Bobnova

I don't like the idea of frozen points. I like the idea of replacing some benches for globals especially. 3d05 and pc05 for example. 3d05 because it's almost entirely a CPU benchmark, PC05 because it's almost entirely a "how many things that haven't been branded cheats yet can I get away with, without getting them branded as cheats?" disaster. If HWBot needs a system benchmark (I like the concept), PC05 is not doing the job right now, and will only get worse. There has to be a more secure system benchmark somewhere, maybe one that can use more than 4 threads, ideally one that isn't full of holes. Given the current limitation on the number of results that count, adding or removing benchmarks doesn't seem likely to matter all that much for score totals. The benches I personally would remove to make room for new stuff (or on general principle) are the following: PC05: It's broken. I think we all know it's broken. It's a laughable "full system" benchmark anyway. I would pull this from global and HW points. PiFast: So incredibly easy to cheat it's a joke. Reference John Lam. No checksum = lol. I would pull this from both as well. WPrime: Not secure either, SS is fairly easy to create if a person is so inclined. Easier than PiFast really, as there's only one calculation number. 3D05: So incredibly CPU bound it's almost funny. I would pull this from globals, and leave it in place for HW. There's plenty of older HW that it's a 3d bench on. Modern HW? Not so much. 3D01: I personally love the bench, but it's a CPU bench and an ugly one (LOD). I'd pull globals, after all the best card for it will be two generations old shortly, and before that the best card was from the dark ages of 55/65nm! 3D06: See 3D05. Aquamark: Hey look, another CPU bench! This one is almost entirely a CPU bench for the vast majority of GPUs, there's something to be said for yanking it completely. I'd definitely take globals away. At least yank WR points, the best scores are all single card, no reason to reward the extra spending for lower performance. I think I would give memory clock globals, I think it's something the masses understand and are interested in. Not spectacular live, but at least it gives a lot of frost. That leaves plenty of room for new benches, a few GPU benches, 1-3 2d benches, and a system bench. I'd like to save WPrime, but it really needs more security. Getting the checksum validation setup back (it was before my time, but I know it existed) would be nice. Adding one to PiFast would be nice too.

The celerons march onward! Very nice.

Rules are rules When they're rules anyway. Hey Schmuckley, if you're still reading this thread you might want to go fix your PC05 results. You can't cover up the "system details" of the main benchmark window. Reference the sample SS: http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content/pcmarkexample.jpg

So is CCC+AB a legal substitute for GPUz? I'm curious as I've had random issues with GPUz in the past.

Hell yes, nicely done Matt!

It was said in a different thread by some mod or another that the PC05 section of 3dmark may go the way of the 3d03 section, leaving us to wonder if results were any good. I'm not entirely certain I buy that as an explanation, but there you have it.

Rules are rules. I can't say seeing half a dozen PC05 report emails streaming into my email inbox made me happy persay, but odds are excellent someone would have reported them eventually so whatever. I don't harbor a grudge against anybody who reports my stuff, regardless of whether I rage at the time. I do of course generally go check their results over! It's the "he who is without sin" thing, essentially. Sweet said he approved everything PC05 results.txt wise from 1/1 through 1/somethingRecent, if he actually did I think you did us a favor really The ideal thing of course is to nail the rules, then if your result gets reported it won't matter in the slightest. Valid results DO get reported, I've had some of mine reported as well as some of the overclockers.com team results. They sit around reported for a day to two months till a moderator looks at 'em and says "wtf is this reported for?" and marks them checked. Really not a big deal IMO. Results that come up short of the rules are a risk, sometimes there's a decent bet that they won't be reported (0.1boint results, for instance), but if they aren't within the rules they aren't within the rules. On that note, I'm curious to see what happens with the huge, but lacking GPUz, Heaven result.

Helps though. A lot.

I seriously doubt it, as it was a pifast submission of schmuckley's that got reported

Wait, so I can add the missing results.txt to my teams submissions now? I can edit the SS I took with two CPUz CPU and no CPUz mem tabs now? It was, I assume, done as a (poor) joke. Are you saying this is legal now too? If something in a thread is billed as an official rule, by a moderator, the assumption is that it is a rule. If it's NOT, please be specific about that. Y'all are moderators, your word is literally law. Please keep that in mind when posting! Ney's latest is to show us that it's OK to PS screenshots, as long as you do a bad job and don't increase the score.

Nobody wants to buy Trinity for benching? I can't really see it, given the price of the HW people are already buying in the pro league. Or being given, as the case may be.

