bench it... there are alot of us who are regular guys and love benching but cant afford top hardware. so if we have someone nice/generous enough to let us borrow hardware to bench?? why would it not be allowed... Because allowing that kind of "activity" would make it legal for any team with a golden CPU (or GPU) to pass it around to all team members so they can bench it and get top scores, too. Which is CLEARLY unfair to the other teams. i understand if a gtoup is together not being able to submit multiple scores, but why not if they are using their own ability/skill to get their results... How is it possible for us to know whose skills have been used? lets face it... I cant afford all fo the hardware and im sure alot of us cant get the best all teh time.... so as long as WE are making our own scores... wheres the problem? theres no way a normal guy can be competitive with such constraints. if you REALLY want one, you can afford it. You just have to sacrifice something else. But giving up on alot of things just to be able to score high on the rankings wouldn't be normal, eh? Maybe my view is a lil different tahn yours but i think if you take a few seconds and think about it that way, you may see what i mean and begin to agree... taht as long as the hardware is benched in "THEIR" system.... i dont see the problem? if i had a friend from my tem willing to send me a QX9775 to bench (i know i could never afford one) why wouldnt i be allowed to submit scores, especially if im in my house submitting the scores.... Bench 3d benchmarks, that's allowed. Or you can wait until the QX9770's are cheap, buy them and then bench:) They're just as fast next year as they are now. your team should be allowed to be a team and be able to loan something out to get the less fortunate of the group to try and have some awesome benches thank you very much for hearing me out, and i really hope you will see it the way i do, and understand that we are all here for one reason, to enjoy pushing hardware.... lets let it get back to that.... I THINK anything except CPUs (for 2d benches) and GPUs (for 3d benches) are allowed to be borrowed. That's enough IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komadyret Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 And then to the; "I sold this cpu to person X on my team who benched it and then sold it to person Y on our team, who benched it" etc... "We even have receipts for the bank transfers going around, and there was some trades included too", and " now, after 6 months I found new use for the cpu and bought it back from whoever on my team had it at the moment". We can all see the problems of verification of the "ownership" I'm not gonna come up with what I think the ultimate sollution should be, cause I don't have one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNNon Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Quote: i mean i thought part of joining a team was to be a team, anotherwards help eachother out? if someone else is using there own skill to bench hardware i dont see why they have to own it to bench it... there are alot of us who are regular guys and love benching but cant afford top hardware. so if we have someone nice/generous enough to let us borrow hardware to bench?? why would it not be allowed... Because allowing that kind of "activity" would make it legal for any team with a golden CPU (or GPU) to pass it around to all team members so they can bench it and get top scores, too. Which is CLEARLY unfair to the other teams. I think that covers it best, one golden part scores once, not once for every member of the team. I THINK anything except CPUs (for 2d benches) and GPUs (for 3d benches) are allowed to be borrowed. That's enough IMO Then allowing it to be shared for opposing type benches is about the fairest way it could be done, it's not perfect but a reasonable solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71proste Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 the owner of the CPU can submit 2D scoresthe owner of the GPU can submit 3D scores loaning hardware = hardware sharing and is not accepted; while we do understand that being a part of a team encourages teamwork, it should not be abused by posting multiple scores with the same hardware in multiple profiles. in theory yes,but hard to believe..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Lets assume that only top-end hardware is the subjwect of this... Why would anyone want to rise to the top of the rankings with other peoples gear? Wheres the satisfaction in making the decisions on what to buy, in finding good chips etc etc Its not just about the best bscores, its about doing the best with what you have. What if you break someone elses cherry CPU by mistake? Its not really a practical approach to benching. Benching only for points shouldnt be why we do this. Its an unhealthy attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNX223 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 im not talking about benching just for points.... but what abouot recognition.... where did i miss making this point... ok lets say within all practicality you can never justify buying a qx chip, and you get a chance to use one... and you do amazingly well on it.... just because you couldnt afford it, even though you clocked it you cant show it off to the world because the unforgettable stigma, that someone else owns it... i just dont get it... i mean what does it matter... if i can clock a e8400 to 5.5ghz thats a great feat.... so what if i cant afford a $1k chip.... if im given the chance to bench it... unless i was using someones complete setup i dont see where the problem is... forgive me for pushing this further... but i really believe taht if you only saw it the way i do... maybe you would understand... theres alot of talent out there just trying to show what they can do in the world, amongst the "SELECT FEW" sponsored top clockers. how are they ever gonna get a chance to make it if they cant even be recognised for what they can do... lets forget the sopmeone else owns it part for a second ok.... lets say I was for instance to recieve a qx9775 and i was able to get the top cpuz for it along with some very nice placings on alot of benches with it... that means i am a great clocker... now how did the fact taht i dont own it change the fact that i still made those scores possible?