mickulty
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Posts posted by mickulty
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Be interesting to see what 8Gbit D-die does on a chip from either team with a better memory controller, I know you've said this 9900K isn't great.
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s775 P4 and s478 AGP would make great team cup stages
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If there's a 3000G comp, I'm going to use a b-series motherboard. Cheapest on OCUK is the Asrock B450M-HDV R4.0 last time I checked.
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The 210 is slow enough that any bench would be GPU bound in a reasonable configuration, so it would be possible to use Aquamark or 3Dmark2001SE for example. Just saying
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15 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:
I'll do a Massman on you lot and make a poll, you pick the card you want
Could we wait for the aussies to wake up and give their suggestions, and say one suggestion per person? Count mine as the 210, since it's not as similar to the 5450 aas Caicos would be. Cooler mounting is fine, just means people can get creative rather than slapping on a tek-9, and they don't draw enough power to damage the motherboard unlike some bigger cards - of course a short could damage the mobo but the same is true of anything.
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6 minutes ago, bigblock990 said:
People asked for suggestions, so I made my suggestion.
I stated US in my post, so thought that showed what market I checked. To be specific I just went on ebay and looked at the sold listings for gtx 950.
Doing the same for ebay uk shows several 950 sold for 40-50gbp. Checking amazon uk 3000G is 44gbp, so unsure why you bring up the issue of price?
I wasn't sure about price/availability in other markets that is why I asked when I made the suggestion.
How do you relate this to Caicos core cards?
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Old benches are good anyway. Aquamark and legacy 3DMarks don't cost anything, one less barrier to new people.
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Just now, yosarianilives said:
Caicos is essentially a rehash of last year. It's basically just cedar core 2.0. I think we should do a new arch. If small maxwell is out then we should look at a small gcn or small fermi. We honestly could even do tesla or small kepler but I honestly have no idea of global availability of them.
Tesla's a good idea, the Geforce 210 seems pretty good for availability. And is actually CHEAP.
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2 hours ago, bigblock990 said:
I suggest GTX 950. Looks like avg used price $40-60 in US. How is availability for the rest of the world??
Not sure what used market you're looking at but in the UK "buy it now" listings for the GTX 950 start at nearly £80, Caicos core cards can be had for £10. 950s also seem to typically have the QFN package controllers that aren't suitable for someone's first time modding. As far as global availability, looking on amazon.in there's one model of GTX 950 available for a single third-party seller for the equivalent of $320 US. I honestly think the 950 falls down on every one of the critera @zeropluszero set out.
On the plus side: it can run Dx12 benches and GPUPI. Oh and I guess it's easier to mount a tek9 to it.
Don't know why you're casting around for other hardware options when Caicos is right there to be honest.
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There is a much better reason to go back to discrete GPU that any of the ones posted so far (I really don't buy into the "I don't like it being called cheapaz" argument).
It occured to me while reflecting on @yosarianilives's comment that we're actually struggling a bit for a good discrete GPU option. The RX 550 is not cheap at all, though yos isn't wrong about it being one of the cheapest new options. Even the 1030 wasn't that cheap, nor would a 1030 DDR4 be.
There is a good reason for this. The market seems to be moving away from cheap discrete GPUs, because integrated graphics are very good these days. It's also worth noting thhat modern cheap GPUs are moving away from SO type packages for controllers that are easy to work with, towards QFN packages that are a right pain in the proverbial and not the best introduction.
Thinking about these factors, I have to doubt whether a proper cheapaz chips competition with new hardware will be possible in future years.
This year, it is possible. The AMD Caicos core, as seen in the R3 230 and HD 6450, is still widely available (including areas with a less good used market, eg new cards are available on amazon.in) - though it's no longer supported by the latest drivers, and presumably EOL so even that is going away sooner rather than later. We'll have Oland in the future but that might not need hardmods for voltage control anyway.
I still think that a 3000G comp is a good idea but realising that cheapaz-type GPU competitions may die in the near future, I think we should make the most of the options we have now - even if it wouldn't be the most optimal way to get new people involved.
How a Caicos comp could look:
Limitations:
- Use only HD 6450 (GDDR3, 64bit), HD 6450 (GDDR3, 32bit), HD 7450, HD 8450, R5 230, R5 235, R5 235X (this intentionally excludes GDDR5 models which would be harder to find)
Stages:
- Stage 1 (legacy, tweakable): 3Dmark2001SE? Aquamark?
- Stage 2 (modern, straightforward): 3DMark Sky Diver? Fire Strike?
- Stage 3 (middling age): 3DMark Vantage? Unigine heaven?
- Stage 4 (weird): 3DMark Ice Storm Extreme? Catzilla 720p?
