Christian Ney Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) 3DMark01 default settings VS Hardware limitations As beacause of rules we can't submite scores with default settings, and scores (with for exemple Voodoo cards) are always moderated(Removed) and of course we want for the sake of OverClocking have best score with these vantage cards. I have opened this thread to think about it. What happen, One of my first submission on HWBot was with a 3dfx Voodoo3 2000 PCI card ( I was too young to see it wasn't default settings ) so it has been removed, OK nothing bad it's rules, but why are these card on the website ? for 2d ranking Today I have seen a submission with a IGP that doesn't support 32Bit( so running 16bit) submited by a moderator. there is something weird here !!!! Why moderators are removing our submission and after that they are submitting themself ???!!! Something has to be done here ! There is three choices : ( that I have found of course ) 1- Remove cards that cannot run default settings ( that's the easy way ) 2- Create rules for each old cards ( that are hardware limited ) that will showed on the info page of the card that allows us to submite without running default settings. ( that's the hardest way and also " for the sake of OverClocking" way ) 3- Let cards on the website, let people submite scores and continue to reporte/moderate/remove them. ( will give more work to the moderators that have already got a lot of work to keep this website clean ) If the 2nd choice is choosen, we have to find a way to prove that the only setting changed is the one "hadware limited" one. Beacause on the score the only thing said is "not run at default setting", it is not written which one. Kind of hardware limitation (That I know) : 16Bit Z-Buffer EDIT : allowed by the rules Max resolution D3D T&L EDIT : allowed by the rules texture compression EDIT : Allowed by the rules Not enough memory the last one is very particular, we have to set specific rules for it like : If the bench cannot be run @ 1024x768x32 due to memory limitation, run it @ 800x600x16. Here we can see that some hardware limitations are allowed, why not the others ? Here we are on the forum, So of course we are here do think and discuss about. Want MM, RB, Moderators advices and also yours. PS : Wish my english is as good that you can understand, if there is something wrong or a word that has to be changed PM me and I will edit ASAP. Thx for your participation Edited December 9, 2010 by Christian Ney words correction, add some limitations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 I will create a list of cards with the "Hardware Limitation" names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Today I have seen a submission with a IGP that doesn't support 32Bit( so running 16bit) submited by a moderator. Link please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 Link please. No link. ( if I wanted to add the link, I would have had it to the thread ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 - these cards are here cause if you submit a 2D score with this card on the rig you may want to show it - if you find an incorrect submission, report it, user, mod or admin is not the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) - these cards are here cause if you submit a 2D score with this card on the rig you may want to show it- if you find an incorrect submission, report it, user, mod or admin is not the point Of cours they can be here for 2D(CPU) scores but as we can submite with them for 3D, there is nowhere where it is said "Do not submite 3D scores with this card because it cannot run default settings". And as we want to overclock, and as they can run 3DMark01 (even if it's not at default setting ) I think you've already done that with Unigine Benchmark ( default settings is DX11, and you allowed DX9 card to run it (in a differente cathegory BTW). I know it's a bad exemple but it's the same. Why are you allowing DX9 card to continue living, and not "Hardware limited" cards ? Edited September 10, 2010 by Christian Ney words changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Cause they are not limited for all benchmarks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) Cause they are not limited for all benchmarks If we consider Unigine as a DX11 Benchmark ( Which it is), yes they are limited Edited September 10, 2010 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 that is why I have written : for ALL the BM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) that is why I have written : for ALL the BM unigine is part of the ALL, :D, ok you win this round, but that cant be consider here because 3DMark01 is the first BenchMark and these card we are talking about are too old so then can only run the first benchmark of the website which is 3DMark01. Maybe before 2001 they were other benchmarks that these cads were able to run at default settings, I am too young to know, but if yes, so they also can run all anterior benchmarks. Like you said for unigine and DX9. Edited September 10, 2010 by Christian Ney bencark => benchmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 So Thor's opinion is to keep everything unchanged ( choice n°3 ) or remove ''3D tab'' for ''Hardware limited'' cards ( choice n°1 ) and of course keep ''2D tab'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Thor has no opinion He is trying to apply the rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Day Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 The rules are quite clear about how each benchmark can and must be run. The bottom line is run the benchmarks at the settings required as stated by the rules. If hardware can not run the benchmark in the manner required by the rules, then that hardware is not acceptable. Nice and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) The rules are quite clear about how each benchmark can and must be run. The bottom line is run the benchmarks at the settings required as stated by the rules. If hardware can not run the benchmark in the manner required by the rules, then that hardware is not acceptable. Nice and simple. That's true no doubt, but now one other issue is coming out, what about cards that are able to run only few GT, and not all due to "hardware limitations". These scores are allowed it runed at defaults quality settings but not default benchmark settings as one or two tests has been skipped due to hardware limitation Edited September 10, 2010 by Christian Ney qualities => quality, avle => able Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) Thor has no opinionHe is trying to apply the rules True, I have to change the world opinion into ''way'', maybe it would be better Edited September 10, 2010 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 If the cards weren't meant to be benched, why are there rankings for them at all? dx9 only cards don't have vantage rankings as they don't support dx10. Then these old cards should have all benchmarks disabled. I can't really see the harm in letting people bench these cards in 16bit mode or whatever. Rules are rules, but common sense counts as well. Who has a disadvantage if these cards get an exception to the 01 rules? I think no-one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Day Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 That's true no doubt, but now one other issue is coming out, what about cards that are avle to run only few GT, and not all due to "hardware limitations". These scores are allowed it runed at defaults qualities settings but not default benchmark settings as one or two tests has been skipped due to hardware limitation Really??? Which benchmark or benchmarks can be submitted as valid to HWBOT without all the required individual tests having been run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 @ 1Day There is a lot of cards, but I will show you only one for exemple : http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1021987_christian_ney_3dmark_2003_radeon_7000_sdr__radeon_ve_sdr_39_marks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Day Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 WOW I did not know we could submit a result without completing all the tests required for the benchmark. Thank you - just shows we learn something new every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 WOW I did not know we could submit a result without completing all the tests required for the benchmark. Thank you - just shows we learn something new every day. np Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 01 works without nature as well:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 No link. ( if I wanted to add the link, I would have had it to the thread ). No need to get snarky dude. It's just without a link, it makes you less believeable. WOW I did not know we could submit a result without completing all the tests required for the benchmark. http://hwbot.org/community/submissio...e_sdr_39_marks Can somebody from the staff please confirm that you can enter a valid submission without actually running the entire benchmark please? This could open a lot of doors. tia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 to me yes you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Sure you can, but I can't see how that's going to make you pwn the rankings, if you remove a subtest a card can run, you'll end up with a serious disadvantage vs. the other benchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 11, 2010 Author Share Posted September 11, 2010 No need to get snarky dude. It's just without a link, it makes you less believeable. Everything's fine, the fact is I don't want to aim any moderator, he is not the only one I have seen with an ''hardware limited'' card result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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