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nordicjedi Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Punx, the only thing that concerns me about that scenario is that if you have one dream system, with one person who is an extremely skilled overclocker, that person could do the initial benches on that machine, then send the entire system to the next guy on the team along with the settings he or she used, then after that person is done posting very similar results, they send it to the next guy along with the settings, and so on and so forth. If we're talking 2 guys, then not a big problem. But what if you've got 50 guys on a team who use this dream system? Start magnifying the number of people on the team and you realize that you'll suddenly occupy a significant block of the results on hwbot, and more or less own all the points. How would hwbot determine that it was "skill" being used and not the same settings as the person before? Similarly, if a bencher is a hardware junkie, he can give out his systems or components and potentially get a few members of his team points and hardware junkie status too. Hell, what if k|ngp|n loaned out everything he had to the rest of the members of XS? You see where I'm going? Ok, but let's talk about only transferring a cpu or graphics cards. Same exact argument as above, only less points are at stake. In a perfect world, they should also consider using shared cpu's as impermissible in 3D benchmarks, as a QX over 4.5ghz will have a huge effect on a score over a dual at the same speed. I see where you're coming from on the recognition part of being a good or great overclocker, but if two people are having similar scores (not identical, but close) from a similar setup, then how will anyone be able to tell that you're the one who overclocked the system by yourself. But since I think you're talking more about someone buying the hardware and then sending it to someone else to bench, well, this, I believe, is permissible SO LONG AS the bench is submitted under the name of the person owning the hardware. This prevents multiple people from claiming points on the same hardware. While the person benching won't get the recognition he or she would like, the points would be counted one way or another. If you must, under this scenario, put in a note saying "this result was achieved by *****." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnip Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 the owner of the CPU can submit 2D scoresthe owner of the GPU can submit 3D scores loaning hardware = hardware sharing and is not accepted; while we do understand that being a part of a team encourages teamwork, it should not be abused by posting multiple scores with the same hardware in multiple profiles. So you mean to tell me people like Kingpin and others like him have owned all the hardware they have submitted? You look at some of the members submissions and they have submitted a bench on just about every card made or every cpu made or both. There is no way anybody will ever get me to believe that him and others like him have owned all the hardware they submitted for. Yeah there is alot of sharing going on and what's sad is there is alot of crying going on about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 You can still post results with other ppls gear on any overclocking forum. Thats where most of the recognition is, HWBot is just the icing on the cake. A lot of companies are still unaware of HWB and the ones that do arent really really really interested. Kingpin would still be famous without HWB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 So you mean to tell me people like Kingpin and others like him have owned all the hardware they have submitted? You look at some of the members submissions and they have submitted a bench on just about every card made or every cpu made or both. There is no way anybody will ever get me to believe that him and others like him have owned all the hardware they submitted for. Yeah there is alot of sharing going on and what's sad is there is alot of crying going on about it. I own ALL my HW. Don't ever think anything else;) Remember that alot of people buy a CPU, bench it, and then sell it so they can afford other gear (perhaps another CPU if it wasn't good enough). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komadyret Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I own ALL my HW. Don't ever think anything else;) Remember that alot of people buy a CPU, bench it, and then sell it so they can afford other gear (perhaps another CPU if it wasn't good enough). Yeah, and your collection of AMD cpu's needs a truck to move around LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 To counter another angle of this. If hardware sharing was allowed it would no longer be a list of whos the richest or best supported bencher...it would be a list of who has the most friends who are rich and bench Cant escape from the money side of this hobby for global scores. Also...why should someone necessarily be happy for someone else to go off and get recognition and great scores when they're the ones earning the money to pay for it? Sure, friends share but theres a limit. Things can go wrong with that too- the person who gets it on loan might beat the owners score or they might break the gear and no-one saves any money if that happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKarmakazi Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) So you mean to tell me people like Kingpin and others like him have owned all the hardware they have submitted? You look at some of the members submissions and they have submitted a bench on just about every card made or every cpu made or both. There is no way anybody will ever get me to believe that him and others like him have owned all the hardware they submitted for. Yeah there is alot of sharing going on and what's sad is there is alot of crying going on about it. People like Kinpin are sponsored and get alot of hardware for free... so yes they submit with all their own hardware. If you cant believe that then... too bad for you? For instance I own a pc parts business and so can bench a great number of gear for free. Some people are hardware reviewers. Some people build gaming/crunching/encoding pcs for others and can bench those. So before you start to say everyone on the top is hardware sharing, do some math... Hardware sharing rules are fair and in place for a reason. Sponsored overclockers obviously have an edge over the rest of us, but hey thats life. Since they are the best, companies give them free hardware to show off its potential... Just like any professional sport or league... Edited December 27, 2008 by TheKarmakazi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2chesapeakes Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) So if I understand this correctly if I buy a top of the line setup today and a month later decide to sell to someone on my team that is not considered sharing. However if I am done benching with the hardware and decide to send it to someone to use because I upgraded and it is sitting around then we call that sharing. What about 2 people on the same team with identical hardware submitting benches. Is this sharing if the IM or phone each other to work through issues. Edited December 28, 2008 by 2chesapeakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnip Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) People like Kinpin are sponsored and get alot of hardware for free... so yes they submit with all their own hardware. If you cant believe that then... too bad for you? For instance I own a pc parts business and so can bench a great number of gear for free. Some people are hardware reviewers. Some people build gaming/crunching/encoding pcs for others and can bench those. So before you start to say everyone on the top is hardware sharing, do some math... Hardware sharing rules are fair and in place for a reason. Sponsored overclockers obviously have an edge over the rest of us, but hey thats life. Since they are the best, companies give them free hardware to show off its potential... Just like any professional sport or league... I am sure there are some out there that have used their and only their hardware. I never once said everybody and I am not saying Kingpin has submitted borrowed hardware either. I simply used him as a metaphor. You get a cookie though for using only your hardware but you can't say everybody is like you and has used there own hardware. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are. There are many out there that feel the way I do and there are many out there that feel the way you do so don't sit there and tell me to go do some math, you go do some math. I could care less either way. Use your hardware don't use your hardware. Who GAF!!! Edited December 28, 2008 by drnip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKarmakazi Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I am not saying Kingpin has submitted borrowed hardware either. Read your own post again You get a cookie though No thanks too many xmas cookies already I could care less either way. Use your hardware don't use your hardware. Who GAF!!! Then why even post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Please can I have the cookie? Always room for quality cookies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKarmakazi Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Please can I have the cookie? Always room for quality cookies *gives cookie to K404* ...cant be cruel, so some milk to dip it in also included Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 You're spoiling me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-EL Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) People like Kinpin are sponsored and get alot of hardware for free... so yes they submit with all their own hardware. If you cant believe that then... too bad for you? For instance I own a pc parts business and so can bench a great number of gear for free. Some people are hardware reviewers. Some people build gaming/crunching/encoding pcs for others and can bench those. So before you start to say everyone on the top is hardware sharing, do some math... Hardware sharing rules are fair and in place for a reason. Sponsored overclockers obviously have an edge over the rest of us, but hey thats life. Since they are the best, companies give them free hardware to show off its potential... Just like any professional sport or league... Consider yourselves sponsored by individual entities boys. Same as being sponsored by Evga or Intel, just on a lower scale. Happy Clocking. ________ XV1100 Edited January 24, 2011 by HawaiiSuperman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Learnin' Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Consider yourselves sponsored by individual entities boys. Same as being sponsored by Evga or Intel, just on a lower scale. Happy Clocking. That makes sense to me. I have actually read where "sponsored" clockers received CPU's on loan from Intel for short periods only to give them back so another can use them. How does this differ from "loaning" items? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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