Rauf Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 It’s about time, don’t you think? We now have many 3D-benchmarks which are actually 99% CPU-bound. And it is kind of frustrating to see some of the elites submit with multiple accounts using the same golden CPUs, taking up all the high points. With the points-slope being so steep that it only gives good points to the top 3 submissions, hwbot becomes just a battle between Asus and Gigabyte. I love the battle, but keep the submissions to one account please! Examples: Dancop`s 3DMark06 score: 65476 marks with a GeForce GTX 980 Ti Hiwa`s 3DMark06 score: 65315 marks with a GeForce GTX 980 Ti ^^most likely same CPU Dinos22`s Unigine Heaven - Xtreme Preset score: 10523.75 DX11 Marks with a GeForce GTX 1080 TeamAU`s Unigine Heaven - Xtreme Preset score: 10413.28 DX11 Marks with a GeForce GTX 1080 ^^Can’t be sure but probably same CPU Dancop`s Unigine Heaven - Xtreme Preset score: 10448.51 DX11 Marks with a GeForce GTX 1080 http://hwbot.org/submission/3234937_toolius_unigine_heaven___xtreme_preset_2x_geforce_gtx_1080_10299.56_dx11_marks ^^Probably same CPU These are examples, maybe they are not all true, but most likely some are. And I DO NOT say that they are wrong or do not follow the rules. My point is that it isn’t exactly fair and the rules need to be changed so that they reflect the original purpose of the rules; One golden piece of hw should not be used by multiple accounts in the same benchmark. So my idea is just to extend the hw-sharing rule to both CPU and GPU for Aquamark, 3D01, 3D03, 3D05, 3D06, Unigine. Actually, since we have physics tests for the newer 3Dmarks and CPU is not at all unimportant for at least 720P catzilla, why don’t we extend the hw-sharing rule to both CPU and GPU for all 3D-benchmarks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 12, 2016 Crew Share Posted July 12, 2016 Like you mentioned Tobias, we can assume or think it is probably the same hardware being used... We have discussed this phenomena a lot of times in the past and indeed it there is no denial with these legacy benchies it is more who has the fastest subplatform iso the GPU... Maybe for the cooperate benchers indeed a team account might help a lot, but where does one draw the line? I bench with your CPU and clock it to just 6600, while you do a full 6700 run... Still the same cpu ? In the Rookies we even have university teams participating with 5-10 benchers using identical hardware. Some of their top scores look very similar (CPU+:- 30-60Mhz off, GPu's same freq difference) Maybe we need to program e.g. memory modules with our nickname and make submissions more personalized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sinebrychof Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Rauf has a point here. The rules are quite loose from different aspects when it comes to this. If you remember der8auer and dancop bencing together when the first crazy 6700ks were published they posted submissions done on same rig and OS, yes the rules technically allow this but some may find it irritating as the line is not so clear to everyone what is allowed and what is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 12, 2016 Crew Share Posted July 12, 2016 Well the rules are clear if you have a team session: you can all submit, but only one submission for the same benchmarks... The issue is people tend to bend or even break the rules... Many teams will have a grouped session for Team Cup, sharing platforms, just different CPU's for 2d and for 3D other GPUs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauf Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Like you mentioned Tobias, we can assume or think it is probably the same hardware being used... We have discussed this phenomena a lot of times in the past and indeed it there is no denial with these legacy benchies it is more who has the fastest subplatform iso the GPU... Maybe for the cooperate benchers indeed a team account might help a lot, but where does one draw the line? I bench with your CPU and clock it to just 6600, while you do a full 6700 run... Still the same cpu ? In the Rookies we even have university teams participating with 5-10 benchers using identical hardware. Some of their top scores look very similar (CPU+:- 30-60Mhz off, GPu's same freq difference) Maybe we need to program e.g. memory modules with our nickname and make submissions more personalized You assume people will break the rules and cheat. Yes, easily verifiable rules are optimal, but is the alternative better? People can just as easily cheat with sharing a GPU for 3D-benchmark, why don't we allow that as well? If there is one thing the top dogs know it is which persons have good cpus, so I actually think that CPUs are harder to share than GPUs. I can't see any reason not to do this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Rauf has a point here. The rules are quite loose from different aspects when it comes to this. If you remember der8auer and dancop bencing together when the first crazy 6700ks were published they posted submissions done on same rig and OS, yes the rules technically allow this but some may find it irritating as the line is not so clear to everyone what is allowed and what is not. How can you be sure? Doesn't skylake benefit from 1.85-2.00v? Does a guy that literally bins for all of hwbot possibly have more than 2-3 good cpus? Have we even seen his best yet? Can't enforce something you can't prove. Unless you were there there is no way to be 100% sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 12, 2016 Crew Share Posted July 12, 2016 You assume people will break the rules and cheat. Yes, easily verifiable rules are optimal, but is the alternative better? People can just as easily cheat with sharing a GPU for 3D-benchmark, why don't we allow that as well? If there is one thing the top dogs know it is which persons have good cpus, so I actually think that CPUs are harder to share than GPUs. If we let this happen, you will just see teams/individuals with the most time and money top all the rest because they can run and share hardware... mayube this is already happening, though it will be quickly clear this is not the way to appraoch this. 3D is 3D, if you use the same CPU it is no biggie... sharing GPUs nope sorry... snowball effect in full motion... 2D if you share CPU and you up similar scores we will be watching your every move... Team sessions are slightly different and hardware may be shared, but the scores have to be diffused as well... score sharing is not done... Selling scores is permanent ban too... To sum it up, IF each individual/team plays it fair, this means according the rules and with respect for the competitors/teams we wouldn't need all these rules anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Can't enforce something you can't prove. This and nothing else. It's been discussed before. Do I do it? Nope. Do I approve of it or like it? Nope. Do I encourage it? Nope. Can I do anything about it? Not really. I can try to be a good influence, but the moral/ethical high ground is a hard sell sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oj0 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 First world problems... I wish I was geographically close enough to my team mates for this to be an issue for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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