Jump to content
HWBOT Community Forums

Xtreme Addict

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    2403

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    2

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Xtreme Addict

    MOA 2013 Discussion

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted · Edited by Xtreme Addict

    i promise you retail haswell will win this comp for sure!

     

    Yap... cause ES are not allowed in MSI Online contests :D

     

    I am not sure if it's fun... and I don't see WRs with such frequency. I only want to see good retail chip!

    The official Pro OC Cup Q3'13 thread.

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted

    If you have any contacts where I can buy those ES cpus... send me a PM ;)

     

    About hardmods there is a second side - the ability of vmods distinguish now ocers, that's my opinion. There are still some guys in top which can't solder a simple trimpot ;) Cause with boards and Lightnings everything is sometimes just too easy. I am not telling that's it's bad. That's my thought though. Let's be honest, how many guys modded heavily 7970 ref card for MOA 2012 or 2013? ;)

    The official Pro OC Cup Q3'13 thread.

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted · Edited by Xtreme Addict

    Is it a bit weird that you are ok with allowing the thing that you have access to and can use, but want to ban the thing you don't have?

     

    Epowers could be bought from EVGA EU Store some time ago, it was the fault of OCers who hadn't bought it cause they preferred Lightnings. Those were retails. Moreover, EVGA soon will sell new batch of much more powerful and those also will be in EU shop from what I know. It's not the same. Moreover, in GPUs you can always try to play with Lightnings (like 780 GTX which maybe can reach Titan), so it's not that you have totally no choice. Second thing is that for Epower... you need to have skills, courage and will to mod the card, total noob won't do it. With CPU you only put it in the socket. Epower is some kind of hardmod, we can't ban hardmods cause those are impossible to track. We can't mod CPU to be a better... But we can track in CPU-Z if CPU is an ES or not.

    I only want to see some good results with retails, and if they are okay, ES are fine for me. I know that there are guys who tested 100+ retails now...

    The official Pro OC Cup Q3'13 thread.

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted · Edited by Xtreme Addict

    Software is easy, you can always ask some good guys for a copy ;) About SOC - depends from the series, most of SOC need really crazy vmods because of shit controllers used, or only ES cards have software voltage control (like SOC 5870 - additional Winbond controller for VGPU). SOC is different league - GB is not doing anything to make those interesting for OCers in my opinion. But there are Lightnings, there are Matrix, DCU2... :)

     

    ES cpus are something different than Epowers, Epowers can be bought, soon new batch will be for sale. Moreover, if you have enough knowledge, you can create yourself separate PWM from some dead GPU or even something like Hipro5 created, ddr maximizer ;) We can't make our own CPU.

     

    I have nothing agaist ES if they are like retails, but not GT A0 history again. Show us some good retails and everyone will stop whining or if there aren't any, ban ES :D

    MOA 2013 Discussion

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted

    i think it would be smart for MSI to only allow haswell, while it's still fresh they can get many world records from this qualifier :)

     

     

    What WRs my friend? On what? On retails where you are fighting for 6.1-6.2 GHz CPU-Z and play 5.7-6 GHz 3D or on ES which can run 3D 6.5 GHz?

     

    ;]

    The official Pro OC Cup Q3'13 thread.

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted

    No... it's PRO Cup which is supposed to have some prices and we have to buy dedicated hw for stages, it is a show "which should bring new blood in OC Community". ES Haswells are much much better (QE6H) than retails and can't be bought, so I vote to ban them, I don't see those ES Haswells to bring more blood in OC Community, I see the opposite.

    MOA 2013 Discussion

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted

    hmm you make some very valid points there, the 780 might make up for the 100mhz lost in faster memory clock, since we've seen how important memory clock is for these new benchmarks. Maybe 780 is a viable option, thanks XA

     

    I think it's more like 275 GTX vs 285 GTX. The best 285 GTX were faster than 275 GTX, but most of 275 GTX clocked MUCH higher and could beat average 285 GTX.

     

    I am sure that 780 GTX will clock a bit higher, or more much more easy to get 1800 GPU, which will not beat the best Titan, but will be competitive overall.

