TASOS
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Posts posted by TASOS
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If I understand correctly what you're saying, then answers are in line with your question.
No,you are mistaken , they are not.
That's why i opened this thread.
In fact everyone is allowed to get points with current-gen ES, because if you have samples, then you're not an ordinary bencher and belong to Elite.No again.
It's obvious , that not everyone is allowed to get points with current gen E.S. hardware.
And if you obtain by pure luck an E.S. hardware , that doesnt make you an elite user.
So I don't see where the problem is
Are you still not seeing it ?
Read at the end of this post.
Current-gen ES are not allowed in normal competitions, so it is perfectly fine by me.
I am not talking about competitions here.
I am talking about regular submissions.
If you still managed to somehow get a current-gen ES CPU, but don't want to move to Elite, why would you insist on getting points for that CPU?
Why not ?
I am going to bench it ... right ?
Why shouldnt i get points for it ?
If your point is that ES are clearly better and no retail can beat 'em, then think about who will be on top if ES hardware was not allowed.
Don't you think same guys will be on top no matter ES or retail?
I didnt say anything at all , about that part.
That's your personal speculation.
In other words: I don't care
Have many other more important thing in real life to worry about. HWBOT for me is mostly for fun and some competition element.That's ok with me.
I may also dont care about ALL member's problems in here (for some of them , i do).
It happens , that you dont care about this specific one.
No problem.
I believe that most of us , have more important things to do , in our real life's ... but that fact is irrelevant to the question asked here.
/.
The bottom line here is :
By pure luck , i got my hands on a current E.S. hardware.
I am not an elite member and i dont qualify to be one.
Why is there such a restriction for the rest non-elite members ?
If there was a seperate elite ranking , i would understand the reason not to take part in their point award system.
But , since it's a unified point system for ALL members.
Why should one get points and the other wont.
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The English language is not my strong point , and it seems from the answers i'm getting , that i didnt express my thoughts correctly.
I'm not questioning nor asking about the requirements needed to be an elite user.
What i'm asking here is whether this privilege of beeing an elite user justifies the wright of beeing the only one allowed to get points with current gen E.S. hardware.
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Everybody can get points from ES as long as it's not current-gen. If it's current gen and you want points - move to Elite league. Where is the problem exactly?
Yes , i pointed the current gen for that reason.
That is elite only.
At this point , i am only asking as a question , to see what people here thinking about it.
Whether it seems fair or not.
Moving to Elite is not an option , when you dont have the means to be an Elite.
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An other tricky question , from this weird user-hobbyist (that's me)
Why is it consider fair (and obviously allowed) for an elite member to gain hardware and global and HTPP and GTPP points from E.S. hardware (current gen also) ... and other members cant ?
Isnt that an other example of altering ALL point awarded rankings ?
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You are on a reporting streak.
You've been reporting results from rookie rumble #12
These are rookie challenges , and new members should be given some time , some tolerance.
As i already told you , in an other thread , it's not wrong if you want to go by the book and follow the rules on par.
But ...
If that's the case , check your own results first.
:celebration: -
Your Score is not showing and should not be counted
He is a new member , and needs some time to get used to the hwbot system.
Give him some time.
You already "caused" him a blocked result for typical reason.
No problem at all , if you want to go by the book.
But you should look at your own results also
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Many thanks to Antinomy for this !!!
Orthodox Easter holidays , coming soon.
Time for some first results.
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Scores cannot be edited , if it's more than 2 days time , after submission.
Perhaps a result moderator can ?
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As i said earlier to bones , when i quoted him , i agree with most things you wrote also.
But ...
As a team captain , i had to fulfill the request of my team members , to make this current issue public , so that hwbot staff can consider (again).
I opened this thread and i believe it's noted by the staff.
My job ends here.
I'm not the one that takes decisions.
Case closed.
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I can understand your thoughts/concerns over this subject.
Those of us that don't have access to the "Good" stuff being made to go up against those that do is unfair from several points, yet to say they don't deserve what they've earned isn't fair either.