- Stage 5 (tiebreak): Fire Strike Ultra
Sadly GPUPI doesn't run on Caicos, as it doesn't support double precision, otherwise I'd suggest that for a stage.
Timing-wise if it's 5 stages as outlined here, 2 months would make sense: Feburary 1 to March 31. It could be cut down to 3 stages (maybe aqua/01, vantage/heaven, catzilla) and just run over Feburary I suppose.
Possible other limitations to make sure I'm not too popular with anyone:
- Background change 2 weeks before the end
- Banning LN2, Cascade and LHe, as dry ice is more widely available without so much entry cost and to make chilled water more competitive. This would mean mandating system pictures, and requiring that if dry ice is used the dry ice is visible in system pictures.
If a 3000G competition could run alongside this I'd be very happy, alternatively 3000G (and 775 Pentium 4) could become team cup stages. I think having to change the name just because 3000G doesn't focus on hardmodding is silly, but it's probably less effort to come up with a new name than to keep arguing with people who care too much about it. However if those people want it to have a different name so much, I leave it to them to suggest a good one.
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A great way to find out if a CPU+iGPU based competition works well to attract people would be to stop whining and run one, since none of the complainers have any better suggestions.
I'd love to try and address concerns, but this doesn't seem like raising legitimate concerns, just not liking an idea because it's different - even though as @zeropluszero said the G3258 was a good one and this is actually cheaper by launch MSRP with cheaper motherboards having OC options.
The people reeling off parts lists for top-end boards and memory are being disingenuous by picking out the hardware that would be needed to put out the best possible scores and win. If you look at what would be needed to *win* a competition on a cheap GPU, you also have to include an LN2 pot, dewar, LN2 and quite possibly multiple cards to bin.
Saying that a target audience of people with a 3600X definitely wouldn't swap out CPU to go ham on a 3000G is disingenuous when in the next breath there's an implication that these people definitely would be happy to swap out GPU in order to put a card with wires hanging off it in their precious gaming rig.
Maybe people need a reality check. Here's the kind of interest a competition post on r/overclocking can generate: https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/63v4or/calling_all_roverclocking_hwbot_team_members_asus/
Here's the interest it generates when the competition is based on hardmodding: https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/bchxuz/cheapaz_chips_season_3_is_live_great_chance_to/
To add weight to this, I've also taken the time to poll the 'Actually Hardcore Overclocking' patreon community. Here's the message:
And here are the results after the first 30 minutes:
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Constructive suggestions y/n....?
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ALL PRICES IN GBP, but happy to ship internationally
Asus RX 470 Strix 4GB, card doesn't seem that good (1350 core 1950 mem in vantage at stock volts and normal ambients, hynix AJR memory) and also I don't have the hardware to make the most of it anyway, £75+postage.Images and screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/YFgPkb9XFX RX 580 GTR-S, card is meh clocks-wise, PCB for these models is nice (same as RX 480 GTR), has red LED fans. £100+postage (whereas lesser msi armour models ended on ebay auction for >£120 yesterday).
Images: https://imgur.com/a/9w5jXkl
Clocks (NB: low ambient, around 5-10C. Don't remember the voltage but wasn't insane.) https://hwbot.org/submission/4279382_mickulty_3dmark11___performance_2x_radeon_rx_580_22162_marks
DDR2 believed to be Micron D9GMH/D9GKC (based on clocks/timings), binned for 500MHz (DDR2-1000) 4-4-4-12 2.2V. This is about in the middle of the sticks I tested. 2x OCZ SLI sticks, 1x Adata Vitesta stick. £2.50+postage each
Images: https://imgur.com/a/W0Ed908
GPUs are going on ebay soon where they'll probably sell for more even after fees, get them while they're cheap.
Postage will depend on item but for GPUs should be under £10 to UK and for memory less than £2. EU or international will depend on country, more than happy to provide a quote to anyone with a passing interest.
Current international quotes:
- GPU(s) to Netherlands: £15 (one or both) by DPD. This should be the same for other EU countries well served by DPD, but sadly not all EU countries are.
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Windows not activated, mods pls delete
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Just now, Obijuan83 said:
Is that ok?
Yes. I'm glad you see that. Hope you're no longer worried about a score being up for a day or two.
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Just now, Obijuan83 said:
I have a 17'' monitor and some part of image is ''Blocked''
Ok delete them but its not fair to block only my scores...
How long were they up for?
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1 minute ago, Obijuan83 said:
Weird for example is that the mod which is 2nd in place blocked my cb scores with g530 and g2020
Were they valid scores?
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2 minutes ago, Obijuan83 said:
The score you posted not having 1.91cpuz its for competitions and its not getting seasonal points...
Its weird that you insist against the rules...