    MOA 2013 Discussion

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted

    There was time and place for changing rules, after some complaints new rules (for qualifier) were added. Changing HW during competition is forbidden in my opinion, cause some guys simply did some results to pass for 2nd round in order to fight for the ticket. When someone sees rules, he can adapt, make strategy. In my personal opinion, rules can be changed only in one situation - when all participants want it and it would make competition better (for instant - adding additional prizes) or doing like Ronaldo says one big Semi-final with 9 places (more easy to qualify I think, no restrictions like one user per country).

     

    About Titan - all Titans are accepted, but must use MSI XOC bios (with MSI in GPU-Z), which will be available before 2nd round. There is no restriction to MSI Titan, cause MSI only sells Titans in APAC region.

     

    About dying Titans - those who Epowered (or used some other custom VRM like 2900XT) know that those cards are not easy to die. Much more tough than lightnings. Only one condition - separate VRM. The problem in Titans is too weak VRM and that's all. If you want to use 780 GTX - it has the same VRM. I am not sure if non refs will be available for 2nd round, so there is the same problem.

     

    BTW

     

    GTX 780 + 100 MHz GPU = GTX Titan (talking on LN2, the same mem frequency). Moreover GTX 780 has lower amount of memories, so I am sure those can clock a bit higher. GPU is consuming less V and is running not that hot. I am sure that GTX 780 if properly modded, can catch Titan. Let's be honest, only Vince, Ronaldo, GB HQ and Aristidis were able to squeeze 1700+ form Titans. Most Titans with epowers ended 1600-1650 GPU. I am 100% that GTX 780 can match it.

    The official Pro OC Cup Q3'13 thread.

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted

    I buy the mobos in regular stores (wiredzone and superbiiz). CPUs... yes, ebay - and usually from sellers who ship worldwide. Memory isn't hard either, I use 16 random 2gb sticks (no ECC, we're talking PSC sticks that I've bought on ebay). Cheap and easy to find everywhere. 1gb sticks are fine, too, got 16 1gb 1333mhz samsungs running in a different setup as we speak. The fact that the server boards don't really support overclocking is only partially true, there is a modded BIOS for one of the supermicro boards allowing HTT adjustments. For mp you've got software. They're fragile, though... so prepping it for benching is time consuming (I must've spent 10+ hours with the dremel to cut all those brackets and sinks). The only real difference between these boards and a dual socket workstation (w/server chips) one (SR-2, SR-X, Z7S WS and so on) is that they're designed to handle overclocking - but when did that ever become a limitation in this game? I'd say that the Titans are equally designed for overclocking as the SM 4P boards... it doesn't take much to kill a Titan either. But: SR2 and SkullTrail were accepted earlier, and if the E5-2xxx series had at least one model with an unlocked MP we'd see people running Ln2 on those like crazy - just like we did with SR2 earlier. Whether the mobo maker is Supermicro/Tyan or EVGA/ASUS doesn't really matter.

     

    You could probably sell the server to some folder/WCG user or whatever - they're worth the money if you're into those things. 1/3 of the price? No way. You'd probably get close to the same percentage loss as with Titans. I don't see 4P setups go for close to nothing in folding forums. A bit cheaper because they're sold between folders, but that's reasonable - like if I'd get a nice deal on a decent 4770k from a teammate.

     

    To sum it up: servers are a tad more difficult to sell, but there is a market for such things. Overclockability through BIOS and software exists. The platform is cheaper than the high end GPU ones, but harder to find locally. All in all, I do not see any reason to exclude these from the Pro cup. Plus, it's just one out of 5 stages. It's enough that one teammate can do the benching. If the total costs are too high, maybe we should not do both multi-GPU and multi CPU in the same cup... or none at all (no multi-CPU = no multi-GPU for me, either you accept the cost and risk of running these "insane" setups, or you don't).