The pieces of hardware they used didn't tweak themselves - They had to do it, set it up and all - That does take experience and the simple know how to do it at all. Those same guys could do very well without these cherry-picked examples too.
Related to teams, my team as mentioned has no sponsored members or even any Elite classed benchers yet we've worked our way into the top 5. We bench any and everything we can get our grubby paws on for good reason and it does pay off.
While I do feel your pain in having to go up against those guys at the same time I feel privileged to be able to and even on occasion beat one or two of them.
I can say if I had the same or close to the access they have I could do much better than I do now and even be a real PITA in the rankings for many here but I don't, my results from for example the 5 GHz 32M Super PI comp is an example that I could. However with my recent health issues and the lack of funds due to the bills associated with these current issues I'm not able to spend the money on stuff like many here can.
Time would be another restraint with having to deal with all of this and hold a job too, it's a real struggle at times to simply hold a job with all this going on yet I do and I still find time somewhere to do a few runs.
That's how it's been for me and why I haven't been so active as of late yet I still continue on.
Each person's situation is unique and does have an effect yet we all knew going in it was like this and that's just how it is. You'll never have a system that's 100% "Right" so just manage the best you can - It's what I have to do.
I must say , that i agree with most things you wrote.
I personally dont care about points.
I'd love to see them vanish , tomorrow if possible.
I'm in to overclocking too many years and i know how "the system" works.
I know how the system worked , even before the HWBOT existance.
I lived the era of the glorious overclocking forums.
That says it all !!!
The reason i opened this thread , has nothing to do , with my personal ranking or whatever.
I mainly did it , cause some members of my team (new members , with current gen systems , even high-end) are complaining about the ranking systems as it stands now.
Cause it very easily degrades the points earned.
They are discouraged by the real fact , that an everyday high-end system , (that costs a lot of money) benchmarks to receive 1.5 points , cause it's in the same boat with the "special" hardware.
"Do it for the Team" ... i tell them.
But , even that ranking system is affected , by these "special" submissions.
So , where does this situation lead ?
They stop benching , cause they dont see their reward.
"Why bother" ? ... they tell me.
I see them publish their results in the local forums and they stop uploading them to HWBOT anymore.
And i cant do anything , to motivate them.
"Look tasos" they tell me.
"The current gen Titan card , was paper launched yesterday ... and we already have tehth's of results already at HWBOT counting as retail parts"
That's just one of the examples.
The elite member , is what the title says.
No arguments.
The Elite , has his own league , has his own ranking , and for his hard-tough effort he is awarded with top ranking and hardware points and global points.
So
Why shouldnt there be an option for these "special" submissions only , to not participate in the Team hardware and global points ?
This way , we can still offer the motivation of the Team contribution , to the everyday regular users.
What is wrong with that ?
I believe my point of view is very clear and there is no room for misinterpretation or getting wrong ideas (especially for the Elites) as written by some earlier (about punishment).
Thank you all , for reading this.
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So you Want to punish the elites because they worked harder and invested more time?
Is that the conclusion , you came up with , after reading what i wrote ?
That i want the elite users to get punished ?
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(below is is my PERSONAL opinion)
One word: absolutely.
Teams are composed of a wide range of overclockers, going from the extreme LN2 guys to enthusiasts and rookies. Not everyone has access to the same equipment, the same tools, or the same amount of time, but everyone competes within their own ability.
That someone doesn't have access to a certain type of hardware, because it's rare, unavailable, or expensive, is not a reason to say the points are not deserved.
Sorry , but
You are turning ordinary people away , from this sport.
(I still call it a hobby).
My opinion is to find a solution , that the team rankings are less affected , by these kind of submissions.
Elite users have their own league ... and it was made that way , for a reason.
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Isn't this exactly what the Elite league is for?
Yes , that's it.
And i have no problem with that.
Glad to see them compete with each other , in their own league.
But , when they belong to a team.
