The official Challenger 2022 Div I Round 1 thread.

[snakeeyes]

Ok so rule is e core must be full disable! Ok, good to know. Thought its enough only using 8 pcores. Ok then u rly delete my highest 8p score ?

[OVIZ Hardware Lab]

Referring to the XTU 2.0 CPU clock speed subject...

Ist this submission correct?

https://hwbot.org/submission/4976294

XTU shows 5.22 CPU-Z shows GHz and CPU-Z shows 5.245 GHz?

If yes, we might all rerun... 

[Leeghoofd]

score removed...

[snakeeyes]

So cpuz need to Show also 5.22? So oviz is right ?

[skullbringer]

why is a xtu sub getting removed for clock shown in cpu-z? 

firstly cpu-z clock is not part of the "limitations/rules", secondly cpu-z can't monitor max clock, only current and thirdly that's only recorded at time of the screenshot and not the benchmark, so that makes no sense threefold...

[snakeeyes]

Skull is right. I mean rules say only depend on xtu max clock. 

I spend two weeks to find this way. Xtu dont scale with ram or something else. So the only way is to find optimation. I found one and get punished cause the rules are not rly rules. 

 

Get changed while comp in progress. A Newcomer find a better way then a old member, so its Bug using. Cant find another Word, because rule say XTU 5.22 max Speed. I did xtu 5.22 max speed. 

Its not rly funny if u spend so much time, and rules are bend like Rubber.

Edited April 17, 2022 by snakeeyes

[Leeghoofd]

This particular mindset is what lead to  all these rules/limitations at the Bot... Remember what was the inital rule ? I guess it was 5206Mhz. 
People benched it and it turned out that XTU reads out 5.22. Now you guys bench 5.22 XTU but CPUZ reads out 5245Mhz... Try to explain it to me...

Logic prevails, ever thought why do you think we ask CPUZ too and not only XTU benchmark window?

Who's really bending the rules like rubber? Oh it's not stated in the rules, so we can abuse it and clock up higher coz XTU doesn't detect it properly...

Nice try lads, insert coin and try again... Try to beat the systems, guess what the system always wins... 

Now if you insist I can still add hwinfo too... 

 

[snakeeyes]

Ok, so it dont make a sense which Tool Monitor. Its just Max CPU clock/cache speed of 5220Mhz and not depend on the Tool which Monitor. If u use 3 all 3 must Show this max clock. Happy easter.

[skullbringer]

1 hour ago, Leeghoofd said:

This particular mindset is what lead to  all these rules/limitations at the Bot... Remember what was the inital rule ? I guess it was 5206Mhz. 
People benched it and it turned out that XTU reads out 5.22. Now you guys bench 5.22 XTU but CPUZ reads out 5245Mhz... Try to explain it to me...

Logic prevails, ever thought why do you think we ask CPUZ too and not only XTU benchmark window?

Who's really bending the rules like rubber? Oh it's not stated in the rules, so we can abuse it and clock up higher coz XTU doesn't detect it properly...

Nice try lads, insert coin and try again... Try to beat the systems, guess what the system always wins... 

Now if you insist I can still add hwinfo too... 

 

Every competition needs clear, enforceable rules, otherwise it's not a fair competition. Imagine football without a clear, straight, white goal line...

You say logic prevails, yet cpu-z only reports the clock at time of the screenshot and not of the benchmark run, so how is it useful for monitoring the clock of the cpu during the benchmark run?

XTU clock monitoring is completely fubar, as it sometimes reads several hundred MHz above or below the actual clock which HWinfo would report. I asked about this a few weeks back and never got a clear answer, other than "read the rules". Cool, so I did and followed them to the letter. 

You can add "Hwinfo running in background during benchmark run", but how is that any better if you can manipulate it even easier, by setting the polling time to several minutes, stalling the process with low priority? My 5-year old, non-existant brother can figure that stuff out. 

Isn't that the very reason why Benchmate exists? Stage 3 with Pyprime 2b via Benchmate is an amazingly fun discipline, also because there is no ambiguity around following the rules of the clock limit. That's how all the stages should ideally be. If you still want to use other benchmark software that for whatever reason can not work or is not allowed to work with Benchmate, then there will always be these kinda loopholes and people that try to use them to their advantage. That's also in the very nature of every competition. 

Ideally you would even want to have a standardized "HWbot OS" image that is completely read only and allows for no tampering at all, so that actually only the hardware and its configuration matter. But until we get there, and Benchmate is already a big step in that direction, there will always be tweaks and greyzones that people will use to their advantage, like tesselation in 3DMark or whatever trickery that HWbot rules officially take into consideration by now. 