     

    I understand your point, but still I claim it's not suitable for PRO CUP and should be banned. All server parts in Poland are for special order, are too expensive for normal users. No one in Poland is folding, so only sell to foreign country... it's not so easy as it should. And I am sure that in other countries it's also the same like this (not talking about USA or Taiwan)

     

    Yap 4x Titan is not also the cheapest and most easy setup (if you want to do it correctly), but as you saw in last PRO Cup 4x 7970 were close to Titans. You didn't have to spend money on 4x Titans, this time there is cheaper option - 780 GTX, and soon non refs should be available. It's still expensive but much more sensible than multi cpu, cause few guys before PRO CUP liked to push 4x gpu setups for WRs and so on... from few generations.

    The official Pro OC Cup Q3'13 thread.

    in HWBOT Competitions

    Posted · Edited by Xtreme Addict

    Nope. 4x titans cost more than a 4 server chips + mobo. I think the latter can be had for about $2k, so half the price. That includes a brand new motherboard, too - so in terms of cost, cinebench didn't kill the field. It's just that most people prefer to buy 4 GPUs rather than 4 CPUs regardless of cost.

     

    Yes, if you are buying from ebay all over the world, have friends to get them shipped and so on, you can buy those CPUs not so expensive + board. Of course you were looking for ES cpus cause those have unlocked multi. You know that I admired your work a lot and what you did is fantastic. But in my opinion it's not PRO CUP material. Xeons and Opterons (I am talking about those real, which can work in multi CPU configuration) are not desktop material, but servers - it's PRO market, which is very expensive. For us, overclockers and gamers we have our "K" series, "Extreme Edition" or "Black Edition". Moreover, board vendors don't produce server OC boards. It's not this market.

     

    Don't get me wrong but from what I remember PRO CUP was created to make OC community stronger, to get some new fresh blood, but now I think it's more and more getting old ocers away. Seriously, if there are some cinebench or wprime stages for multi CPU configurations - I am out, cause it's not my market and I can't fight with it and here is why:

     

    - I am mostly buying hw in Poland, from warehouses or shops, I checked and cheapest Opteron 16C cost 1000 euro here. Even if I had $ to buy platform for one stage (let's count about 6K euro with ECC mems, board, LN2), what would I do with it later? Try to sell, okay... who will buy it in Poland? I am not company, and only PRO companies buy such HW with an invoice, I am private user, I can't give invoices... so in the best case I could sell it after many weeks (or months) of waiting for 1/3 price? It's impossible to do for me.

     

    - I don't see connection of server parts in overclocking/gaming market, so I am not interested in it

     

    - Vendors which I am interested in (Asrock, Asus, MSI, GB, EVGA and so on) mostly don't make boards for multi cpu for LN2, with OC functions and so on and they don't care about it, cause it's a different market.

     

    - if there are so "crazy" and expensive setups, I don't see any new fresh blood joining in OC world, I see the opposite- old users will say "that's too much"

     

    I can accept multi CPU if I can mount normal CPUs, like 4770K, 3770K, 3930K and so on, normal cpus which are not so expensive (in fact most of us buys per few cpus for binning), not server expensive staff. But there is a reason why Intel and AMD doesn't support it. They want to make more $ from server/PRO market and that's their right. I don't see a point to go into this area where we are in desktop/gamers/enthusiast market...

     

    In fact it's the same as creating some Povray or something "PRO" a benchmark, were Quadro/FireGL are much stronger than normal gpus. Let's do PRO CUP on this... where Titan cost 1K USD and Quadro based on GK110 cost 2-3 times more. I don't see any sense or point of this.

     

    If we want to make OC community grow - we have to look into gaming society, which in fact is the group who mostly uses OC for 24/7 and are more close to us than some server companies/enthusiasts. 4x Titan is hard for wallet, but 4x 780 GTX is not that tragic and it's easy to sell such gpus after PRO Cup stage and it can make interest among gamers. Multi CPU for sure won't do that.

    I am totally for banning multi cpus stages. It's not our market. From one hand we are made to OC "mainstream" rig (3DMark06 stage - I don't mean that I am against it, hw isn't that expensive and easy to sell after OC) but on the other hand we will be made to bench rigs unavailable for us to buy in retail shops (price) and which have almost nothing in common with OC.

×
×
  • Create New...