Ok, here's one that is getting season points: https://hwbot.org/submission/4318750_obijuan83_pifast_core_i5_750_18sec_440ms
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1 hour ago, Obijuan83 said:
You call us who use 1.91 cpuz or the mods who decide to have these rules stupid?
Please use better language
I personally forgive you for calling me stupid but mods maybe not
That's not what he said, at all. Please don't try to twist the words of others, it's not nice.
47 minutes ago, Obijuan83 said:So not the same rules for everyone till he uploads the right screen?
- If he claimed it was a backup score or "found on a USB" it would actually be valid anyway.
- Using discretion to leave it up temporarily for discussion doesn't benefit ObscureParadox, only other members who can see what's being talked about.
- Besides, you also have an x265 score in 2020 season without cpu-z 1.91 or later visible, and it's been up for 5 days already: https://hwbot.org/submission/4332330_ Same rules for everyone = ObscureParadox's score should stay up for at least another 5 days, since yours has.
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Looking forward to the rebench with CPU-Z version showing. 0.8 when? :-)
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9 hours ago, zeropluszero said:
why not repeat the last comps?
7 hours ago, yosarianilives said:If we do that we should do 1030, I got one modded Galax ready to go
There's your answer...
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@zeropluszero I appreciate the input but is there a conclusion to all this? Superpi was already suggested for both, and global availability is a bit limiting for GPUs unless we either go expensive or repeat a past comp. We could do a Caicos competition but I think showing people the joys of dirt cheap s775 is a noble cause. 775+Caicos is an option, but I'm a bit hesitant about prescribing both platform and GPU.
Tweakable benchmarks are good but I think relevant benchmarks are important too, even if they have the "downside" of being insufficiently tweakable.
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1 minute ago, yosarianilives said:
IMHO the spirit of cheapaz is hard mods. AFAIK it started out as a comp centered around encouraging people to take out the iron and IMHO it should stay that way. If we don't want to do a graphics card then I think mobo igp is good cause most mobos with igps suck and require hard mods. Also specific mobo igps may be tough to acquire but in general low end mobos with igp shouldn't be. So perhaps don't say do <this> mobo igp and just say comp is limited to mobo igp?
Even good 775 boards probably benefit from a recap by now, and B350/B450 can be highly competitive for 3000G if you voltmod the memory VRM. There's your hardmods
But yeah it's true this would be more about "hey guys you can OC cheap!" and getting people into OC, rather than getting OCers into hardmods the way past cheapaz tried to. Personally I think that's a good thing.
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4 minutes ago, Bilko said:
I like the idea of the 3000G, It's a cheap unlocked part with an iGPU so you can have both 2D and 3D stages for it, it'll also run on a cheap B350 board.
Also removes the possibility of using a higher end CPU to gain a couple extra points overall with a low end dGPU.
SuperPI (32M of course), X265 4k, 3DMark06 and Sky Diver/GPUPI 1B would be my votes.
For a tiebreaker stage Mem freq would be fun to see or 3DMark11 Physics is something else that could work.Does GPUPI run on the Vega 3? That would be cool. Good balance with 3DMark06 needing memory performance and GPUPI probably being all GPU core.
HWBot Team Cup design thread 2020
in HWBOT Competitions
Posted
Suggestions from the Cheapaz thread that I think could make sense for team cup:
s775 pentium 4 would make sense as a DDR2 stage. IMO there's no need to specify socket, just arch - if someone wants to use one of the 478 DDR2 boards with a 915 chipset, good luck to them. I'd like to suggest HWBOT x265 1080p - it should be sub-20 minutes (shorter than superpi 32M and wprime 1024M on this platform), and while it's beneficial to get the right CPU and OS setup it'll run on anything. It hasn't been benched as extensively as other things on the platform, so there's less chance someone can just load up their old settings to run the stage, but this also means less points for a strong score which is a negative and it's harder to know if your score is good which could be seen as either good or bad.
478+AGP and AMD+AGP 3D sound fun, I'd like to suggest something that's more CPU-heavy on the fastest cards - maybe 01 or aquamark, or perhaps 05...? I don't really know much about 05 other than it's more CPU heavy than 03. Much as I'd like to increase the market value of my 2600XT, 3850 and 4650 DDR2 AGP cards, I think it would be better if teams that don't get hold of top cards aren't completely screwed and teams that do aren't automatically doing well.
The AMD option would be a very interesting DDR1 stage because it'd force a non-optimal motherboard for the socket and reward the collectors who already have and know a good 939 AGP board (to be clear: I am not among them, I'm thinking of warp9 guys). It looks like last year there was a 478+AGP stage (3DMark99 Max), so AMD DDR1 + AGP is a good idea.