Why does , that special hardware , have to alter the Team rankings and league ? through the global team power points and global team hardware points ?
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Still here ...
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I'm talking to all of YOU out there.
The privileged site owner , the reviewer , the lucky lab tester , the manufacturer employee , the heavily sponsored.
All you , that are happy to get once,twice,ten,twenty times a year ... every year , your brand new shinny (just released hardware) , that demolishes competition.
Do you understand , that benching special hardware , inside a manufacturer's lab , under ideal conditions , is not fair to everybody ?
Do you acknowledge , what an advantage there is , to submit results with a just (paper launched) high-end product and gain points for that ?
Do you understand , that besides your rankings as individuals , you are heavily altering the Glogal Team Power Points ... and hardware also ?
You know you can disable points for your submissions.
Dont you ?
I dont even bother to open a discussion about wether that specific hardware is considered RETAIL or not.
Does your team , deserve those points , just because you had the opportunity to bench that special hardware ?
Dont get me wrong , here.
I'm not talking about , the place you take at the board.
You may well deserve that 1st , 2nd ... whatever place.
No problem with that.
The main issue here is , about Team Rankings.
Come on now.
There has to be a solution.
Massman ???
Those 20-30 "special users" can have a league of their own.
I thought they had (to be honest)
Why do they have to mess with us ?
Us , regular everyday people , trying to enjoy our hobby ?
Looking forward for some answers.
Ethics and honesty , people.
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Forum related.
Too much lag (sometimes) during this week.
And many database errors , randomly.
What is going on ?
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We've added a few more videos
Status updated here for those that want to give a hand with the subtitles, thanks!
Catzilla and sky diver videos are set as private ?
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Nice piece of hardware , you have there.
!!!
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First of all.
Happy Birthday !!!
Now.
I must admit that i know a few things about old cpu's
I was one of the first persons that wrote on the internet about Intel cpu markings back in 2001 ... (it was 2002 on English speaking forums , such as overclockers.com)
A good old friend from the glorious Leixlip factory was the insider for me back then.
Nevermind.
I dont want to continue ongoing this thread , although i disagree with you in a couple of points.
Perhaps , in an other place and time , just for your personal interest only.
This was a memorial challenge for a person that loved hardware in general and i am glad i participated.
Congrats to all participants !!!
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I'm not the one making a big deal whether or not the sub is valid. I know it is.
The proof is there and you have pictures. Stop the foolishness.
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P.S.
Check out the other section (thread).
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Honestly, is this really necessary?
Turrican himself added it to the database, so more than one person knows it exists.
CPU World has an entry in their database.
CPU has been dated, it doesn't really matter if it's an ES or not.
If you want to take ES into account, it may have even been earlier than 2000. Nobody knows. Point is, it's a valid CPU.
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@Tasos you asked what revision of board, its rev 1.0 does this make a difference??
Nick
I asked you about your chipset revision (not the board)
cpuz =>mainboard tab
Early stepping of the chipset where identified as revision 12 and where not so good as later stepping revision 13
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Looks like a very tough case for a moderator.
With no markings on the heat spreader you are left alone with software detection only.
And can anybody ever be sure , about when this ES cpu was produced ?
Because we are not talking about a release date here.
If we had the production code printed on the heat spreader , that would have been enough (as i see it).
What does cpuz version 1.21 show ?
Can you match the readings , of what has been verified as a P4 800 ?
Cause there's a difference in cpuid (family).
P4 ES
Mr paco ES
There is also a big difference is fabrication
P4 800 ES => Heat spreader on top left corner
Mr Paco ES = Almost centered heat spreader
Points from E.S. hardware
in Benchmark Rules
Posted
Easy.
The pure luck , is defined by 1 item a year , or 1 item per two years , or 1 item every three years ... and so on.
Yes , i could accept that , if it worked two ways.
Meaning that , retail hardware should give points only to regular users , since elite's have the exclucive privilege for E.S.
Yes you are right.
E.S. for elite only.
Retail for the rest (only) of us.
I like that scenario