sacha35 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Skulltrail doesn't change anything. For example 3DM06 can use only 4 cores. If you have eight or sixteen, only four of them are doing job. It will be single motherboard and basic system with huge computing power in multithreated tasks. No worries about that. and that's the way it should be. Skulltrail should get its own category for example:) regarding the VGA cards, if HD3870X2 is CF, what will happen if you put in 2x HD3870X2 ? Quad CF is in multi card, so it will be in the same category as the single X2. No I'm sorry, the HD3870X2 should be ranked as a single card product, end of story:) Hi jmke, as you can see this has been sorted already and i Quote from what SF3D has said, (Skulltrail doesn't change anything) so i take it from what he has said this will stand as a one motherboard catagree as all the rest of the freely avalible motherboards, so as these words have come from one of your Moderators I take it this will stand as one Motherboard catagree and be lumped in with the rest of the CPU's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praz Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 If it is decided that the HD3870X2 is a two card solution what happens if a 2 PCB version is released. Will it be classified as a quad? Because a quad-core CPU has a performance advantage in benches like 3d06 and wprime users aren't forced to compete in a separate class. The best rules are also the most simplistic, both in the present and with an eye towards the future. The classification of video cards as dictated by the current rules satisfies this. Crossfire and SLI should be decided by motherboard support and the number of physical slots required. If a single card is capable of running on a board without specific chipset support it should be classified as a single card. Unfortunately, to stay at the top requires the continual purchase of the latest technology. This latest round of released and soon to be released video cards is no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew pro Posted February 4, 2008 Crew Share Posted February 4, 2008 everyone has very different and understanding takes on this card, my view is that, its as hard to manage as two cards, if not more, have you tried lately trying to mount 2 pots to one of these cards, trying to troubleshoot which cards is holding you back, and everything that goes with it, i think this should be in single card rankings, anyone that manages to run one of these on subzero has deserved their points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdawall Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 i agree with pro they deserve the points if they can get these to clock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinos22 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 i voted Xfire as it's two separate cores same deal with upcoming nvidia card i reckon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousERaT Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I voted Crossfire. I think a new category should be developed for multi-core/multi-gpu cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 We can leave poll to talk Single card is the winner as i can see... Frigging hell...18 hours gone and you're already calling a winner? :/// At least let this run for a few days, hell even a week before looking at the results. That being said, if the trend continues, then it would appear as if more people want it as a single card, so I'll accept that. What has seriously disappointed me is people like the guy I've quoted and also (off the top of my head) SF3D and jmke that seem to have very closed minds, not willing to even consider another person's point of view. I find this very sad. Thank you to the rest of the hwbot team for everything they've done, and creating the poll that is reflective of a larger group of people and not just the select few who think their opinions are the only ones that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I voted for Single Card ranking. I think that the fact that there are two GPUs on this card is the evolution of the material. Dual Core CPUs are becoming the minimum configuration and the same thing will happen for graphic cards. There is no difference in the ranking between single core CPUs, dual core CPUs and quad core CPUs ; Wprimes, and 3Dmark06 are dominated by people who own a more than quad core CPU solution. This will be like this until octo core solution arrive. For the HD3870X2, it's the same thing, they are on the top of the ranking, but just before that, Geforces 8800 were at the top level. The ranking will evolve by its own when new graphic cards will arrive. CF of HD3870X2 exists so I think we have to consider that we can't do less than one HD3870X2 so it have to be considered as a single card solution. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 @[DR]r1ch: I'll leave the poll open till Sunday evening, a week should be enough to let those who care, vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 r1ch;15569']What has seriously disappointed me is people like the guy I've quoted and also (off the top of my head) SF3D and jmke that seem to have very closed minds' date=' not willing to even consider another person's point of view. I find this very sad.[/quote'] I'm sorry that we have made you feel that way. It was not our intention. We don't have closed minds. I have talked with other moderators and we all put this poll up. Of course we like to now what community think about these issues. Closed mind or not, I don't see any easy solution to moderate these new rankings which would be based on amount of GPUs. So my opinion doesn't change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 @[DR]r1ch: I'll leave the poll open till Sunday evening, a week should be enough to let those who care, vote. Fair enough I don't think people have kind of understood the intentions of the poll...far too many references to C2D's and C2Q's which is a completely wrong comparison. Dual cores and Quad cores are built as a single package on a single socket. The 3870X2 is in my eyes a dual socket card, with two 'sockets' allowing for two seperate GPUs. Yes, technically the card uses one slot. From the front page comments... Comment from Vak92 QX9650 - 4 cores - 1 CPU 3870X2 - 2 cores - 1 GPU like 7950GX2... Comment from AN7 OverClocker wrong Q9650 4 Cores 1 CPU 3870X2 2 Cores 2 GPU's I fear people haven't understood the question. I'm sorry that we have made you feel that way. It was not our intention. We don't have closed minds. I have talked with other moderators and we all put this poll up. Of course we like to now what community think about these issues. Closed mind or not, I don't see any easy solution to moderate these new rankings which would be based on amount of GPUs. So my opinion doesn't change That's fair enough, and good to hear more of an explanation that just... Single card is a single card. No matter how many gpu's are under the heatsink. Just quit arguing about this. What do you think about the difference between a Core 2 Duo having two cores in one package under one heatsink in one socket...versus two GPUs both made independantly, stuck onto two serperate 'sockets' on a PCB with seperate RAM etc (more so with the 9800GX2)? I see it in the following way Single socket CPU (P4 631 / E6600 / QX9650) = Single GPU card (7600 / 8800 / 3870) and then Dual socket CPUs (AMD QuadFX, Skulltrail, Server