If it's listed in the thread as "As of this date, results.txt is required" then yes, I expect that to be a rule. Other people, including me, were being held to the rules in that existed only in that thread in october, in november, and in december. Clearly I'm bucking the tide here so I'll give up, gotta say I'd be shocked if anybody else got away with this. Isn't any photoshopped SS a ban? Come on.

That's the pass. Other people were held to the thread as law, whether they read it or not. That's been how HWBot has worked for years now. The thread laid down the rules in october.

Glad I could help solve something

It lists it as 27.81 or 27.79. Only zeros are knocked off, as the trailing zero after a decimal point doesn't mean anything. Here's a 10.31: http://hwbot.org/submission/2320196_aristidis_pifast_core_i7_3770k_10.31_sec And a 10.39: http://hwbot.org/submission/2329516_wizerty_pifast_core_i7_3770k_10.39_sec

Everybody does that, last time I checked. Makes perfect sense to check that everybody ahead/around you has done things correctly. In that specific case, 27.8 = 27.80 = 27.800, there's no functional difference in score there. It's not WPrime where you have to enter the second part in milliseconds. Sharing forum accounts is rarely accepted on forums I've been part of, but I have no idea what HWBots rules are on that, or whether they're in a forum thread or a rules page or which one to believe on a given day. The real message at the end of the day is, don't mess up when you submit your score. If you submit correctly with the correct SS/verification it doesn't matter if someone reports you, it won't get yanked. If you submit something incorrect, expect it to get yanked. Whether it actually will get yanked depends on many things. Almost everybody in this thread could do with a chill pill and enhanced politeness. EDIT: Actually it's Mr. Paco that screwed up his submission, 27.78s is not 27.7s. Submission: http://hwbot.org/submission/2283196_mr.paco_pifast_sempron_130_27.7_sec/ SS: http://img.hwbot.org/u30321/image_id_784015.jpeg

Are the requirements for pro league changing at all, or will it still be anybody getting current gen ES bits plus anybody getting direct support from vendors? The tournaments / tennis style of ranking is an interesting concept, I think it has promise. Of course, I'm not in the pro league.

It's not hard to read a rules thread that says results.tt is required as of october. Nor is it hard to notice that everybody is being held to that rules thread as law. It's even easier to notice when one (1) person is NOT held to that rules thread as law. It's quoted in post #11. Or are you saying a few other people got a free pass too? EDIT: Alternatively, feel free to educate me/us on why your submission was not held to RULES posted in a thread in october, while other submissions were being deleted for violating that same exact thread.

Won't help, this sub was before it was put on the rules page. At the time that rule was only in the clarification thread. Of course, everybody else was being held to that thread as law. It's only this guy that got a free pass.

Doesn't seem like an inverter/booster board attached to RAM would do much for the RAM's stability.

Oh come on, nobody knows what the rules are any given day

Does a verification link supersede the need for results.txt in the SS? In the thread (last time I looked) if you had a link you did not need results.txt, the main rules page doesn't mention it. What's the call on that one?

So does this mean that only rules on the main rules pages have to be followed? No more rules existing only in threads and still being enforced? That would make HWBot a lot easier to keep track of, if it's true. It hasn't in the past, which has been an issue, and the sudden (unannounced...) change now to only-the-rules-page-matters setup is good. Getting there because a moderator ran afoul of the thread rules and changing whether thread rules matter or not to suit that moderator... less so. So the question is: Do thread rules matter now, or is it only the main rules pages?

As of jan 1st? What about the "As of October something or other" top20 HW or Global need it, in the other thread? Everybody was being held to that thread as law, up till ney. We've all always been held to threads as law. WTF?

They don't complain because they don't want to be fined. I bet if you talked to them in the garage they'd bitch for HOURS. If there's one thing racers love to do other than to drive, it's bitch and moan. Low clock challenges are nearly impossible to do competitively, people will always cheat. Not everybody, but enough that if you want to be in the prize areas you'll cheat too. It's known as "defensive cheating" in racing. Worse, it's really easy to cheat in a LCC. Just raise the clocks, and back down for the screenshot. You can even calculate exactly how far to raise the clocks based on the best known efficiency. Without something like CPUz/GPUz running the whole time and logging the clocks in short increments, it won't happen. Once something like that exists then it will be possible, but the app has to actually work of course, on all versions of windows. Good luck with that. Limiting HW is much more doable. Even if we're all using mid range, easily affordable hardware, there's the massive disconnect between us and normal people. We use LN2. At that point we might as well be using different hardware for all it has to do with normal people. Briefly SB got them a lot closer, but those times are over. We also turn off exactly the same eye candy that most people are turning to ULTRA levels. It's a different world.