Hd 3870x2

[r1ch]

@[DR]r1ch: I'll leave the poll open till Sunday evening, a week should be enough to let those who care, vote.

 

Fair enough

 

I don't think people have kind of understood the intentions of the poll...far too many references to C2D's and C2Q's which is a completely wrong comparison.

 

Dual cores and Quad cores are built as a single package on a single socket. The 3870X2 is in my eyes a dual socket card, with two 'sockets' allowing for two seperate GPUs. Yes, technically the card uses one slot.

 

From the front page comments...

 

Comment from Vak92

QX9650 - 4 cores - 1 CPU

3870X2 - 2 cores - 1 GPU

like 7950GX2...

 

Comment from AN7 OverClocker

wrong

Q9650 4 Cores 1 CPU

3870X2 2 Cores 2 GPU's

 

I fear people haven't understood the question.

 

I'm sorry that we have made you feel that way. It was not our intention.

 

We don't have closed minds. I have talked with other moderators and we all put this poll up. Of course we like to now what community think about these issues.

 

Closed mind or not, I don't see any easy solution to moderate these new rankings which would be based on amount of GPUs. So my opinion doesn't change

 

That's fair enough, and good to hear more of an explanation that just...

 

Single card is a single card. No matter how many gpu's are under the heatsink. Just quit arguing about this.

 

What do you think about the difference between a Core 2 Duo having two cores in one package under one heatsink in one socket...versus two GPUs both made independantly, stuck onto two serperate 'sockets' on a PCB with seperate RAM etc (more so with the 9800GX2)?

 

I see it in the following way

 

Single socket CPU (P4 631 / E6600 / QX9650) = Single GPU card (7600 / 8800 / 3870)

 

and then

 

Dual socket CPUs (AMD QuadFX, Skulltrail, Server stuff) = Dual GPU card(s) (3870X2, 2x 8800 in SLI , 2x 3870 in CF)

 

It's apparent there's a grey area in between where

 

3870X2 =/= 2x 3870 in CF

 

So, as others suggested, maybe a hybrid or freak category is needed for these single socket, multi gpu cards?

 

I don't know...I've talked enough, so I'll leave it all in your hands to make the final decisions

[HousERaT]

Out of curiosity, would it be that difficult to create new catagories for the hwbot staff?

[anvil]

r1ch;15595']Fair enough

 

I don't think people have kind of understood the intentions of the poll...far too many references to C2D's and C2Q's which is a completely wrong comparison.

 

Dual cores and Quad cores are built as a single package on a single socket. The 3870X2 is in my eyes a dual socket card' date=' with two 'sockets' allowing for two seperate GPUs. Yes, technically the card uses one slot.

 

[/quote']

 

You are making a mistake, aren't you?

 

If in your eyes the 3870X2 is a dual socket card why the Intel quad core shouldn't be a dual socket too? It's not a native quad core it's only two dual cores juxtaposed...

The comparison between multicore CPUs and multicore GPUs is completely valid, because the GPU is living now the evolution the CPU has already known.

 

The only reason why people care about the ranking of this 3870X2 is its scores in benchmarks, there is no real other reason.

 

Like I've already said it's only evolution of our material. The crossfire ou sli won't be dead, when both the firms (Nvidia/AMD) will spread their dual gpu card on the market. You still can plug two 3870X2 cards in your motherboard.

 

Regards.

[Margo Baggins]

I dont think a comparison of the 3870X2 being a single card can be compared to the C2D's and C2Q's. The C2D's are multi threaded processors, so providing the 2nd, or 2nd 3rd 4th cores respectively, into one package. Where as the 3870X2 is using 2 entire singular cores, on there own sockets and implements the same crossfire technology as i am using with my 2900pro's. I agree, they have cramed it onto one PCB, and now there is a short version, it isnt too much bigger than any high end card. However the point still remains its using the same technology as a multi card set up. IT IS STILL CROSSFIRE. If it was a multi-threaded processor and could run it all through the same socket, i could see this as a generative shift in results, but this isnt, they are using the same technology, just implemented in a different means. IMHO.

 

EDIT: No idea why i have Oldguy932's signature?

[anvil]

I don't know much about the technical aspects for the connection between the two GPU on the 3870X2 board but in CPUs the connection between two cores (as in a C2D) is diferent from the connection between two CPU sockets on a motherboard or not? Or it's just shorter?

 

If we put 3870X2 boards (and the futures multi GPU graphic cards) in the CF/SLI ranking don't we take the risk of having - in the future - no new card in the single card ranking?

[Margo Baggins]

If we put 3870X2 boards (and the futures multi GPU graphic cards) in the CF/SLI ranking don't we take the risk of having - in the future - no new card in the single card ranking?

 

I cant see that happening, at least not in the near future. Infact i can see moving away from multi socket gpu's to multi-threaded gpu's, there are already rumours that this will be the case with R700 cards, but we will have to wait and see.

[_LiteSpeed_]

Its ironic how much fuss there is about this issue when even the Processors are all lumped together and no one has a problem with that....Quad and Dual cores.. Each in there own class. This one issue that falls in the middle grounds. Its not a single,,,Its not a double. Scores higher than a single...Doesn't score as high as a double. Looks like ATI through a wrench in HWbots engine and it can't adjust to handle it properly. So it asks us,,,.