stuff) = Dual GPU card(s) (3870X2, 2x 8800 in SLI , 2x 3870 in CF) It's apparent there's a grey area in between where 3870X2 =/= 2x 3870 in CF So, as others suggested, maybe a hybrid or freak category is needed for these single socket, multi gpu cards? I don't know...I've talked enough, so I'll leave it all in your hands to make the final decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousERaT Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Out of curiosity, would it be that difficult to create new catagories for the hwbot staff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 r1ch;15595']Fair enough I don't think people have kind of understood the intentions of the poll...far too many references to C2D's and C2Q's which is a completely wrong comparison. Dual cores and Quad cores are built as a single package on a single socket. The 3870X2 is in my eyes a dual socket card' date=' with two 'sockets' allowing for two seperate GPUs. Yes, technically the card uses one slot. [/quote'] You are making a mistake, aren't you? If in your eyes the 3870X2 is a dual socket card why the Intel quad core shouldn't be a dual socket too? It's not a native quad core it's only two dual cores juxtaposed... The comparison between multicore CPUs and multicore GPUs is completely valid, because the GPU is living now the evolution the CPU has already known. The only reason why people care about the ranking of this 3870X2 is its scores in benchmarks, there is no real other reason. Like I've already said it's only evolution of our material. The crossfire ou sli won't be dead, when both the firms (Nvidia/AMD) will spread their dual gpu card on the market. You still can plug two 3870X2 cards in your motherboard. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo Baggins Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I dont think a comparison of the 3870X2 being a single card can be compared to the C2D's and C2Q's. The C2D's are multi threaded processors, so providing the 2nd, or 2nd 3rd 4th cores respectively, into one package. Where as the 3870X2 is using 2 entire singular cores, on there own sockets and implements the same crossfire technology as i am using with my 2900pro's. I agree, they have cramed it onto one PCB, and now there is a short version, it isnt too much bigger than any high end card. However the point still remains its using the same technology as a multi card set up. IT IS STILL CROSSFIRE. If it was a multi-threaded processor and could run it all through the same socket, i could see this as a generative shift in results, but this isnt, they are using the same technology, just implemented in a different means. IMHO. EDIT: No idea why i have Oldguy932's signature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I don't know much about the technical aspects for the connection between the two GPU on the 3870X2 board but in CPUs the connection between two cores (as in a C2D) is diferent from the connection between two CPU sockets on a motherboard or not? Or it's just shorter? If we put 3870X2 boards (and the futures multi GPU graphic cards) in the CF/SLI ranking don't we take the risk of having - in the future - no new card in the single card ranking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo Baggins Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 If we put 3870X2 boards (and the futures multi GPU graphic cards) in the CF/SLI ranking don't we take the risk of having - in the future - no new card in the single card ranking? I cant see that happening, at least not in the near future. Infact i can see moving away from multi socket gpu's to multi-threaded gpu's, there are already rumours that this will be the case with R700 cards, but we will have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_LiteSpeed_ Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Its ironic how much fuss there is about this issue when even the Processors are all lumped together and no one has a problem with that....Quad and Dual cores.. Each in there own class. This one issue that falls in the middle grounds. Its not a single,,,Its not a double. Scores higher than a single...Doesn't score as high as a double. Looks like ATI through a wrench in HWbots engine and it can't adjust to handle it properly. So it asks us,,,. Things need to be broken down to more specif categories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_LiteSpeed_ Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 It runs as a single and it can compete as a double. This is how ATI has made it to survive. You can't fairly judge it either way if you want to be fair. It does not compete with the nvidia 8800s at all in a single configuration, and will only beat it with a dual setup. Now it gets worse when competing against any 8800x2. Not even in the same league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanClocked Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 the logical thing to do is to change the slots to how many core's the cards have, this ensures that cards are ranked against their own type ie. same amount of cores. Ranking all cards in the two categories of single card/sli-xfire is an unsophisticated and unfair ranking. For those with a single core cards placing them up on a board against multiple GPU boards does not dignify their results as it is no longer 'the best single card' because there are now essentially 2 cards on the 1 board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 the logical thing to do is to change the slots to how many core's the cards have, this ensures that cards are ranked against their own type ie. same amount of cores. Ranking all cards in the two categories of single card/sli-xfire is an unsophisticated and unfair ranking. For those with a single core cards placing them up on a board against multiple GPU boards does not dignify their results as it is no longer 'the best single card' because there are now essentially 2 cards on the 1 board. QFT. I suggested using the number of GPU's in my first few posts. We'll see what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousERaT Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 r1ch;15773']QFT. I suggested using the number of GPU's in my first few posts. We'll see what happens... I wonder how it would have turned out if there was a third option in the poll (in which a new category be created for these multi core, multi cpu graphics cards)? Maybe that kind of forward thinking is too innovative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sorry, I didn’t bothered to read all comments so apologies for not knowing everyone’s opinion… I have to say that this is very sensitive topic and there was and will be different opinions but IMO there should be a separate entry on HWBOT for hybrid cards. As from above you can understand that I didn’t cast my vote as I don’t agree with either option offered in poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor89 Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 one pcb = one card = single Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightRaven Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 its technically cf... bottomline: it has 2 cores. nothing will change tt. it has TWO cores. and as mentioned the category is SLI/CF. so what happened to cf? now a single card which has cf on it is rated single. so then what's the sli and cf cat for? i vote sli/cf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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