Even though I don't find it nice to get talked down to like in the post I'm responding to, I'm not gonna take issue with that or make it personal. 

However, what I do take issue with is the changing of rules during the course of a competition. It already happened during the last stage of GSkill Tweakers where suddenly another Benchmate version was legal to use, while before that I had spent several weeks to get the only previously legal version running on Win7. So I'm kinda getting PTSD now that you consider adding Hwinfo to the XTU stage and thus invalidating previous submissions...

To add some more constructive criticism, I think if there is ever the need for the change of rules during a competition, there should be a poll sent to all participants where they have a few days time to agree, object or withhold if they don't care. If noone objects until the deadline, the rule change is admitted. Other "sporting organizations" do it just like that, too.

Overclocking competitions are extremely fun, but they have to be fair. If loopholes in the rules are found, brushing them aside and calling for the "spirit of the rules" to be adhered isn't a solution. Instead those loopholes should be openly talked about and addressed in a transparent and fair way. Because only then can we grow as competitiors and as a community of enthusiasts. 

[snakeeyes]

Can u check my overall Score? It shows 136 but its 142 ^^.

[Leeghoofd]

If there's one game that is the perfect example of too many rules that must be football... Many referees interpret them in their own way, mostly being pressured by the heat of the moment or the lack of time to take a swift decision. Even the VAR ( especially in Belgium) is drama and allows maybe only 80-85 minutes of effective playtime and even its decisions are hit and mis. Again confused by correct implementation of the abundance of rules

Remember there is no benchmark that can't be broken/bugged, not even BM is fully bulletproof in clock detection, but its the best and most secure we can get, thx to Mat's hard work. However that would limit us to the integrated BM suite... Which in the end would become boring as we are looping the same set of benchmarks over and over again...
We have to wait if Mat can integrate a new benchmark into the BM suite. But everyone wants to avoid another Geek drama, so it better be handled officially.

Again the initial rules were set at 5206Mhz , though XTU detected for some users 5.22. So we changed the rules for the better and allowed 5.22 XTU and to give users to opportunity to bench at real 5206Mhz clocks. Now if you can bench and XTU detects 5.22 but CPUZ detects 5246Mhz, (even if only for one second) than you are in the grey zone as your score did the exact opposite of what everybody was experiencing before. 

Changing rules is non standard, but two 2 days before the end of competition a poll is impossible to do.. FYI we have discussed the G.Skill Tweakers on Discord amongst participants, so its not a "now let us do this my way thingy". 

I have to rely on common sense and use my peasant logic... Which is really the only way to survive in this place as a moderator ?

[Leeghoofd]

52 minutes ago, snakeeyes said:

Can u check my overall Score? It shows 136 but its 142 ^^.

recalced

[suwitcha]

Please help to remove my XTU score, I am new and submit score with E core, now I will run again with P core but overall number is low so system not allow me to submit new score

[Leeghoofd]

2 hours ago, suwitcha said:

Please help to remove my XTU score, I am new and submit score with E core, now I will run again with P core but overall number is low so system not allow me to submit new score

I deleted them all, plz resub the one you want to be upped

[suwitcha]

19 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

I deleted them all, plz resub the one you want to be upped

Thank you, just resubmit with 8P core, 

[GtiJason]

What are the current rules when it comes to Manufacturer Binned hardware, specifically when it comes to using current gen products such as ram, cpu or motherboard ?
I assume this forces you into the "Elite" class but are these allowed to be used outside of Open Division Leagues or Competitions and since the only hardware that really shows up as "ES" would be Intel Qualification Samples / Engineering Samples is there even a way to separate these out ?

[Leeghoofd]

It's all about honesty right... Hwbot can't determine  if you received a media sample or a binned sample in case you are e. g. a hardware reviewer. Does a binned CPU from Der8auer bought at Caseking or one bought here on the forum from Splave automatically means you need to go Elite? Nope. 

 

The principle is simple: Sponsored OCers should register themselves in the Elite category. Getting freebies with specific bios support or binned memory should trigger the individual to step up to Elite class. 

[suwitcha]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:10 PM, suwitcha said:

Thank you, just resubmit with 8P core, 

I submit new score with 8P core enable but it seem like my single core still report by divide by 16, did I make anything wrong?

[Leeghoofd]

3 hours ago, suwitcha said:

I submit new score with 8P core enable but it seem like my single core still report by divide by 16, did I make anything wrong?

If you disable ALL the E cores, you manually submit with 12900KS (8P) in stead off 12900KS

12900KS (8P) divides by 8

12900KS divides by 16