Things need to be broken down to more specif categories.

[_LiteSpeed_]

It runs as a single and it can compete as a double.

This is how ATI has made it to survive.

You can't fairly judge it either way if you want to be fair.

It does not compete with the nvidia 8800s at all in a single configuration, and will only beat it with a dual setup. Now it gets worse when competing against

any 8800x2. Not even in the same league.

[DeanClocked]

the logical thing to do is to change the slots to how many core's the cards have, this ensures that cards are ranked against their own type ie. same amount of cores.

 

Ranking all cards in the two categories of single card/sli-xfire is an unsophisticated and unfair ranking. For those with a single core cards placing them up on a board against multiple GPU boards does not dignify their results as it is no longer 'the best single card' because there are now essentially 2 cards on the 1 board.

[r1ch]

the logical thing to do is to change the slots to how many core's the cards have, this ensures that cards are ranked against their own type ie. same amount of cores.

 

Ranking all cards in the two categories of single card/sli-xfire is an unsophisticated and unfair ranking. For those with a single core cards placing them up on a board against multiple GPU boards does not dignify their results as it is no longer 'the best single card' because there are now essentially 2 cards on the 1 board.

 

QFT. I suggested using the number of GPU's in my first few posts. We'll see what happens...

[HousERaT]

r1ch;15773']QFT. I suggested using the number of GPU's in my first few posts. We'll see what happens...

I wonder how it would have turned out if there was a third option in the poll (in which a new category be created for these multi core, multi cpu graphics cards)? Maybe that kind of forward thinking is too innovative?

[BigAndy]

Sorry, I didn’t bothered to read all comments so apologies for not knowing everyone’s opinion…

 

I have to say that this is very sensitive topic and there was and will be different opinions but IMO there should be a separate entry on HWBOT for hybrid cards.

 

As from above you can understand that I didn’t cast my vote as I don’t agree with either option offered in poll.

[victor89]

one pcb = one card = single

[NightRaven]

its technically cf...

 

bottomline: it has 2 cores. nothing will change tt. it has TWO cores.

 

and as mentioned the category is SLI/CF. so what happened to cf? now a single card which has cf on it is rated single. so then what's the sli and cf cat for?

 

i vote sli/cf

[_LiteSpeed_]

And soon Nvidia will intro the 9600GT which is the same level as a single HD3870....

Slots, not cores for videocards

[bazx]

it will be some time before we see single gpu cards back in this group

with the power of these 2x cards

 

hwbot holds allot of power

 

the single gpu is dead

[bazx]

lol queen

 

right or wrong one thing is for sure

 

unless the next gen of single gpu cards are faster then the 2x no one will buy them

 

so you have taken control of the global benching market with this

 

manufacturers will be unable to sell single gpu cards to benching teams

[_LiteSpeed_]

As I said Nvidia is around the corner with the 9000 series witch will smoke ATIx2 again.

I don't know if HWbot has that much influence on the Graphics card market. ATIx2 for the price is fantastic deal for the performance.

Its about sales to them. They don't care about us unless they are not making a profit. This setup is in a new class all its own. By design,,,ATI,,for profit..

It is not in the same league or class of anything that has been standard.

Single, Crossfire, or SLI,,,So judge it fairly on facts, and not by what people think it should be.

[MaSell]

So now for global points we need strong sli/cf or x2. We can throw away single 8800 series card, cards with the fasters gpus on earth...

[pro]

i dont think single gpu is dead, look at 3dmark2001 my favourite game, so far its dominated by single card, and this is argueably the most skillful 3d bench...

 

i agree its hard to keep up if you want to be on top, but does anyone really need to be on top, alot of the hardest to get scores are the ones at the top of popular classes, 2900s, gts, gt, if you can get scores at the top of this range, these people can be proud of their achievements

[bazx]

Because lot's of tweakers have recently invested in 8800GT(S)'s and can't be at the top, I assume.

 

 

 

i think you miss my point a little on this

 

there is a great deal of fun to be had benching the simplest setup

 

1xgpu and 1xcpu is the the most basic 3D setup that can be benched

 

and for that reason alone i would leave the 1xgpu in there own class

[Predator]

What i see a bit of "unfair" and sorry for the OT, it's the fact of older scores being dramatically lowered in hwboints as soon as new gen kills the latest one

 

i see my 3D scores with single 8800 worthing a crap of 4 points at max , when i remember being 3rd only behind hipro and Vince in the single rankings, i put a lot of effort and LN2 in those runs and now i could get the same points benching two very very old CPUs at stock

 

i think more weight to the hardware hwboints should be addressed, especially those benchs with a lot of competition like 2900s or 8800GTX/Ultra

 

 

sorry for the OT

[Predator]

Predator, we will increase the amount of hardware points gained in popular categories shortly. As a matter of fact, we already did that adjustment, but we removed it before upgrading the engine as we want to be 100% sure the end effect is better than before.

 

Ahhh, yeah i knew you did it, and i thought it was being currently used

 

thanks for the heads up